Any V2G or V2H charger available yet for US?

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frontrangeleaf said:
Hey BenjaminT, glad to see you here.

We are installing a solar system this fall/early next year (in utility approval now, build pending) using REC panels and Enphase microinverters. Tesla Powerwall a likely upgrade looking beyond initial phase (enough battery to be useful, but no more than needed for minor outages, given that we own a Leaf SL+).

I understand your system is DC coupled only. Can you confirm?

If so, are you planning on an AC coupled version some time in the future?

Hi frontrangeleaf! The r16 has both. One output for AC, the other output for DC where you can choose between Chademo or CCS
 
BenjaminT said:
watchdoc said:
I wish we could get some specs from Fermata. The dcbel r16 looks promising as well. The only downfall I see with that unit so far is the 7.6kw of AC output from the inverter and the single MPPT only allowing 10 kw of solar. Curiously, the CCS version is double both those figures.

Its worth mentioning the original Nissan "power to home" unit sold in Japan was rated at 6kw and 30amps of output.

Hi watchdog - i hope you dont mind me jumping in here (I work for dcbel) but i wanted to share an update on the r16 home energy station. Here's a post we did a week ago with photos of our units heading off for their final testing. Happy to help answer any questions on the topic of V2H / V2G ! https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6999108743867105280

Thanks for participating. What's the timeline for initial installations and what's the timeline for nationwide rollout?
 
Hello folks,

I have been off this forum/topic for a while because the developments for North America are on a snail pace it seems to me.

I am getting interested again in V2H using a used Nissan Leaf (2018-2021 models) before the end of 2023 if the tax situation works for me. So far there are only two bidirectional chargers have achieved UL 9741 certification:

https://productiq.ulprospector.com/en/search?term=fftn

And, so far, they are aiming mostly at the commercial market, meaning 'don't bother us if you have just one home and one Nissan Leaf. Go away'! :-(

So, thinking "out of the box" for 'Plan B'. Go "old school" with this:

https://www.evextend.com/240V-Backup-Power-System.php

+

https://www.evextend.com/Nissan-Leaf-Inverter-Kit-2018-2021.php

to experience this:

"Reviews/Testimonials
"I'm incredibly happy with my EVEX 6002W kit, and the entire experience working with Eric at EV Extend (along with a local licensed electrician) through the installation. My wife and I are in California, where we have the 'joy' of wildfire-related power disconnects initiated by our utility company. We have a large built-in refrigerator with dual 14A compressors that serves as an emergency backup for people with medical needs on our block, and when both units come on at the same time they can easily draw 6000W surge current, which is way more than portable generators or standard inverters can handle. By getting an EVEX-6002W with a 4 battery configuration from Eric, I am able to recharge the entire system (while it's running) from my EVEX-1002N Nissan LEAF inverter kit, and handle a power outage of up to a week by tapping the 40kWh battery in my 2020 Nissan LEAF. In fact, since our outages are quite localized, I can even run off the local batteries long enough to drive my LEAF to a fast-charging station and get back home with another week 'in the tank'."
-- Daniel B., California"

I need to be able to start a 5 ton AC with these specs:

52715736352_be6cc4cd4b.jpg


Thoughts?
 
It is very frustrating that a robust V2G system has not yet made it to the market - especially one that is solar energy compatible so that a home can actually be supplied with backup power indefinitely - essentially a small "microgrid".

You asked for thoughts:
- It seems to me that the purpose of the "system" is to provide high start currents, and short intermittent high loads via a robust 6000W split phase inverter.
- For longer outages, the average power will be limited by the "charge" system selected.
- The system's energy will be limited by the Leaf's battery - 40 or 60 kWh nominal (less in reality).
- Note that even with the 48 volt system, the total usable energy of the 6000W system will be about 2.5 kWh (assuming lead acid batteries). At full inverter load, the batteries will likely be depleted in less than 20 minutes - with all system losses and protection of the batteries.
- I don't think the system will be capable of starting or running a 5 ton AC. The total amp draw shown is around 30 amps. At 230 VAC this is 6900 watts. The starting current will be higher. I live in South Texas and will use a small split unit AC for one room to provide comfort for a long term outage.

The testimonial of the two refrigerators is probably the best use case - high start currents with the average power of running both refrigerators being less than the EVEX "charge" system's capabilities.
 
Marktm said:
It is very frustrating that a robust V2G system has not yet made it to the market - especially one that is solar energy compatible so that a home can actually be supplied with backup power indefinitely - essentially a small "microgrid".

You asked for thoughts:
- It seems to me that the purpose of the "system" is to provide high start currents, and short intermittent high loads via a robust 6000W split phase inverter.
- For longer outages, the average power will be limited by the "charge" system selected.
- The system's energy will be limited by the Leaf's battery - 40 or 60 kWh nominal (less in reality).
- Note that even with the 48 volt system, the total usable energy of the 6000W system will be about 2.5 kWh (assuming lead acid batteries). At full inverter load, the batteries will likely be depleted in less than 20 minutes - with all system losses and protection of the batteries.
- I don't think the system will be capable of starting or running a 5 ton AC. The total amp draw shown is around 30 amps. At 230 VAC this is 6900 watts. The starting current will be higher. I live in South Texas and will use a small split unit AC for one room to provide comfort for a long term outage.

The testimonial of the two refrigerators is probably the best use case - high start currents with the average power of running both refrigerators being less than the EVEX "charge" system's capabilities.

Hello Marktm and thanks for your feedback. A couple of points:

1) According to https://www.evextend.com/240V-Backup-Power-System.php "6000W Split-phase Inverter/Charger with 18,000W 20-second surge capability". So this power surge would not be enough to start my AC you are saying?
2) I was thinking that with the EV Extend Inverter Kit and a fully charged 2019 Nissan Leaf (as an example) I could power the house for at least 12 hours or so (wild guess here, I have not done the detailed calculation)
 
Curro;
Best to talk with the EVEX guy to determine any limitations starting a large load - I'm not an electrical designer. But, If it did start, the unit might shutdown quickly due to the excessive amp draw. I'll bet they can help in that.
If your long term loads are within maybe 80-90% of the EVEX "charge" system, with no extended periods of intermittent loads, that depend on the 48V/6000W system, you might be OK with this system - just depends on how much you "tap into" the 6000W system.
The time you will have backup will be determined by the average load and which Leaf battery you end up with.
However, be aware that a 5 ton AC would probably run (if it did at all) less than 20 minutes (my best guess).
 
hi guys - timely discussion. my colleague moderates the reddit r/v2h forum where we try to answer as many questions as possible about these new energy applications from V2H to full home energy management. We're actually hosting a webinar tomorrow and looking to collect user questions for the AMA portion. No sales or hooks, we're just trying to inform the community during this exciting time for home energy - including an update on certifications.
 
Marktm, yes I do need to contact EV Extend about my particular situation.

Benjamin, any more details about this webinar? Is it on Zoom or similar and how one gets access?
 
curro said:
Marktm, yes I do need to contact EV Extend about my particular situation.

Benjamin, any more details about this webinar? Is it on Zoom or similar and how one gets access?

yes, you can register here: https://www.dcbel.space/ . We'll be live tomorrow at 2PM EST with the CEO of dcbel Marc Andre Forget answering questions that we gathered from Reddit - with a 15-20 min open Q&A session. Hope to see you there! Ben
 
BenjaminT said:
yes, you can register here: https://www.dcbel.space/ . We'll be live tomorrow at 2PM EST with the CEO of dcbel Marc Andre Forget answering questions that we gathered from Reddit - with a 15-20 min open Q&A session. Hope to see you there! Ben

Benjamin - would you PM me? I'd like to understand the Reddit space better. Already on too many forums :mrgreen:
 
BenjaminT said:
curro said:
Marktm, yes I do need to contact EV Extend about my particular situation.

Benjamin, any more details about this webinar? Is it on Zoom or similar and how one gets access?

yes, you can register here: https://www.dcbel.space/ . We'll be live tomorrow at 2PM EST with the CEO of dcbel Marc Andre Forget answering questions that we gathered from Reddit - with a 15-20 min open Q&A session. Hope to see you there! Ben

BenjaminT, unfortunately I was not able to participate in the webinar. Perhaps next opportunity.

Back in the late summer of 2021, when I was starting to research my options for solar panels, the dcbel solar panels+V2H system was not available to me in any realistic way.

Now that I already have a solar panel system (with a Solaredge HD Wave inverter) I am trying to figure out what are my lower cost options to allow for a V2H battery backup solution using a Nissan Leaf (2018 or 2019 years most likely). At this point, the long term cost/benefit of installing standalone rechargeable batteries does not attract me financially speaking.
 
Marktm said:
It is very frustrating that a robust V2G system has not yet made it to the market - especially one that is solar energy compatible so that a home can actually be supplied with backup power indefinitely - essentially a small "microgrid".

You asked for thoughts:
I live in South Texas and will use a small split unit AC for one room to provide comfort for a long term outage.

At your convenience maybe you can PM me regarding your "split unit AC" information. It is always good to look at various options during an outage. Thanks in advance.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Some V2H in a pinch.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thedriven.io/2022/01/31/vehicle-to-home-couple-rides-through-blackout-with-nissan-leaf-luck-and-ingenuity/amp/

Thanks for the link. I see what this couple in Australia did. Now a US company is offering a more "professional" solution here:

https://www.evextend.com/240V-Backup-Power-System.php

Coupled with this: The Nissan Leaf Gen 2 Inverter Kit https://www.evextend.com/Nissan-Leaf-Inverter-Kit-2018-2021.php

I would say for safety, insurance purposes, liability, etc. I would have to do all the set up by a licensed professional electrician (not so much DIY).
 
So far, in a future scenario I would purchase a used EV (in late 2023) that can do V2H for a budget of around $19K. I have narrowed my options to these:

* Nissan Leaf Plus (probably 2019 model)
* Chevrolet Bolt that I can buy for the above budget

The Bolt has thermal management for the batteries but zero experience with V2H. The Leaf has lots of V2H experience worldwide since 2011 or so but no thermal management for the batteries.
 
New Leaf owner here since Dec 2022 and I am waiting (somewhat) patiently for a V2x charger to become available.

Just learned that Enphase has one coming, supposedly in 2024.
https://enphase.com/ev-chargers/bidirectional

Our Solar array is already built on Enphase Combiner and IQ Inverters so this seems to be the best vertically integration option I’ve heard about so far. Although it’s still mostly in the form of a white paper. No idea what state the hardware is in.

🤞
 
The Enphase V2X/solar system combined with it's microinverter designs will offer an advantage for those that have sunlight obstructions periodically through the day with each panel being independent producers. I've been waiting literally years for dcbel to actually produce a viable, affordable V2X converter system that can incorporate solar. Now hoping Enphase will be able to pass the "certification" issues along with (hopefully) support from the utility providers. I don't know of any other EV except for the Nissan Leaf that has the DC port available (CHAdeMO) for bidirectionality. Quite sure that'll NOT be available on the Ariya. The Ford Lightning home backup system just does not make sense for those of us that want a true microgrid set up.
 
Curious. What’s fundamental differences in Fords implementation?

It’s a bit surprising to me how much more complicated this is than it seems on the surface. Meaning car is basically a big battery with wheels. Plenty of batteries exist that play nice with your house, solar, and the grid. What’s the key barrier here?

I assume a big one is lack of common communication or power management standard from the car side?
 
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