Any V2G or V2H charger available yet for US?

This is an excellent summary of current V2X capabilities;
https://www.dcbel.energy/blog/2023/01/04/new-year-new-bidirectional-cars-2023-edition/
It appears to me that the Ford Lightning's implementation of is limited currently to V2L/V2H capabilities only. The attached link indicates that the future GM approach could have the same limitations. For true V2X/DES implementation with solar on-grid capabilities, it seems the CCS protocols are needed to support bidirectionality - or a bidirectional J-1772 (AC based) converter needs to be part of the EVs on-board system.
PM me if you want more information.

Cheers Mark. Good summary.

Enphase announced a bidirectional charger earlier this year. I just stumbled across the announcement earlier this week.

Given that we're using their micro inverters, theirs would be an option we'll consider.

https://enphase.com/ev-chargers/bidirectional

Yea looks amazing, assuming it materializes.

Hi folks, Justin from dcbel here to share a news update with all of you: the r16 Home Energy Station just became the first certified residential bidirectional DC electric vehicle charger in the US.

Check out the press release and feel free to ask me any questions: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/dcbels-residential-bidirectional-dc-charger-120000363.html

You might have seen it on your news feed (if you’re not already following the dcbel LinkedIn page, I encourage you to do so! ) but I wanted to share the great news with this group, it is now official, the dcbel r16 has officially received UL 2231 and 9741 certifications making it the first certified residential bidirectional DC EVSE in the US!

Thanks Ben.

Happy to see more entrants to this and you appear to be a few steps ahead of Enphase.
Any word on availability in NJ?

djd

BenjaminT said:

You might have seen it on your news feed (if you’re not already following the dcbel LinkedIn page, I encourage you to do so! ) but I wanted to share the great news with this group, it is now official, the dcbel r16 has officially received UL 2231 and 9741 certifications making it the first certified residential bidirectional DC EVSE in the US!

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I already have a rooftop solar system working since mid-2022. I have a central SolarEdge inverter. I need a certified bidirectional charger. Anything in the pipeline?

It seems that prices for 2020-2022 Nissan Leaf Plus are going down fairly quickly. Is there a glut of them because people no longer want CHAdeMO?

curro said:

It seems that prices for 2020-2022 Nissan Leaf Plus are going down fairly quickly. Is there a glut of them because people no longer want CHAdeMO?

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Nissan had their chance at V2X with the CHAdeMO protocols enabled. I've purchased two Leafs partly because I'd hope Nissan would embrace DC based bidirectionality - did not happen.
I'm wondering if dcbel/Enphase will even commercialize with a CHAdeMO option - don't believe it makes sense anymore. Personally, I'm looking at other EV options and might sell my 2021 SV. Don't get me wrong - it's been a great little EV, but I've got to move on :mrgreen:

Apparently, outside the US, meaning in Japan and/or Europe there are CHAdeMO compatibility bidirectional chargers at a reasonable price (less than $1000) but they would not work with the US electrical system

I'm waiting for a solar based hybrid inverter with gen backup and V2G/V2H functionality as the main "battery". dcbel originally advertised both CHAdeMO and CCS bidirectionality, but not sure what they are supporting at this point.

Supposedly this company has some of the original patents in bidirectional charging:

https://nuvve.com/

But what we, residential users, get: NADA for the time being!

Nuvve is quite knowledgeable about aggregation of EVs of all types for virtual power plants. Our company worked with them on proposals for several years. I don't believe they have every focused on residential "microgrids" using EVs as energy storage. Their partnership with Wallbox is likely the exception, but until they integrate solar into the inverter (with gen backup), I'm just not interested.

Marktm said:

Nuvve is quite knowledgeable about aggregation of EVs of all types for virtual power plants. Our company worked with them on proposals for several years. I don't believe they have every focused on residential "microgrids" using EVs as energy storage. Their partnership with Wallbox is likely the exception, but until they integrate solar into the inverter (with gen backup), I'm just not interested.

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Copy. Keep us posted on your progress.

If nothing specific comes for the Nissan Leaf by like mid-2024 I think I am going to give up on the whole using an EV for V2H and look at some emergency battery solutions from Ecoflow and the like (~ $7,000 + installation). Budget wise this second option might not be still very appealing so I might consider other less expensive options or do nothing.

Here is information on what Enphase is doing for bidirectional charging.

https://enphase.com/download/bidirectional-ev-charger-white-paper

This is link to a YouTube video talking about the upcoming, Enphase bidirectional charging system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V628rHwUfYE

When I called Enphase. I was told unit should be available March of 2024.

Our home has Enphase solar and the latest P5 battery backup.
But the backup will only last 24hrs without sunlight.
When I saw the video on the bidirectional charger, I started looking for a 2021 LEAF SL Plus.
Found a CPO car with 22k miles and one owner. Paid market value and happy with purchase.
Once the BD charger is installed, we will have an additional 5 days of backup battery available.
To buy that much more in backup batteries would cost well over 45k.

Now we have more buffer in backup, coming soon, and a car that can be used for daily runaround use.

Video is well worth the 40+ minutes of watching as it is a great overview of AC coupled EV bidirectionality - V2H/V2G capabilities.

Some comments:
- Nissan/CHAdeMO claims to support DC bidirectionality with "approved" Nissan equipment. Hopefully Enphase will get this approval so that battery warranties can be retained. Note that this was from conversations with Nissan when I purchase my 2021 SV+ (new), so I'd certainly recommend getting an update from Nissan specifically for Enphase equipment - when available.
- I've been told by dcbel for over 2 years that they will have a similar, but DC based "microgrid" system - to work with directly with the DC solar panels. It seems the major issues are not the technology, but "certification" of the equipment, that I'm guessing is code related AND then with the utility providers to sanction the actual hookup to specific providers. Hopefully, Enphase will not have the same issues - might be AC coupling can expedite this??
- At present, it seems NACS and CCS are "duking it out". I wonder how the seemingly transition to NACS will affect transitioning to true V2X capabilities? Tesla has recently made commitments to V2 something in a couple of years. Although I've recently purchased a Model YLR, I'm not holding my breath on this one. IMO, CHAdeMO is likely dead unless Nissan can make a case for being the only OEM with true DC based V2X providers - don't think that's likely at all having waited for almost 7 years :shock:
- My hope is Enphase can make this happen as I'm ready to install solar - but only with true, commercial V2X capabilities.
- BTW, the Ford Lightning V2H backup system is unidirectional from the DC battery, so does not have true "microgrid" capabilities. Ford is alluding to a V2G capable system, but again, CCS protocols would seem to be an issue (just my guess).
- Lucid claims to have AC bidirectionality in their charger system. Does anyone have any experience with Lucid's system for V2X capabilities??
- As the aggregation of multiple millions of EVs starts to be more fully implemented as true distributed energy resources, this massive energy storage could provide sorely need grid stability and resilience - so kudos to Enphase if they can take the first step of providing home microgrids

Great topic and info. Love Enphase too. Hopefully V2H bidirectionality is in the near future, with reliable off grid functionality. Two points. The "packetized electricity" approach makes sense in an off grid (or power out) as a way to manage energy flow in and out of the vehicle. With a second vehicle or stationary battery it makes even more sense. https://www.us-ignite.org/apps/packetized-energy-management/ One would simply set some priorities such as vehicle SOC and critical appliances, provide a weather forecast, and let the system figure out what to do (request a generator if need be). The other point is more of a blue sky thing. Why use the DC charging port at all for V2X? Its overkill. A 20 or 30 amp DC connection to the traction battery makes more sense to me. Separate contactors inside the battery enclosure, but still under control of the traction BMS. Cheap to implement, plenty of current capacity for solar charging.

So some potential progress from Enphase. That's good to hear. I just did a search and I found this from SolarEdge, which is the inverter I have:

https://investors.solaredge.com/news-releases/news-release-details/intersolar-2023-solaredge-unveils-new-bi-directional-dc-coupled

I am not sure what this news means in practical terms, wait another two years?

curro said:

So some potential progress from Enphase. That's good to hear. I just did a search and I found this from SolarEdge, which is the inverter I have:

https://investors.solaredge.com/news-releases/news-release-details/intersolar-2023-solaredge-unveils-new-bi-directional-dc-coupled

I am not sure what this news means in practical terms, wait another two years?

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Very interesting! They are saying late 2024. Thoughts. It is still a string inverter, and that has drawbacks when compared to ac-coupled panels (Enphase) if your roof situation is not ideal. I could not see that grid feed from the vehicle battery was an option--but this should only be a software issue. They have also very cleverly got around NEC limits on how much inverter you can feed into the main load center--see the description at 10:36. Note that the Solaredge is only going to pull 15 amps or so from the car--so the CCS port is still overkill.

Killer off grid system though. 50 kwh EV storage. That is huge. The Google open thread communications looks pretty cool too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmpdG3stPIA

Companies like Sungoldpower offer portable and fixed LiFePo4 home storage batteries* that look to be much more affordable than the Tesla powerwall, and I see that many brands can be recharged from a level 2 EV charging station.

Would it be possible to charge LiFePo4 backup batteries directly from the charge port of the Leaf, if one had the right connector?

Given the Gen 2 Leaf's bidirectional on board charging capabilities, this seems like it could be the basis for a low cost, indirect V2H arrangement.

Last year our rural neighborhood lost power (also [well] water) for 5 consecutive days. Had we had, say 10kwh of home storage, to be periodically refilled from our EV, we could have been alright.

* https://sungoldpower.com/products/2-x-5-12kwh-powerwall-lifepo4-lithium-battery-sg48100m?currency=USD&variant=41268443480201&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&stkn=c51574c77f00&gclid=Cj0KCQjw9fqnBhDSARIsAHlcQYQKdTdyxIzTUAUYDqn5BeLlQgS6JYDxv_VW1VIbjWk-zHDLdNKtBoMaAkfqEALw_wcB