2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

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I've driven a Prius before, and it just takes too much work for too little gain. The Leaf is a much better commuter vehicle

You can say that again. Driving the Prius II and the PIP was excruciating - every little fun thing you did cost you fuel economy, and even when you ignored the eco-miling, the car was just no damned fun to drive. A lot of us came to the Leaf from driving a Prius, and it was like dying and going to heaven. If not having your car idling an ICE when stopped is a big improvement, not having to deal with a primitive ICE at all was like traveling to the distant, utopian future. (Until 2016 arrived.)
 
LeftieBiker said:
I did have my, 'battery inspection', at 25,000. Is the 'software update' something additional I need to schedule at my dealer?

Yes. The update is free. Nissan claims that there is nothing wrong with the 30kwh batteries other than a glitch in the Battery Management System (BMS) that causes it to under-report the capacity, and that the update fixes the issue. Since they have run out of 30kwh batteries are are now installing 40kwh batteries as warranty replacements, I think that that is not quite the whole story. My opinion is that there is a serious issue with many - but not all - of the 30kwh packs, and that they range in quality and longevity from "great" to "lousy."

Is there a way to specificall identify this 'software update'? I called the Nissan 800 number and ended up speaking to a Consumer Affairs person who didn't seem to know what I was talking about but told me all warranty issues have been taken care of. My dealership does not seem to know a lot about the Leaf.
 
Show them this: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10143139-9999.pdf

And if you have LeafSpy you can do this to see if it has been done already. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-Eq93RniJ8
 
Hello guys.
My 2017 30kw Leaf had 73% SOH with 10bars in June when I buyed with 168k km.
Meanwhile, i drove it let say 7k and lost around 9% in short time(km) and don't understand why.
My LeafSpy didn't show me a bad cell, at 30-90% SoC had 20-40mV difference.
Only at <10% have 100-400mV difference on back block.
What is recommended to do to improve SOH or limit this rapid degradation.
 
negue001 said:
Hello guys.
My 2017 30kw Leaf had 73% SOH with 10bars in June when I buyed with 168k km.
Meanwhile, i drove it let say 7k and lost around 9% in short time(km) and don't understand why.
My LeafSpy didn't show me a bad cell, at 30-90% SoC had 20-40mV difference.
Only at <10% have 100-400mV difference on back block.
What is recommended to do to improve SOH or limit this rapid degradation.

What high air temperature do you see annually?

Our 2016 30 kWh battery lost the 4th SOH bar after 42 months November 2019 triggering Nissan replacing it February 2020 with a new 40 kWh pack with 99.87% SOH which after 16K miles USA it was totalled November 2020 and was driven little for the next 18 months due to Covid blood clots and rebuilding it and securing a salvage title.

The 20-40 mV cell difference after 100% SOC indicates cells are losing ability to charge and discharge in a flexible manner. The charging from 90 to 100% is when the BMS (Battery Management Software) does its magic to keep our Leaf batteries as healthy as possible.

After great effort I have found NO way to recover lost SOH.

I did find a way per Leaf Spy Pro readings to temporarily halt SOH loss. All shop owners know not to leave a wrecked EV in his shop with the 12 volt battery connected. With religious use of Leaf Spy Pro I soon realized when the negative battery post was off between readings there was no loss of SOH reported so I installed a blade cutoff switch on the negative 12v battery post.

My normal SOH loss is like 0.01 daily. In 18 months my SOH declined from 96.08 to 95.72 which roughly corresponds with the number of days the negative battery post was connected over the 18 month period.
 
I was going to say you want to degrade the pack as fast as possible to get a new warranty replacement but I see you have exceeded the mileage limit. Not much you can do at this point except to keep it as cool as possible and try to avoid leaving the pack at > 90% SOC or < 15% SOC for long periods, especially at hot temperatures.
 
negue001 said:
Hello guys.
My 2017 30kw Leaf had 73% SOH with 10bars in June when I buyed with 168k km.
Meanwhile, i drove it let say 7k and lost around 9% in short time(km) and don't understand why.
My LeafSpy didn't show me a bad cell, at 30-90% SoC had 20-40mV difference.
Only at <10% have 100-400mV difference on back block.
What is recommended to do to improve SOH or limit this rapid degradation.

yeah, what goldbrick said (your battery warranty had just passed). You can only work to limit further degradation. No recovery possible.

Which part of the world do you live in? If you're in a hot climate area (like Arizona), then you should seriously consider either selling the Leaf or paying a third party to upgrade the battery to a 40kwh one. Follow this thread for details on how to do the upgrade: https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=617151#p617151
 
This summer had climate 25°c - 39°c , charging overnight and chademo on day. Buy in 6k km 8-10% so much degradation in my opinion .
All cell was degraded or backcell is degraded and other try to balance them ?
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
GaleHawkins said:
SageBrush said:
Enjoy your SOH "freezing,", but I suggest you avoid mention of affecting battery degradation unless you test for capacity change.

You followed my testing procedure and was able freeze your SOH I Iake it. :)

I think Sagebrush's point was that the SOH value came only from the BMS, and that the margin of error on that value is high enough that you really can't conclude that you've halted SOH degradation by simply disconnecting the 12v battery for a fully disconnected "shelf-storage".

As a data point, while waiting for the 4th bar to drop (mine did it at 65.84% SOH, while others dropped a little earlier than this), I noticed that the SOH value went UP a day later (probably due to weather change?) by about 0.08%. With that kind of error rate, you're going to need to have a ton more data before you can be sure that the degradation had actually dropped.

As a shade-tree electrician (computer engineer by training), I can see the logic that disconnecting the main pack from the 12v battery would remove a parasitic load from the main pack (and thus reduce the charge cycling). But that thinking is incomplete. Even though you've removed the electrical load, the thermal load on the liquid electrolyte is still present, which is why calendar degradation is a thing. You're in KY, so your weather is better for maintaining battery health, but it would NOT work in warmer climates like the southwestern states.

As for the Prius C, it's a non-plug-in hybrid, why forgo putting miles on the Leaf just to preserve its battery for 10 years?

Edit: @ RandalC, mine dropped the 4th bar at 65.84%, I've seen others dropped within 1% of that value. So 66.8% - 64.8%.

I am not forgoing putting miles on the Leaf just to preserve its battery for 10 years but to keep miles off of the 2010 220K mile F-150 with the 10K tow package when going more than 60 miles from the house. I need to save the F-150 for towing equipment.

After learning how to stop SOH decline when the Leaf is parked removes the use it or lose it pressure. With the blade 12v negative battery post switch I just open it when I don't plan to use it the next day.

I am not crazy about the looks of a Prius but the Prius C is actually a Yaris in the USA it seems.

This past Saturday we changed out the transmission fluid in the C so we are up to speed on maintenance. I find it more fun to drive then the Leaf because it is lighter and more agile.

The point of getting the C was to find out if I would like a RAV4 Prime and I would except for the version I prefer is $45K USD.

The fact remains I live in an area where a 150 mi range Leaf creates stress because some days when I leave home I will drive too far to get back in the Leaf. Also the trailer towing capacity is larger with RAV4 than a Leaf.

Another factor is I have never owned a Toyota or a Hybrid so this gives me a chance to broaden my experiences while I'm young enough to do so.
 
GaleHawkins said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
GaleHawkins said:
You followed my testing procedure and was able freeze your SOH I Iake it. :)

I think Sagebrush's point was that the SOH value came only from the BMS, and that the margin of error on that value is high enough that you really can't conclude that you've halted SOH degradation by simply disconnecting the 12v battery for a fully disconnected "shelf-storage".

As a data point, while waiting for the 4th bar to drop (mine did it at 65.84% SOH, while others dropped a little earlier than this), I noticed that the SOH value went UP a day later (probably due to weather change?) by about 0.08%. With that kind of error rate, you're going to need to have a ton more data before you can be sure that the degradation had actually dropped.

As a shade-tree electrician (computer engineer by training), I can see the logic that disconnecting the main pack from the 12v battery would remove a parasitic load from the main pack (and thus reduce the charge cycling). But that thinking is incomplete. Even though you've removed the electrical load, the thermal load on the liquid electrolyte is still present, which is why calendar degradation is a thing. You're in KY, so your weather is better for maintaining battery health, but it would NOT work in warmer climates like the southwestern states.

As for the Prius C, it's a non-plug-in hybrid, why forgo putting miles on the Leaf just to preserve its battery for 10 years?

Edit: @ RandalC, mine dropped the 4th bar at 65.84%, I've seen others dropped within 1% of that value. So 66.8% - 64.8%.

I am not forgoing putting miles on the Leaf just to preserve its battery for 10 years but to keep miles off of the 2010 220K mile F-150 with the 10K tow package when going more than 60 miles from the house. I need to save the F-150 for towing equipment.

After learning how to stop SOH decline when the Leaf is parked removes the use it or lose it pressure. With the blade 12v negative battery post switch I just open it when I don't plan to use it the next day.

I am not crazy about the looks of a Prius but the Prius C is actually a Yaris in the USA it seems.

This past Saturday we changed out the transmission fluid in the C so we are up to speed on maintenance. I find it more fun to drive then the Leaf because it is lighter and more agile.

The point of getting the C was to find out if I would like a RAV4 Prime and I would except for the version I prefer is $45K USD.

The fact remains I live in an area where a 150 mi range Leaf creates stress because some days when I leave home I will drive too far to get back in the Leaf. Also the trailer towing capacity is larger with RAV4 than a Leaf.

Another factor is I have never owned a Toyota or a Hybrid so this gives me a chance to broaden my experiences while I'm young enough to do so.

Are you sure you have a Prius C? It most definitely is NOT a Yaris! And it would serve as a very poor proxy for a RAV4 Prime. Why didn't you get the Prius Prime instead? It's a little bigger and would've been cheaper than the C (after federal tax credit). Your decisions and statements seem inconsistent.
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
GaleHawkins said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
I think Sagebrush's point was that the SOH value came only from the BMS, and that the margin of error on that value is high enough that you really can't conclude that you've halted SOH degradation by simply disconnecting the 12v battery for a fully disconnected "shelf-storage".

As a data point, while waiting for the 4th bar to drop (mine did it at 65.84% SOH, while others dropped a little earlier than this), I noticed that the SOH value went UP a day later (probably due to weather change?) by about 0.08%. With that kind of error rate, you're going to need to have a ton more data before you can be sure that the degradation had actually dropped.

As a shade-tree electrician (computer engineer by training), I can see the logic that disconnecting the main pack from the 12v battery would remove a parasitic load from the main pack (and thus reduce the charge cycling). But that thinking is incomplete. Even though you've removed the electrical load, the thermal load on the liquid electrolyte is still present, which is why calendar degradation is a thing. You're in KY, so your weather is better for maintaining battery health, but it would NOT work in warmer climates like the southwestern states.

As for the Prius C, it's a non-plug-in hybrid, why forgo putting miles on the Leaf just to preserve its battery for 10 years?

Edit: @ RandalC, mine dropped the 4th bar at 65.84%, I've seen others dropped within 1% of that value. So 66.8% - 64.8%.

I am not forgoing putting miles on the Leaf just to preserve its battery for 10 years but to keep miles off of the 2010 220K mile F-150 with the 10K tow package when going more than 60 miles from the house. I need to save the F-150 for towing equipment.

After learning how to stop SOH decline when the Leaf is parked removes the use it or lose it pressure. With the blade 12v negative battery post switch I just open it when I don't plan to use it the next day.

I am not crazy about the looks of a Prius but the Prius C is actually a Yaris in the USA it seems.

This past Saturday we changed out the transmission fluid in the C so we are up to speed on maintenance. I find it more fun to drive then the Leaf because it is lighter and more agile.

The point of getting the C was to find out if I would like a RAV4 Prime and I would except for the version I prefer is $45K USD.

The fact remains I live in an area where a 150 mi range Leaf creates stress because some days when I leave home I will drive too far to get back in the Leaf. Also the trailer towing capacity is larger with RAV4 than a Leaf.

Another factor is I have never owned a Toyota or a Hybrid so this gives me a chance to broaden my experiences while I'm young enough to do so.

Are you sure you have a Prius C? It most definitely is NOT a Yaris! And it would serve as a very poor proxy for a RAV4 Prime. Why didn't you get the Prius Prime instead? It's a little bigger and would've been cheaper than the C (after federal tax credit). Your decisions and statements seem inconsistent.

Oils4 you know my posts reflect much reading and often 100's of hours hands on time. Look at rear end photos of a 2015 Prius C, Prius and Yaris to realize your miss view.

You may think our 2016 Leaf SL with a new 2020 40 kWh battery is a poor proxy for a Tesla Model Y but at $13,500 it's a proxy that works for me. The $12,500 103K mile Prius C is an excellent proxy for the $50,000 Rav4 below.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7g3MZwMN2iE

In my 71 years I have never owned a Toyota before. The C offers Hybrid and EV mode experience. It doesn't burn oil and the HV battery performance range wise as when new. As with the Leaf it will bark the tires.

You may want to review current Toyota pricing.
 
Hi again,
Someone know a soft that stop BMS auto balancing to do a test ? I want to find thous cell that lower the capacity of battery.
 
GaleHawkins said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
GaleHawkins said:
I am not forgoing putting miles on the Leaf just to preserve its battery for 10 years but to keep miles off of the 2010 220K mile F-150 with the 10K tow package when going more than 60 miles from the house. I need to save the F-150 for towing equipment.

After learning how to stop SOH decline when the Leaf is parked removes the use it or lose it pressure. With the blade 12v negative battery post switch I just open it when I don't plan to use it the next day.

I am not crazy about the looks of a Prius but the Prius C is actually a Yaris in the USA it seems.

This past Saturday we changed out the transmission fluid in the C so we are up to speed on maintenance. I find it more fun to drive then the Leaf because it is lighter and more agile.

The point of getting the C was to find out if I would like a RAV4 Prime and I would except for the version I prefer is $45K USD.

The fact remains I live in an area where a 150 mi range Leaf creates stress because some days when I leave home I will drive too far to get back in the Leaf. Also the trailer towing capacity is larger with RAV4 than a Leaf.

Another factor is I have never owned a Toyota or a Hybrid so this gives me a chance to broaden my experiences while I'm young enough to do so.

Are you sure you have a Prius C? It most definitely is NOT a Yaris! And it would serve as a very poor proxy for a RAV4 Prime. Why didn't you get the Prius Prime instead? It's a little bigger and would've been cheaper than the C (after federal tax credit). Your decisions and statements seem inconsistent.

Oils4 you know my posts reflect much reading and often 100's of hours hands on time. Look at rear end photos of a 2015 Prius C, Prius and Yaris to realize your miss view.

You may think our 2016 Leaf SL with a new 2020 40 kWh battery is a poor proxy for a Tesla Model Y but at $13,500 it's a proxy that works for me. The $12,500 103K mile Prius C is an excellent proxy for the $50,000 Rav4 below.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7g3MZwMN2iE

In my 71 years I have never owned a Toyota before. The C offers Hybrid and EV mode experience. It doesn't burn oil and the HV battery performance range wise as when new. As with the Leaf it will bark the tires.

You may want to review current Toyota pricing.

The Prius C is NOT a plug-in hybrid, like the Rav4 Prime. If you equate the low-speed "EV mode" of the C as equivalent, then nothing I write will convince you of the world of difference between them.
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
GaleHawkins said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Are you sure you have a Prius C? It most definitely is NOT a Yaris! And it would serve as a very poor proxy for a RAV4 Prime. Why didn't you get the Prius Prime instead? It's a little bigger and would've been cheaper than the C (after federal tax credit). Your decisions and statements seem inconsistent.

Oils4 you know my posts reflect much reading and often 100's of hours hands on time. Look at rear end photos of a 2015 Prius C, Prius and Yaris to realize your miss view.

You may think our 2016 Leaf SL with a new 2020 40 kWh battery is a poor proxy for a Tesla Model Y but at $13,500 it's a proxy that works for me. The $12,500 103K mile Prius C is an excellent proxy for the $50,000 Rav4 below.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7g3MZwMN2iE

In my 71 years I have never owned a Toyota before. The C offers Hybrid and EV mode experience. It doesn't burn oil and the HV battery performance range wise as when new. As with the Leaf it will bark the tires.

You may want to review current Toyota pricing.

The Prius C is NOT a plug-in hybrid, like the Rav4 Prime. If you equate the low-speed "EV mode" of the C as equivalent, then nothing I write will convince you of the world of difference between them.

The $37,500 price difference should be a huge clue I would think.
 
GaleHawkins said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
GaleHawkins said:
Oils4 you know my posts reflect much reading and often 100's of hours hands on time. Look at rear end photos of a 2015 Prius C, Prius and Yaris to realize your miss view.

You may think our 2016 Leaf SL with a new 2020 40 kWh battery is a poor proxy for a Tesla Model Y but at $13,500 it's a proxy that works for me. The $12,500 103K mile Prius C is an excellent proxy for the $50,000 Rav4 below.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7g3MZwMN2iE

In my 71 years I have never owned a Toyota before. The C offers Hybrid and EV mode experience. It doesn't burn oil and the HV battery performance range wise as when new. As with the Leaf it will bark the tires.

You may want to review current Toyota pricing.

The Prius C is NOT a plug-in hybrid, like the Rav4 Prime. If you equate the low-speed "EV mode" of the C as equivalent, then nothing I write will convince you of the world of difference between them.

The $37,500 price difference should be a huge clue I would think.

This makes as much sense as two hedgehogs in an aquarium. I don't understand what was just exchanged. As long as you're happy, man.
 
Well I expect the RAV4 would be a decent option but with the price getting up to $50,000 I'm back to a model y Tesla making the most dollars and cents. I see that's the route you went.
 
Back on topic. The dealership finally came back with an ETA! It'll be another month, because the warranty replacement batteries (~400 of them) are ALL coming in from a factory in Japan!! I hope they didn't deliberately build new 30kwh packs just to satisfy these warranty claims! It'll mean they've met their warranty obligations, but also that I've missed out on the battery lottery. Oh well, can only keep my fingers crossed.
 
First 6 weeks of 2020 was White knuckle time for me but they finally came through.

May you win the lotto!

I can really see Nissan reverting back to be a domestic Japanese car maker only.
 
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