EV shool buses?

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user 24513

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 3, 2018
Messages
575
Location
Vermont
Our local school district owns its own buses, and the routes are fairly short (although mostly dirt roads), we are looking at getting electric buses to replace the old diesels. Anyone have any experience or any local hearsay about them? This seems like a good place to fish for info.
 
This article might be of interest to you.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/electrek.co/2021/11/19/heres-how-alaskas-only-electric-school-bus-is-performing-in-temps-as-low-as-40f/amp/

What state/area? Some states have incentives in certain areas for air quality improvement related to school buses. I know in IL Chicago and STL areas had something but can't remember exactly what.
 
I have 0 experience but recall seeing some back at Drive Electric Week EVents in Cupertino, CA years back.

When trying to Google for ev school buses plug-in america cupertino, I found a few hits like these:
https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/news/california-surpasses-12-billion-dollar-mark-investments-states-zero-emission-future-highlights
https://www.pgecurrents.com/2021/08/25/cleaner-quieter-rides-to-school-coming-to-30-school-districts-in-northern-and-central-california/ (Pacific Gouge & Extort is a major electric utility in CA)
https://electrek.co/2018/04/09/blue-bird-all-electric-buses-road/
https://cleantechnica.com/2022/01/09/gemilang-to-deliver-140-electric-school-buses-to-california-schools/
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/school-districts-rolling-out-electric-buses
 
Found my old bookmark

This would be the place to look for incentives for your state: https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/state
 
dmacarthur said:
Our local school district owns its own buses, and the routes are fairly short (although mostly dirt roads), we are looking at getting electric buses to replace the old diesels. Anyone have any experience or any local hearsay about them? This seems like a good place to fish for info.

I have "riding" experience, they are awesome. A true "magic carpet" ride quality, no gear shifting, quiet enough to talk normally instead of over the engine and smell free (from diesel anyway :lol: )
This one had hydraulics to raise and lower it on the fly for easy access. ;)

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Here's one of the major manufacturers of electric buses: https://thelionelectric.com/en/products/electric
 
Maybe also dig around by Googling for central valley electric school bus. IIRC, Central Valley CA has air quality challenges.

I found https://www.schoolbusfleet.com/10125849/california-district-receives-5-blue-bird-electric-school-buses. I actually used a free Caltrans DC FC in Madera (https://www.plugshare.com/location/303845). It's one of https://dot.ca.gov/news-releases/news-release-2021-001.
 
Thanks all! great resources..... now we wait to see what is actually available, Vermont is offering incentives but whether the net cost is possible remains to be seen. and whether EV buses make more sense in urban, or rural, locations is also up for experimentation. So far they look like urban creatures, although the ability to raise up a la Citroen and Tesla X would be great for mud season.....
 
As you live in VT, a cooler place a worry I might have is keeping something as large as a bus warm. I could see keeping the inside warm and windows frost-free could take as much power as moving the bus around. As unpopular as it might be with some, to me it might be best for the bus to have a diesel heater, and just use the batteries to move the bus around. On something as large as a bus I suppose you could use other means to heat the bus, propane? which would be cleaner than diesel but heating with batteries alone seems like a large burden on the batteries.
 
watchdoc said:
Being from North Carolina, I'm partial to Thomas Buses. They offer a fully electric school bus and have many in service already. There are also companies that will convert your existing school buses to electric for a fraction of the cost of a new bus.

https://electrek.co/2021/12/07/1000...ol-buses-will-be-converted-to-fully-electric/
Thanks,
Quote from a link of your link:
"Even with a little bit of insulation on the batteries and kind of covering up the engine compartment, to try to hold in as much heat as we could, we were still using more energy to heat the bus than we were to drive the bus.

On January 27, we had 38 below.

The bus’ efficiency that day was 3.46 kilowatts per mile. So this fall, in August-September, we were running between 1.4 and 1.7 kilowatts per mile."

As comments say batteries are better for propulsion and fuel is better for heating, as I suggested, batteries to move the bus and some sort of fuel to heat it, well at least in single digit and colder temps. In warmer temps, an efficient heat pump heater would suffice. I kinda like the idea of using propane for heat as it's cleaner than diesel and stores better, also not the possibility of things gumming up during the times they wouldn't need it and again in something as large as a bus they should have lots of areas to mount the tank. Sure propane is explosive but so is a tank full of gas!
 
Yup, the heat issue is huge and those numbers look pretty bad for actual m/kWh..... if the State is offering incentives then they will be checking into the best way to heat as well.
 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/cleantechnica.com/2021/04/24/how-quickly-will-electric-school-buses-scale-an-interview-with-blue-bird/amp/

Looks like Blue Bird is in the game too - they estimate 90% of their sales have grants associated with them.
 
jjeff said:
watchdoc said:
Being from North Carolina, I'm partial to Thomas Buses. They offer a fully electric school bus and have many in service already. There are also companies that will convert your existing school buses to electric for a fraction of the cost of a new bus.

https://electrek.co/2021/12/07/1000...ol-buses-will-be-converted-to-fully-electric/
Thanks,
Quote from a link of your link:
"Even with a little bit of insulation on the batteries and kind of covering up the engine compartment, to try to hold in as much heat as we could, we were still using more energy to heat the bus than we were to drive the bus.

On January 27, we had 38 below.

The bus’ efficiency that day was 3.46 kilowatts per mile. So this fall, in August-September, we were running between 1.4 and 1.7 kilowatts per mile."

As comments say batteries are better for propulsion and fuel is better for heating, as I suggested, batteries to move the bus and some sort of fuel to heat it, well at least in single digit and colder temps. In warmer temps, an efficient heat pump heater would suffice. I kinda like the idea of using propane for heat as it's cleaner than diesel and stores better, also not the possibility of things gumming up during the times they wouldn't need it and again in something as large as a bus they should have lots of areas to mount the tank. Sure propane is explosive but so is a tank full of gas!

Preconditioning the interior while plugged in and heat pumps are gonna be key to keeping things all electric. Resistive heaters in very cold climates have always been an issue even with diesel buses.

That being said, Solar roofs on buses and the opportunity for peak shaving present a massive opportunity for schools to save money. I small fleet of a dozen buses fully charged overnight at super off peak rates will be able to help power the school while parked for the day while a solar bus roof further contributes to V2X. Within a decade, the local city bus pool depot will be able to do their own "cell level" battery repairs much the same way that local mechanics service these buses now.
 
In terms of heat old EVs used to use propane heat and in this modern age CNG exists also. Fuel for heat can be almost 100% efficient in this modern age.


I’m not sure if anything has changed but EV buses were rather unreliable, many in that 1st/2nd Gen had a 3-5 year lifespan and short warranties.

I would strongly recommend locating other municipalities who used your target platform to see what was encountered and how much use they got.

I would also recommend testing the waters with a few units and considering
A propane or CNG option, understanding that even those options may be poor in frigid temperatures as well.

Like all things eventually the HD market will become trouble free but given the number of HD EVs available on the salvage market in what appears to be an infant mortality scenario I would let others beta test if that is still found to be the situation.

Good Luck
 
I like the idea of converting vehicles to electric motors because it will reduce the demand for conventional fuel. In addition, electric motors emit almost no pollutants, which is good for the environment. But electric motors are much weaker, and it's hard for them to produce much power. I have been working as a bus driver for several years now. In our work, we use https://www.truck1.eu/buses/coaches/scania-marcopolo-a3985238.html. Even though they are old buses, they are still very practical.
 
Abakumss said:
But electric motors are much weaker, and it's hard for them to produce much power.

Northrop Grumman Corporation delivered a 49,000 horsepower motor to the Navy for a ship.

https://www.powermag.com/superconductor-motor-for-navy-passes-full-power-test/

How much HP do you need for a school bus? Oh, 355 HP diesel? No sweat. And remember that an electric motor has a flat torque curve, so delivers that power without shifting.
 
My local district is using Blue Bird 155 kwh version. 90 miles of range in optimum conditions. Talked to the driver during DEED event in May and he said the lowest range he saw was an estimated 55 miles or so. They run the bus from 90% SOC 4 times a day and will be getting a grant for an additional off site charging station.

Now we don't get the bad weather "much" but when we do, school is almost always closed so its a non issue anyway. ;)
 
Wow! The idea of electric school buses not only reduces emissions but also sets a cool example for the younger generation. And those conversion options? Total game-changers. I remember reading about EV conversions and being amazed by the possibilities.
 
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