Eight bars on a 2017 Leaf battery (in warranty)

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Nords

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 11, 2018
Messages
47
Location
Oahu, Hawaii.
We’re the third owners on a 2017 Leaf which has 26K miles. We bought it in 2019 (with 11 bars) and we’ve had no other problems besides the relatively rapid loss of capacity.

This month the Li-ion battery dropped to eight bars. According to our warranty manual, Nissan is required to repair or replace the battery.

As much as I’d like to get a brand-new battery (maybe even more than the original 30 KWh in the same form factor), I can understand that the company might want to offer alternatives.

Here’s the verbiage in the 2017 warranty book:
“… the lithium-ion battery is also warranted against capacity loss below nine bars of capacity as shown on the vehicle’s battery capacity level gauge for 96 months or 100K miles, whichever comes first.
This warranty covers any repairs needed to return battery capacity to a level of nine remaining bars on the vehicle’s battery capacity level gauge. If possible, the lithium-ion battery components will be repair or replaced, and the original lithium-ion battery will be returned to the vehicle. If necessary, the lithium-ion battery will be replaced with either a new or remanufactured lithium-ion battery. Any repair or replacement made under this Lithium-Ion Battery Capacity Coverage may not return your lithium-ion battery to an “as new” condition with all 12 battery capacity bars, but it will provide the vehicle with a capacity level of nine bars or more on the battery capacity level gauge.
This Lithium-Ion Battery Capacity Coverage is subject to the exclusions listed under the heading “WHAT IS NOT COVERED.”

Because we’re the third owners, we have no idea what’s happened to the Li-ion battery that might be considered an exclusion. I’m in Hawaii (Oahu) and the first two owners were on Kauai and Oahu, so I doubt that cold weather (-13F) or hot weather (>120F) was a problem. The car’s only had a handful of L3 charges.

Is there any way to figure out other potential exclusion issues from an OBD-II code listing, or LeafSpy? If it helps I can supply LeafSpy screenshots.

Is there anything else I want to discuss with the dealer?

What’s been your experience with warranty repairs to your Li-ion battery?
 
The battery warranty follows the car--not the owner--so you should be OK. It sounds like you have the 30 kWh version, which is notoriously bad for degradation. Even better, they will most likely replace it with a 40 kWh version (there are no other "upgrade" options).
I would head straight to the nearest Nissan dealer and open up a warranty claim/case. Good luck!
 
You will need to have NTB18-039 / PC630 applied first, if it hasn't been already.

See https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=584818#p584818.
 
Stanton said:
The battery warranty follows the car--not the owner--so you should be OK. It sounds like you have the 30 kWh version, which is notoriously bad for degradation. Even better, they will most likely replace it with a 40 kWh version (there are no other "upgrade" options).
Yep, it’s the 30 KWh version. We have a service appointment for 8 December.

cwerdna said:
You will need to have NTB18-039 / PC630 applied first, if it hasn't been already.

See https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=584818#p584818.
I’ll have to dig through our receipts files, but I’m pretty sure we did this for both of our Leafs in late 2019. Thanks for pointing out that one— I’ll ask the question again when we talk with the service manager.
 
cwerdna said:
You will need to have NTB18-039 / PC630 applied first, if it hasn't been already.
I tracked down my notes from the Leaf's last service call in January 2020, and back then the mechanic confirmed that PC630 had already been applied.
 
Nords said:
cwerdna said:
You will need to have NTB18-039 / PC630 applied first, if it hasn't been already.
I tracked down my notes from the Leaf's last service call in January 2020, and back then the mechanic confirmed that PC630 had already been applied.

Two years ago, yeah, you are good. You won the battery lottery, time for a new 40 kWh pack. :D
 
Just out of curiosity, could you post some LeafSpy results or at least just the SOH value when the last bar dropped? TIA.
 
goldbrick said:
Just out of curiosity, could you post some LeafSpy results or at least just the SOH value when the last bar dropped? TIA.
Sure. If I’ve done this right, here are the links to LeafSpy screenshots:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1QUY_eQUF8sMCMASBdKTquSwjRFMUTt78?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bbXWIEYsKtJ48FmOik8Sk4R2qzlxO66a/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1S3yntTn02t7b7j9uuD6LBNioImdJtrwn/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VExJJ5YY_M9BINt_bwl1r7yyvEBkTtAp/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KnWuUxsDYEWaj08UKkxLkeQQX1WGvX2q/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1N6Qy-QHrdQqXzXfEEmHWaWjOS7KvhFcc/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ymx6x-tCxqrdAJ9VHUBIfSNy7ETlAJ74/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BAVNFXmqPxOhbBhAG_0IuLTsKZbkiLWm/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XaIzNc_itcHrjG21zw9zKcdadkqdwsEU/view?usp=sharing

(EDIT: I'm getting e-mails from people asking for permission to view these screenshots. The links above have already been displayed as images by knightmb just a few posts later in this thread. You don't need to ask me for permission to see the photos in this folder... just keep scrolling in this thread.)
 
Nords said:
goldbrick said:
Just out of curiosity, could you post some LeafSpy results or at least just the SOH value when the last bar dropped? TIA.
Sure. If I’ve done this right, here are the links to LeafSpy screenshots:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1QUY_eQUF8sMCMASBdKTquSwjRFMUTt78?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bbXWIEYsKtJ48FmOik8Sk4R2qzlxO66a/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1S3yntTn02t7b7j9uuD6LBNioImdJtrwn/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VExJJ5YY_M9BINt_bwl1r7yyvEBkTtAp/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KnWuUxsDYEWaj08UKkxLkeQQX1WGvX2q/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1N6Qy-QHrdQqXzXfEEmHWaWjOS7KvhFcc/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ymx6x-tCxqrdAJ9VHUBIfSNy7ETlAJ74/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BAVNFXmqPxOhbBhAG_0IuLTsKZbkiLWm/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XaIzNc_itcHrjG21zw9zKcdadkqdwsEU/view?usp=sharing

I can post photo links for these if you give me permission :)
 
knightmb said:
Nords said:
goldbrick said:
Just out of curiosity, could you post some LeafSpy results or at least just the SOH value when the last bar dropped? TIA.
Sure. If I’ve done this right, here are the links to LeafSpy screenshots:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1QUY_eQUF8sMCMASBdKTquSwjRFMUTt78?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bbXWIEYsKtJ48FmOik8Sk4R2qzlxO66a/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1S3yntTn02t7b7j9uuD6LBNioImdJtrwn/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VExJJ5YY_M9BINt_bwl1r7yyvEBkTtAp/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KnWuUxsDYEWaj08UKkxLkeQQX1WGvX2q/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1N6Qy-QHrdQqXzXfEEmHWaWjOS7KvhFcc/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ymx6x-tCxqrdAJ9VHUBIfSNy7ETlAJ74/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BAVNFXmqPxOhbBhAG_0IuLTsKZbkiLWm/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XaIzNc_itcHrjG21zw9zKcdadkqdwsEU/view?usp=sharing

I can post photo links for these if you give me permission :)
Yes please! I just sent you Editor access to the folder.

(EDIT: I'm getting e-mails from people asking for permission to view these screenshots. The links above have already been displayed as images by knightmb just a few posts later in this thread. You don't need to ask me for permission to see the photos in this folder... just keep scrolling in this thread.)
 
Nords said:
knightmb said:
I can post photo links for these if you give me permission :)
Yes please! I just sent you Editor access to the folder.
Ok, I'll link them below. I blurred out part of the VIN on one of them for privacy reasons for you. I also resized them so they fit in the forum format. :mrgreen:
 
Images Linked Below via Imgur

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MnRXvCy.png
 
Amazing: another 30kWh pack that lost 4 capacity bars before 30k miles!
The cells are a bit unbalanced, although a 20mV spread isn't all that bad (but at fairly high SOC).
 
Stanton said:
... before 30k miles!
The cells are a bit unbalanced, although a 20mV spread isn't all that bad (but at fairly high SOC).
We're two retirees on a 30x40-mile island who travel off-island for 3-4 months annually, so the car averages about 4000 miles per year with us. I think the first two owners used it as a commuter, but again it's hard to do a high-mileage commute around here. Maybe the capacity drop is more about the age of the battery than the mileage or the number of charges.

I'm guessing that it's a better use of Nissan's time/labor costs to replace an entire battery pack and recycle those cells somewhere else rather than try to swap out (or jumper out) a couple of bad cells.

Even if we had to pay money to replace the battery, it still seems like a cost-effective way to dramatically extend the car's life. We're quite happy with everything the car does for us, and the gasoline savings would pay for a new battery every decade or so. I don't know what part would die next in a tropical climate with low annual mileage and the regular manufacturer's maintenance-- the audio speakers? the air-conditioning compressor?
 
Nords said:
Even if we had to pay money to replace the battery, it still seems like a cost-effective way to dramatically extend the car's life. We're quite happy with everything the car does for us, and the gasoline savings would pay for a new battery every decade or so. I don't know what part would die next in a tropical climate with low annual mileage and the regular manufacturer's maintenance-- the audio speakers? the air-conditioning compressor?
If my wife's Leaf is any indication, you'll be much happier with the 40kWh pack, as they seem to be a lot tougher than I thought it would be given how my wife abuses her Leaf. :lol:
 
Nords said:
I'm guessing that it's a better use of Nissan's time/labor costs to replace an entire battery pack and recycle those cells somewhere else rather than try to swap out (or jumper out) a couple of bad cells.
From personal experience, Nissan does not want to open up a battery pack (and they are definitely not in the "used cell" business). They really don't even want to sell entire battery packs--only cars.
Having said that, old Leafs make great (low maintenance) commuter cars...and that's coming from someone who has both replaced/upgraded their battery pack and (recently) replaced a weak/bad cell in that pack. You just happened to get one of those (really) bad 30 kWh packs, but you should be in good shape for a warranty replacement.
 
knightmb said:
If my wife's Leaf is any indication, you'll be much happier with the 40kWh pack, as they seem to be a lot tougher than I thought it would be given how my wife abuses her Leaf. :lol:
Stanton said:
From personal experience, Nissan does not want to open up a battery pack (and they are definitely not in the "used cell" business). They really don't even want to sell entire battery packs--only cars.
Having said that, old Leafs make great (low maintenance) commuter cars...and that's coming from someone who has both replaced/upgraded their battery pack and (recently) replaced a weak/bad cell in that pack. You just happened to get one of those (really) bad 30 kWh packs, but you should be in good shape for a warranty replacement.
It's good to read this. We're having the conversation with the service manager in four days!
 
Welp, that was interesting.

Nissan’s working on it, but the warranty replacement might take over nine months. Yes, that’s not a typo: over 270 days.

The service department of our local dealer (Tony Nissan) was very helpful, and they said they’ve handled a number of these over the last few years. The tech was surprised to see only 26K on the odometer-- they usually get them at ~60K miles. They checked eight bars on the dashboard and ran additional scans to confirm that there were no exclusions. The battery has been assigned a J case number (their term) and the record has been forwarded to Nissan for the warranty.

Nissan doesn’t have an inventory and apparently builds these batteries as needed. Our Leaf is #19 in the manager’s queue, and the head of his line has been waiting since March. The three service managers sitting around the office already had over 50 Leafs waiting for new battery packs. One said that the dealer was promised three packs last month and they haven't arrived yet. They all agree that Nissan is having supply issues.

We’ll keep using the car and we’ll wait for the updates.
 
Then that means, provided no accidents happen between now and your new battery it will be like driving all those extra miles and then getting a new Leaf when the new battery is installed. Double the range, you can wail on the accelerator all the you want for fun. :lol:

The wait sucks, but if I knew that sometime next year I was going to get a *free* battery that was better and gave me more range, I would have no issue waiting for good things. :mrgreen:
 
knightmb said:
The wait sucks, but if I knew that sometime next year I was going to get a *free* battery that was better and gave me more range, I would have no issue waiting for good things. :mrgreen:
In another 10-15 years after this battery is replaced, we might even pay for a third battery.

My only regular commute with this car is a 35-mile round trip to the beach 2-3 times per week. Oahu's also building up a more robust charging infrastructure, so I don't mind driving across the island to my favorite surf shop.
 
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