Battery upgrade: concerns about law and insurance

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Kaktor

Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2018
Messages
12
Motivated by Dala's new video (good job!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMMEooP3AZ0

Hi humans!

TL;DR: I wonder if you have concerns about insurance and government after upgrading your battery.

I mean, if you have an insurance, which "pays when it's your fault your own car got broken" (vollkasko = comprehensive cover?), they need to know you raised its value so they can properly replace it. Do you tell them?

Here in Germany, the same insurance company will also sell you the mandatory "we pay the things belonging to other people that you broke" (liability?) insurance. I am afraid that if something goes wrong, they will not pay, since I replaced the huge chunk with the angry pixies in it. Worst case would be a battery fire in a car-park, 10 cars and the floor burnt, and they find out I swapped my car to a different battery... I would not want to pay for that damage out of my own pocket :(

And as for government: my car's papers say 24kwh. Messing with essential car-bits will quickly void your car's operating license, getting you in huge trouble with the police. (Even putting in the wrong lightbulbs might be an "Eingriff in die Beleuchtungsanalge" and void your car's license and driving with a non-conforming car is super bad. Let alone having accidents with them.

I asked the local TÜV people. TÜV is like the UK's MOT I guess. While they simply do the mandatory bi-yearly technical checks, their engineers have the power to add addendums to your car's papers. Making modifications official is easy, if the part comes with a "general operating license" for your type of car (e.g. adding fog-lights to a Golf), but gets complicated if the modification is a one-off. They said, that it would require (among other tests) a electro-magnetic compatibility measurement which would put the whole car into a measuring-laboratory box and see if sends out EM-frequencies or is offended by anything sent at it. Insta 4-figures bill. Crazy.

So swapping in the same battery would probably be considered a replacement. No problem. but 24 kwh is meh.
Swapping in a bigger battery than came from the factory is therefore considered a major modification, which needs to be written into the car's papers by test-engineers after expensive tests. and then reported to the insurance.

Any Germans here, who already did it?
How's this done outside of Germany?
How are your customers doing it, Dala, Muxan?
Cheers!
chris :)
 
I can tell you about Finland,
If you upgrade to a bigger battery, you inform about this in a modified inspection (muutoskatsastus). This is normally done when changing stuff like wheel sizes, bigger battery etc. Since the newer battery is heavier, the kg amount added will remove kg from carrying capacity. For instance when upgrading from a 24->40kWh pack, 26kg is added to the car. This is a very simple process to do!

We also have a recertification process for high voltage system modifications (Korkeajännitemuutoskatsastus). This is very involving, but required when doing changes to how the high voltage bits operate. For instance after adding CCS to the LEAF, this process is needed.

Anyone from other countries can probably chip in and explain how it is there!
 
In Norway it is practically illegal to upgrade the battery. The Norwegian DMV require you to provide a statement from the car manufacturer that they approve of the installation. This is more or less impossible. Still, sometimes you get an upgraded battery if it has been replaced under warranty, for instance with Opel Ampera-e (the European version of Chevy Bolt). I am not sure what happens there.

For private individuals to upgrade the battery in a Leaf for instance, that is a no-go. There are a few who have done it, but that is just done without telling anyone about it. You can put in the same type of battery like 24 kWh to 24 kWh. But a 24 to 40 kWh conversion is not legal.

EV-conversions of ICEs are also banned here. There are a few of those as well which were converted before the ban.

The reasons for being so strict is partially because an EV-converted ICE-car caught fire on a ferry one time and the DMV realizing that they did not have the proper qualifications to inspect the HV-parts as I understand it.
 
In the USA, this would be about the same (quasi legally) like doing a fuel tank upgrade to a bigger size. As long as the new tank (or in this case battery) still meets the same safety standards (which for the battery it should since you are going from Nissan to Nissan), you wouldn't get into any trouble *legally* for it. Can't say what the insurance company would do or if they would insure it if they really understood what a battery upgrade is. Just means that any accident claims would be harder to get an increased payout for the more valuable, larger battery size.
 
Vandervecken said:
Has anyone figured out how this works in the US? Once you tell them "I did a thing", you can't exactly unsay it.

You would have a get a lawyer to clarify, but a long time ago some court lawsuits made it all the way to the Supreme Court about vehicle modification being illegal (car manufactures were pushing for this) but was struck down and today you have car shops that can do just about anything to your vehicle (engine upgrades, styling body modifications, etc.) and as long as some basic safety requirements are still met in some way, it's legal to drive and insure. That doesn't mean an insurance company can be forced to insure you and the definition of "road safe" is very flexible until challenged in court if lives are lost because of it.

My advice, the "I did a thing" is only an issue if that is causing some unsafe condition that could hurt or kill someone. That's why all the Leaf upgrades are mostly with Leaf batteries from Nissan and not a 3rd party company trying to sell duplicates of the pack in its OEM form.
 
knightmb said:
My advice, the "I did a thing" is only an issue if that is causing some unsafe condition that could hurt or kill someone. That's why all the Leaf upgrades are mostly with Leaf batteries from Nissan and not a 3rd party company trying to sell duplicates of the pack in its OEM form.
Agree with your last comment, but there's also that "don't ask, don't tell" aspect of these battery upgrades.
I have never been asked (by an insurer) if I replaced/upgraded my battery pack...and I'm not even sure they would understand what a "cell replacement" is (or why I did it) if I explained it.
 
[/quote]
My advice, the "I did a thing" is only an issue if that is causing some unsafe condition that could hurt or kill someone. That's why all the Leaf upgrades are mostly with Leaf batteries from Nissan and not a 3rd party company trying to sell duplicates of the pack in its OEM form.
[/quote]

And any attempts to make after-market packs should work strictly with non-ignitable cell chemistry--either LiFePo or LTO.
 
I think the main concern would be: once your car gets in a crash, the insurance isn't going lay for the upgrades you made. In the Netherlands you don't need to report these? That's why Muxsan has its business?

But I'm very careful about having the battery replaced: would the insurance pay out more, once you have replaced the battery? Or do they not look at this stuff? And when you get in a accident, you just get the markets worth? Not looking into the age or SOH from the battery.

That's why I think: I won't be replacing the battery, as long as it's not needed.
 
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