connecting EVSE to dryer outlet ?

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Wow, Zencar just quoted me $167, plus shipping. Said they can put a 10-30 plug but not a 14-30 (I guess they just don't have one).

I guess it's cool if I make an extension cord with 14-30P at one end, 10-30R at other end, and just use cheaper 10/3 cord.
 
From what I've been able to learn about 3 vrs 4 wire systems for US split phase electricity:
- The L1 and L2 wires are approx 120 VAC at "opposite phases" and are required for any 240 VAC user.
- A 3 wire system can be used for any 240 VAC system as long as no 120 VAC is required at the "user" as a neutral wire (the 4th wire) is required to access the main panel's neutral buss system.
- Since most EV CC's (EVSE) are "single phase - but actually split phase" and don't require a neutral, the 3 wire is OK to use
- Many modern appliances use a control system that requires the 120 VAC - often a small transformer or some electronics board and therefore require a 4 wire supply (L1, L2, neutral and ground).
- Rarely are there any 3 phase systems in the US, unless it's a rather large user - the "phases" are a bit more complicated to explain!
- What a user gets in the US depends on the high to low voltage transformer located near the users meter(s).

Being a chemical and not an electrical engineer, this is what I've interpreted from simple/complex articles - any corrections are welcome!
 
Comments on above:

- L1 and L2 are 120VAC from ground or neutral but opposite polarity, so they is 240VAC between them.

- For whatever reason, the nomenclature standard for cords (on equipment) is to count the EGC (grounding wire), but for building wire (inside the walls), it is not to count it, and it is always implied. You can use "w/g" (with ground) if you want to emphasize its presence. So a NEMA 6 receptacle would require a 2-wire (w/g) circuit and the equipment would have a 3 prong plug with a 3 wire cable.

- EVSEs are almost always 2 wire single phase (again w/g is implied), and given that may other parts of the world use a 220V to 240V single phase system in which one circuit conductor is grounded, it would be very unlikely that an EVSE or an EV would require a "split phase" supply, in that it would limit marketability.

Cheers, Wayne
 
10-30 receptacles are no longer code compliant and new ones are not allowed, but those already in existence are allowed to stay.

A 10-30 is 2 hots and a neutral
A 14-30 is 2 hots and a ground

If the EVSE is set to 24 Amps you can use a 14-50 plug and receptacle with a 30 Amp breaker. I'm not a big fan of this approach because a future user of the receptacle will not understand why the circuit trips at 30 Amps; or even worse, replace the 30 Amp breaker with a 50 Amp breaker and then turn the circuit into a safety hazard. I do think this is allowed, but be careful. If you go this route I highly recommend that you add a sign that says "EV charging only, DO NOT increase breaker to more than 30 Amps."
 
SageBrush said:
10-30 receptacles are no longer code compliant and new ones are not allowed
New circuits would require an EGC, but if you have an existing EGC-less circuit with a 10-30 receptacle, and the receptacle fails, you are allowed to replace it with a 10-30.

SageBrush said:
A 10-30 is 2 hots and a neutral
A 14-30 is 2 hots and a ground
I think you mean 6-XX is 2 hots and a ground; 14-XX is 2 hots, a neutral, and a ground.

SageBrush said:
or even worse, replace the 30 Amp breaker with a 50 Amp breaker and then turn the circuit into a safety hazard.
No code problems with a 30A breaker, #10 AWG wiring, and a NEMA 50A receptacle as the only load on the circuit. Anyone changing a breaker needs to be minimally competent and check the wire size. Zero excuse for changing a breaker from 30A to 50A just because there's a 50A receptacle, without checking the wire size at both ends.

Cheers, Wayne
 
RustyShackleford said:
Wow, Zencar just quoted me $167, plus shipping. Said they can put a 10-30 plug but not a 14-30 (I guess they just don't have one).

I guess it's cool if I make an extension cord with 14-30P at one end, 10-30R at other end, and just use cheaper 10/3 cord.

You can ask them for a 14-50P, then remove the neutral blade yourself from the plug. That's exactly what I did - it works fine because an EVSE uses only the two hots and the ground.

300px-220sb.svg.png


The 14-30R is on the left, the 14-50R on the right. As you can see, the two hot blades and the ground are identical.
 
alozzy said:
RustyShackleford said:
Wow, Zencar just quoted me $167, plus shipping. Said they can put a 10-30 plug but not a 14-30 (I guess they just don't have one).

I guess it's cool if I make an extension cord with 14-30P at one end, 10-30R at other end, and just use cheaper 10/3 cord.

You can ask them for a 14-50P, then remove the neutral blade yourself from the plug. That's exactly what I did - it works fine because an EVSE uses only the two hots and the ground.

300px-220sb.svg.png


The 14-30R is on the left, the 14-50R on the right. As you can see, the two hot blades and the ground are identical.
Ok, good catch. Assuming it's one of those convertible plugs that allows the neutral blade to easily be removed (I've also seen ones that come with both a 14-30 and a 14-50 style neutral blade). Then I'd just use a 14-30 style extension cord.

I think it makes more sense to get the 10-30 plug option though. Then only need an extension cord with two hots + EGC. If I made a DIY 14-30 cord I could use 10/3 wire (instead of 10/4), but seems potentially confusing to have one of the socket terminals not connected to anything.
 
One thing that troubles me about buying one of these 25amp EVSEs (so it can plug into the dryer outlet by whatever machinations) is that I'd want to sell the OEM one. Except, as best I can tell, the new one wouldn't have the option to trickle-charge from a 120v outlet. The Zencar one doesn't seem to, at least. I wonder if there's a 24-25 amp one that has the 120v option like the OEM one ?
 
The Zencar EVSE does do 120V charging, also at various amperage set points of your choice. With mine, I charged on a TT30 circuit at an RV park, using the 24A set point, and the LEAF charged without issue.

If memory serves, the input voltage range is 110V - 250V.
 
RustyShackleford said:
One thing that troubles me about buying one of these 25amp EVSEs (so it can plug into the dryer outlet by whatever machinations) is that I'd want to sell the OEM one. Except, as best I can tell, the new one wouldn't have the option to trickle-charge from a 120v outlet. The Zencar one doesn't seem to, at least. I wonder if there's a 24-25 amp one that has the 120v option like the OEM one ?
That is a very good point and a real reason I wouldn't want to have just one EVSE and have that one be not adjustable. A common cheap EVSE sold on Amazon and lots of other places are the 16a 120v-240v variety and while 16a might be OK on a good quality 20a breaker/wiring/outlet, it will trip the more common 15a outlet. Because of this, I'd really prefer an EVSE to be adjustable and have a 12a setting. Zencar does make many adjustable EVSE that would do 12a as well as higher amperages but they will cost more than the non-adjustable ones, but if you only want one EVSE, it's the only kind I personally would get.
I believe all Zencar and most non-big-brand EVSE work on voltages from 100-240v and their amperages will be the same on all voltages so if it's a 16a or 24a fixed it will be that at both 120v and 240v, so even though you'd probably be OK with a fixed 24a amp 240v EVSE you probably don't want the same 24a for 120v charging.
 
jjeff said:
I believe all Zencar and most non-big-brand EVSE work on voltages from 100-240v ...
Yes, but they don't have the adaptable plug like the OEM one does. I guess you'd need some kind of adapter to plug it into 120v outlet.
 
Yes, I made one up using readily available adapters. If you are interested, I can post a photo of the one I made. It's somewhere on here already, but the search engine sucks on this website...
 
alozzy said:
Yes, I made one up using readily available adapters. If you are interested, I can post a photo of the one I made. It's somewhere on here already, but the search engine sucks on this website...
I made several myself too but they are available on Amazon and some other places at prices more than making one yourself but they are available.
 
Here's the adapter cable I made, which has a NEMA 14-50R (where the EVSE is plugged in) and a TT30p (old standard at RV sites).

Also pictured is a pre-made TT30 to NEMA 5-15p adapter (aka a standard 120V plug), which is a common RV adapter.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/N9UiDn18t77xkjJ27

By combining my adapter cable with the TT30r to 5-15p adapter, I can charge my LEAF on a standard 120V receptacle (120V @ 12A). Remove that adapter dongle and I can charge from a TT30 receptacle (120V @ 24A).
 
Oh and I didn't mention but probably should have, when purchasing premade outlet adapters you really want to look for the words "for EVs" in the description or if you read the comments look for someone who said they've used it with EVs and not just RV. Adpters for 240v to 240v plugs will all be the same as will be 120v plugs to 120v plugs but 120v plugs to 240v plugs meant for RV use will NOT work for EVs/EVSEs. RV adapter plugs will put the single hot of a 120v plug on both hots of the of the 240v female plug, resulting in 0 volts between the two and the EVSE won't work, a proper EVSE adapter plug will put the neutral of the 120v source on what would normally be a hot of a 240v outlet and the hot of the 120v plug on the other hot of a 240v plug, correct for EVSE use but NOT RV use. On the flip side, do NOT use this adapter plug on an RV where again it will NOT work.
If in doubt again look for confirmation the adapter plug is meant for EVs and not just RVs. As RV adapter plugs are much more common they tend to be a fair amount cheaper than EV adapter plugs even though they have basically the same components, it's all about sales volume. Using an incorrect RV adapter plug on an EVSE isn't really going to hurt anything, it just won't work but using an incorrect EV adapter plug in an RV could cause weird things, especially for 240-volt devices in the RV, which could damage something. I believe all premade EV adapter plugs might say something to the effect, "for EV use only" or at least should. I personally use my labeler to put such a label on ones I make, in case I get run over by a beer truck and my adapter plugs fall into the wrong hands :D
 
alozzy said:
Remove that adapter dongle and I can charge from a TT30 receptacle (120V @ 24A).

Are you sure...I haven't seen anything that says the Leaf can pull 24 amps at 120 volts? 240 yes...but not 120.
 
Learjet said:
alozzy said:
Remove that adapter dongle and I can charge from a TT30 receptacle (120V @ 24A).

Are you sure...I haven't seen anything that says the Leaf can pull 24 amps at 120 volts? 240 yes...but not 120.
Alozzy is correct, a Leaf can pull the same amperage from 120v as well as 240v. So if your Leaf can pull 16a max L2 it will be the same for L1 and newer Leafs that top out at 27.5a could pull the same 27.5a from 120v, if your EVSE is capable of that, which the OEM Leaf EVSE is not, that one maxes out at 12a.
 
Related question- does Gen2 Leaf EVSE use Neutral at all?
Currently using NEMA 6-50 Chargepoint but I want the Leaf EVSE to be our L2 backup, so considering a premade 6-50 plug to 14-50 socket adapters. From what I can they either just skip neutral or bind it to GND. Here are a few I found:
https://www.amazon.com/Electric-Vehicle-Charging-Adapter-adapter/dp/B07TG183HN
https://www.amazon.com/PLIS-14-50R-Welding-Charger-Adapter/dp/B07TC39LRD
 
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