goldbrick
Posts: 1876
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

I see. I don't think I've ever had my Leaf under 7-9% SOC and normally I charge when I drop below 20% so that probably makes it pretty easy for me.

My Leaf is a purely in-town car and while I've done over 100 miles on a single charge (while staying within my self-imposed SOC limits) that is pretty uncommon. Most of my trips are 30 miles or less and for that, it is still just perfect. Hopefully the drop in SOH will slow down now that it's approaching 90%. At least that seems pretty common from what I've read here.
User avatar
Stanton
Posts: 2709
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:56 am
Delivery Date: 01 Sep 2011
Leaf Number: 7458
Location: Plano, TX
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

oxothuk wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:31 pm For the past few months I've been doing full charges more often than I did in the past and making note of how many GIDS I have afterwards. When the car was new I once got to 763 GIDS, nowadays it's usually 705-720.
Here's a question for you "lifer" Leafers: if we had these kinds of numbers in 2011/2012, would there have been a class action law suit (for battery pack replacement)? Whether you look at it as a % loss or gross GIDs, I think the simple fact that we're talking about ~200 miles of range would have alleviated some of the range anxiety. I definitely think there's been an improvement in cell chemistry, but I still wonder what would have happened if Nissan just "bit the bullet" and pushed for a higher capacity battery pack initially...even if it added $10k to the cost of the car. The fact is, I really like my 2011 Leaf...now that it has a 40kWh battery pack. :D
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/OVMS
12v LiFePO4 battery
FIAMM 74100 horns/Wet Okole seat covers/Tor's heater mod/Dala's CAN-bridge
Lizard Pack (Rev E) installed @51 months/41k miles
40 kWh Pack (Gen2) installed @115 months/84k miles
DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 16143
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

goldbrick wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 8:59 pm I see. I don't think I've ever had my Leaf under 7-9% SOC and normally I charge when I drop below 20% so that probably makes it pretty easy for me.

My Leaf is a purely in-town car and while I've done over 100 miles on a single charge (while staying within my self-imposed SOC limits) that is pretty uncommon. Most of my trips are 30 miles or less and for that, it is still just perfect. Hopefully the drop in SOH will slow down now that it's approaching 90%. At least that seems pretty common from what I've read here.
Well, I predicted I would go below 90% by 2021 Q4 (just over 2 years) and still waiting. I am still getting negative adjustments but they have been pretty mild. .17% and .09% were the last two.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 37,001 mi, 90.19% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 3416
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

There was definitely an improvement in chemistry between 2011/2012 and 2015. My 2011 was down to 8 capacity bars after two years while the 2015 took over 4 years and over 60,000 miles to drop to the same capacity. Both had the same initial battery capacity and were driven similar daily/annual distances by the same driver (me) in the same climate. The 2019 is still at 12 capacity bars after 3 years and over 50,000 miles--how much of the improvement over 2015 is due to larger capacity (fewer charge cycles for same mileage) vs. improved chemistry has not been conclusively determined.

I did not participate in the class action lawsuit because I disagreed with the premise of the case being presented and did not want to be a party to the misleading statements (lies) the plaintiff attorneys were spreading at the time. As an original owner of a 2011, I received documents directly from Nissan which added capacity loss coverage to the battery warranty long before receiving any information from the plaintiff attorneys regarding the class action lawsuit. In fact, Nissan contacted me to start the battery replacement process and had a new battery on order before I received information about the class action lawsuit.

The larger capacity now available (40 kWh or 62 kWh) clearly mitigates some of the inconvenience of capacity loss and also reduces that loss over time. I believe the chemistry used in 2011 and 2012 was so susceptible to premature capacity loss in higher ambient temperatures that it would have caused concern even with higher initial range, but it probably would not have gotten attention of class action attorneys who just wanted to collect large fees.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL Plus purchased 8/10/2019
GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 3416
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Here is my latest full discharge test of the 2019 SL Plus. Three years of data indicate that the battery capacity is dropping slowly over time, as expected.
LEAF 2019 Battery Information 8.jpg
As you can see from the data, capacity loss has been fairly linear over time and about 4% per year (from 3.85% to 4.1% depending upon whether you consider LEAF Spy data or actual charging energy from the wall). I think this is reasonable for an average of 17,235 miles per year in the hot desert climate.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL Plus purchased 8/10/2019
DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 16143
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

GerryAZ wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:15 pm Here is my latest full discharge test of the 2019 SL Plus. Three years of data indicate that the battery capacity is dropping slowly over time, as expected.

LEAF 2019 Battery Information 8.jpg

As you can see from the data, capacity loss has been fairly linear over time and about 4% per year (from 3.85% to 4.1% depending upon whether you consider LEAF Spy data or actual charging energy from the wall). I think this is reasonable for an average of 17,235 miles per year in the hot desert climate.
Pretty good considering the crazy weather you get. Your drop is anything but consistent. Unlike mine which was fast the first year dropping to "medium" for a half year to slow since then (about 1 =1½ % annually) you had a 5 measurement stretch with really slow drops in kwh replaced from 5/21 to 2/22 (61.96 - 61.21) but a much greater drop in SOH (93.20 - 89.95)
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 37,001 mi, 90.19% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 3417
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Fascinating.

Here is a link to my 2 Pluses of about the same age, but fewer miles (SV+ built 5/19, and S+ built 9/19) A bit higher SoH. The drive to work now 2x weekly plus the trips to Kansas are starting to up the miles monthly now. The Hx I find interesting as yours continues to drop off. It does seem like longer drives seem to help maintain Hx.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... p=drivesdk
2019 S Plus (93.3% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (89.9% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh
DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 16143
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

DougWantsALeaf wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:49 pm Fascinating.

Here is a link to my 2 Pluses of about the same age, but fewer miles (SV+ built 5/19, and S+ built 9/19) A bit higher SoH. The drive to work now 2x weekly plus the trips to Kansas are starting to up the miles monthly now. The Hx I find interesting as yours continues to drop off. It does seem like longer drives seem to help maintain Hx.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... p=drivesdk
Hx is a mystery to me as well although I am seeing a bit of a trend with people who DC more than average maintaining a higher (105+) Hx but we get to gig drivers who DC a lot and it tails off so...maybe a sweet spot? But w/o knowing what Hx is, its hard to say if high or lower is better. Maybe 100 is the sweet spot and I am no better off at 115 than someone at 85? Seems far fetched but there are a lot of packs doing well with Hx in the upper 80's low 90's sooo...
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 37,001 mi, 90.19% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
OldManCan
Gold Member
Posts: 282
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:48 am
Delivery Date: 07 Dec 2021
Leaf Number: 553784

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Here's my Hx trend along with SOH & Ahr since new. Seems like my Hx was increasing for a while and then went into dropping trend. Have no clue why and how. Sharing here in case it helps make sense of this somehow.
Screen Shot 2022-09-29 at 10.07.39 AM.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
2022 SL+
SoCal
DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 3417
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: The 62kWh Battery Topic

Looking at my October 20 to October 21 to October 22 degradation

Year SV+ S+
10/20 94.78% 98.07%
10/21 91.41% 94.03%
10/22 90.92% 92.46%

While the cars were built only 4 months apart (May and Sept 2019), the S+ sat for 9 months before being driven. With that lens, pretending that the S+ was a year younger, pushing down the SV+ the SoH% are pretty identical.


Year SV+ S+
0 xxxxxx 98.07%
1 94.78% 94.03%
2 91.41% 92.46%
3 90.92%

This makes me think that a sitting battery doesn't Ahr that fast.
2019 S Plus (93.3% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (89.9% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

Return to “Batteries & Charging”