charging infrastructure supporting NACS

[dgpcolorado]

Regarding this chatter about different versions of Superchargers (e.g. v2 or below) not being capable of talking CCS's protocols, is this documented or reported by an credible source somewhere? I've heard this in other circles but also don't know the source and didn't bother asking, partly due to lack of time and interest.

It would create quite a bit of confusion when automakers signed onto NACS have a NACS to CCS1 adapter that works have to give the caveat that you need to go to v3 or newer Supercharger. How is Joe Average EV driver supposed to know this? They'll see the branding, typical look of the stalls and units, etc. and wouldn't have a clue. I have no idea how to tell nor do I care since I've never had a car that could use them anyway.

Or, will all US Superchargers be v3 or greater by then or will older ones be retrofitted to talk CCS?

Re: GB/T et al., https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... -y.246571/ is a good summary. This is before Tesla named their plug/standard NACS. The author calls it TPC.

Since not all Supercharger Stations will be available to Ford, GM and other car drivers, my presumption is that only the stations that are open to them will appear on their car navigation screens or phone apps. Others would show as closed or not available, if they are displayed at all. There was never any suggestion that all stations would be open to non Tesla cars.

On Tesla cars, navigation displays twenty or so Supercharger Stations in the area, the number of stalls available updated in real time, a rough idea of the wait time if the station is full (short wait, long wait}, and gives turn by turn instructions to get to the chosen station, as well as estimated battery percentage on arrival updated in real time, along with a precise pin location on the map. How much of that Ford and GM will do with their navigation remains to be seen.

Even some heavily used V3 Supercharger Stations may be unavailable to non Tesla drivers. When the Ford and GM announcements were made, the number of Supercharger stalls discussed, about 12,000 IIRC, was far fewer than the number of stalls available, even V3 stalls. Hence my guess — that's all it is — that not all V3 stations will be open to non Tesla cars.

Despite the crowds at a small number of urban stations, most Supercharger Stations are lightly used most of the time. By allowing use by other car brands, Tesla will get more revenue from existing assets, which will allow them to expand the network even faster than they are doing already.

[dmacarthur]

Despite the crowds at a small number of urban stations, most Supercharger Stations are lightly used most of the time.

There is a 16-stall Tesla station near us, maximum number of cars seen charging there over the past few years: 4, ever, usually one or none. The next nearest Tesla station is over 75 miles away, so the premise that Tesla is better suited to traveling is false at least around here- between this Tesla station and the next one there are multiple CCS/Chademo chargers. Fewer stalls per station but way more convenient locations.

[dgpcolorado]

Despite the crowds at a small number of urban stations, most Supercharger Stations are lightly used most of the time.

There is a 16-stall Tesla station near us, maximum number of cars seen charging there over the past few years: 4, ever, usually one or none. The next nearest Tesla station is over 75 miles away, so the premise that Tesla is better suited to traveling is false at least around here- between this Tesla station and the next one there are multiple CCS/Chademo chargers. Fewer stalls per station but way more convenient locations.

I guess I don't understand your point. Seventy-five miles is a trivial distance for any modern EV when traveling long distance, assuming that it is in the direction one wants to go. For local use, by those without home charging, sure — having convenient locations is helpful. For road trips, one wants stations located every 50 to 100 miles along major routes. I live in a remote rural mountain location, a hundred miles from the nearest Interstate highway, and the nearest Supercharger Station is thirty miles away. I don't use it save for returning from road trips to get the last bit of charge to make it home.

I hope that, eventually, DCFC stations will be as ubiquitous as gas stations are now so that most freeway exits will have several to choose from.

I have some experience with road trips, having done more than 100,000 miles of long trips, of my total of 153,000 miles, over the last seven years. 431 different Supercharger Stations in 22 states and 2 provinces, most recently 4500 miles in May to Oregon (ninth routine family visit) and four national parks in Alberta and BC. The difference in Supercharger Station coverage seven years ago and now is considerable and it has been fun to experience.

I hope that I'm stating the obvious when I point out that road tripping in an EV is quite different from doing so in an ICE car. In an EV, one wants to charge just enough to make the next fast charge station, plus a safety buffer of perhaps 20% in case of unexpected weather issues. Then charge only enough to make the next stop. The reason is that cars charge much more quickly when near empty and slow as they fill. It is more time efficient to fast charge only during the rapid part of the charge curve. That means more short charge stops rather than fewer, much longer, charge stops. Level 2 destination charging to near full overnight is also helpful because it means skipping several fast charge stops the next morning.


Back on topic: On May 25th the Ford CEO said “This is great news for our customers who will have unprecedented access to the largest network of fast-chargers in the U.S. and Canada with 12,000+ Tesla Superchargers plus 10,000+ fast-chargers already in the BlueOval Charge Network.” At the time, there were about 2004 open Supercharger Stations with about 21,400 stalls. Since 12,000+ stalls is fewer than the total, 21,400, and far fewer than the number of stalls that will be active next year when the adapters are available, my assumption is that Ford (and GM and others) will have access to only part of the Supercharger network, at least to begin with.

For the record: In North America, Tesla currently has 2094 open Supercharger Stations, with 22,387 stalls. There are 171 stations under construction and 318 stations with permits issued but not under construction, so far as has been observed (source: supercharge.info). The number of Supercharger Stations and stalls continues to increase rapidly.

Adding to this is the report today that seven major automakers now plan a joint venture to build 30,000 stalls in USA and Canada:

G.M. and Other Automakers Will Build 30,000 Electric Vehicle Chargers

[dmacarthur]

I guess I don't understand your point. Seventy-five miles is a trivial distance for any modern EV when traveling long distance, assuming that it is in the direction one wants to go.

My point is that I might not even be going in the direction of the next Tesla stations- not everyone travels the same routes. If you are going anywhere else there will be both CCS and ChadeMo stations available but not Tesla. They got the numbers right, and the speed, but not the convenient locations. Most of my road trips in the last 5 years have NOT been toward Tesla stations but the sprinkling of other DCFCs along the various routes is making things easier.

[henrydehoja]

"GM, BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mercedes and Stellantis to build EV charging network"
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/compani ... r-AA1ermRz

Looks like they'll be including both NACS and CCS plugs.

[cwerdna]

"GM, BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mercedes and Stellantis to build EV charging network"
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/compani ... r-AA1ermRz

Looks like they'll be including both NACS and CCS plugs.

Yeah, I posted about that development over at https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=632830#p632830 but good to have it here too.

[Flyct]

I guess I don't understand your point. Seventy-five miles is a trivial distance for any modern EV when traveling long distance, assuming that it is in the direction one wants to go.

My point is that I might not even be going in the direction of the next Tesla stations- not everyone travels the same routes. If you are going anywhere else there will be both CCS and ChadeMo stations available but not Tesla. They got the numbers right, and the speed, but not the convenient locations. Most of my road trips in the last 5 years have NOT been toward Tesla stations but the sprinkling of other DCFCs along the various routes is making things easier.

But Tesla owners currently can not only use NACS for fast charging but can use CSS for DC fast charging and NACS or J1772 for L1 or L2 destination chargers with supplied adaptor.

After having lived with J1772 and CHAdeMo with our Nissan leafs for 7 years and now having a Tesla there is no comparison. Hopefully Nissan will jump on the NACS bandwagon and NACS chargers will be built with cords long enough to comfortably reach other brand cars.

[cwerdna]

But Tesla owners currently can not only use NACS for fast charging but can use CSS for DC fast charging and NACS or J1772 for L1 or L2 destination chargers with supplied adaptor.

After having lived with J1772 and CHAdeMo with our Nissan leafs for 7 years and now having a Tesla there is no comparison. Hopefully Nissan will jump on the NACS bandwagon and NACS chargers will be built with cords long enough to comfortably reach other brand cars.

Not all Tesla (Model S and beyond) drivers can use CCS. Their vehicle may need a retrofit and they will definitely need an adapter (https://shop.tesla.com/product/ccs-combo-1-adapter) in either case.

For may, see https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=615350#p615350 and https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-6252144, for example.

Nissan did announce they're going to NACS for Ariya and future EVs: https://usa.nissannews.com/en-US/releas ... -ev-models.

[kamini10]

The charging infrastructure supporting NACS (New-Age Clean Energy Solutions) is nothing short of revolutionary. As we embrace sustainable technologies, a robust charging network is pivotal for the widespread adoption of electric vehicles and clean energy solutions. NACS envisions a future where eco-friendly transportation is accessible to all, and this charging infrastructure is the backbone of that vision. By investing in and expanding this network, we pave the way for a greener, healthier planet, reducing our carbon footprint and ensuring a sustainable tomorrow for generations to come. Let's unite in our efforts to build and support this essential infrastructure for a cleaner, brighter future.

[henrydehoja]

The charging infrastructure supporting NACS (New-Age Clean Energy Solutions) is nothing short of revolutionary.

This topic is actually about the North American Charging Standard (NACS), or Tesla connector.

Feel free to visit the links shown in the above posts for more information.