Volkswagen ID.4 CUV

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Extreme cold can be a challenge no matter what you drive, the difference here being familiarity with the risk thresholds and options for dealing with them.

I've had a gas line freeze up and strand me before (carried HEET for years as a result. Never needed it again). Had bad gas strand me in an ice storm once, not a pleasant experience. Lost 2 days getting the car fixed, had to drop and drain the tank, flush the fuel system.

None of which is relevant to the EV experience of course. Those kind of temps occur with some frequency in the mountains west of us, which is the reason why we'll keep an ICE car around (paid for) for those kinds of trips for a few more years.
 
goldbrick said:
-15° Nightmare - warning to cold weather friends

There are some very valid points:
An EV can take longer on a long trip.
Cold weather makes this far worse.
Sparse infrastructure means that careful planning is needed.


Some important missing points:
Careful planning wasn't done. Why not?
Didn't even include the starting temperature in the plan?
Worse of all, missed the Plan B. What if EA at _________ doesn't work?



goldbrick said:
I wonder if the problem was with the EA station, the car's electronics or if things just shut down because the battery was too cold.


EA stations in colder places have charged cars without issue.
Automotive electronics is usually good at -40C, and often good to -55C.
Car was been driven, so traction battery is producing heat. Yes, batteries can get too cold, but that's usually the first charge, not the third.

Lots of stuff doesn't add up right.
 
Looking at the plug share map there are several l2 available in EU Claire. I am Sure the hotel close to the ea chargers would have let you charge for an hour. Giving you some room to get where you were going or at least warm the car.

Just an idea for next time. You might have had plug share only showing the DC chargers.
 
Some good ID4 updates coming... for those who's cars didn't just get melted or lost in the middle of the ocean (That can't possibly help the long lost Audi Q4 either, if some of those were finally on their way to the USA!)

https://insideevs.com/news/568191/vw-id4-plugcharge-bidirectional-charging/
 
"VW Halting EV Production This Week Amid Ukraine Supply Issues
Deliveries of electrical cable harnesses and other components made in Ukraine have stopped, so VW, Audi and Cupra EVs can't be built. "
https://insideevs.com/news/570472/ukraine-crisis-stops-vw-evproduction/

Also, the Felicity Ace sank (https://electrek.co/2022/02/28/vw-confirms-id4-electric-suvs-were-lost-cargo-ship-fire/) which had some ID.4's on-board.
 
Wow! not much interest in the ID.4 I guess.....no posts since March :(
Anyway, I saw a post on InsideEVs https://insideevs.com/news/602432/us-made-2023-volkswagen-id4-is-better-equipped-cheaper-37495-usd/ about the ID.4 that kind of got me interested but after checking out the options I'll probably just continue to wait for my Rav4 Prime on order. The article is touting the under $40k price for the base RWD model, actually under $30k if you can take full use of the $7500 tax credit. Of course after further digging to get my one must-have feature(a heated steering wheel) I'd have to basically get the top of the top of the line :x so now it would come to well over $50k pre-tax credit, a figure I was trying to stay under.
As the VW is RWD and no way I'd go back to RWD living in a snowy state, I'd be forced to get the AWD version, which I'd be OK with, but what I'm not OK with is being forced to get not only the AWD version but the PRO version ontop of that, just to get a stinkin' heated steering wheel. I'd also be forced to get a sunroof, which I really don't want for both cost and reduced headroom issues. Otherwise, it looks like a nice vehicle and at least for the base model, which does come pretty well equipped, the price is right. Not sure how liking of the VW brand as of late, with the dieselgate thing and all not to mention the spotty reliability, from what I've read, but the heated steering wheel is pretty much a required feature and I don't like being forced to gets lots of other things I don't care about or just don't want, to get it!
At least Toyota got that right with the Rav4(if I ever get it) the ability to get a somewhat base model and add a relatively inexpensive package to get something my base Leaf S had almost a decade ago, I do like the idea of a heated windshield(on the top line VW) and factory trailer hitch, and then there's the question if VW will even sell the ID.4 in my NON CAFE state, something that lots of other sellers refuse to do but again not Toyota, Toyota just makes it nearly impossible to get............. :(
 
As you probably know, Toyota crossed 200k EV's recently. Do you have a delivery date yet? It would stink to get your car in the 'window' between when the $7500 starts to drop out and before the new credit is implemented, assuming the bill authorizing it passes.
 
goldbrick said:
As you probably know, Toyota crossed 200k EV's recently. Do you have a delivery date yet? It would stink to get your car in the 'window' between when the $7500 starts to drop out and before the new credit is implemented, assuming the bill authorizing it passes.
No date whatsoever :( It sounds like I'd have until November? for the current $7500 to work and I'm hoping the extension would kick in before then? I agree, it would kind of suck to lose the $3750 difference if I got caught in between but at this point I just want the new vehicle! Then I also worry about the new $7500 as doesn't that require a certain percentage of the battery be made in the US? If so I'm not sure it is with Toyota as I believe they are still made in Japan, unless they got the new Rav4 plant up and running in the US, as they were talking about back when we ordered it.......
 
I dragged my wife to a VW dealership today to check out the ID.4. We spent quite a bit of time with the sales person before each of us decided to skip the test drive. I'll cancel my reservation today. I'll try to outline the reasons for our about face, but let me preface by saying neither of us have a negative impression overall of the car, it is more a matter of deciding it is not a good fit for us, that the car is not good value, and it lacks features we want.

Positive
Large, functional cargo space. That was reason #1 to consider it in the first place
Cargo rails on roof. I want the option to carry 8 - 10 foot long lumber and conduit.
More than enough towing capacity for my usage

Negative
Economy flavor SUV with $50k price tag (AWD trim, etc)
SUV character. it feels like sitting in a truck. Many like it, we do not.
This is a large vehicle, 'compact SUV' branding aside. That comes with the large cargo area. I think we inadvertently biased ourselves against the car size by getting used to a Bolt these last few weeks. It is a tank of a vehicle. If I was trying to be negative I would say "large, bulky, heavy, clumsy, and low-cost quality."
Plastic ("V-Tech Leatherette") upholstery in all the more expensive trims. Ughh. I wanted cloth, but would have agreed to leather.
No option for ventilated seats
No option for phone control of windows
No heat pump for winter. No pack pre-conditioning

My motivation to consider the car in the first place was 1, an offer to sell our new Bolt at a $3k profit; and 2, a notion that since we downsized to one car for our household, it should be able to do more of our total demands than the Bolt is able. In the end I reverted back to my stance that the Bolt was a better fit for us: the best vehicle for our daily usage, and rentals for the remainder.
 
Nice review Sage, even though I've never sat in one, I agree on several things you brought up.
I'm also not a fan of -Vinyl- no matter what they call them. I agree, cloth first and Leather if I had to, but I believe VW has had a long history of using Vinyl seats.
Interesting no ventilated seats, not even on the top trim models, like a heated steering wheel, more and more upper trim cars are starting to come with ventilated seats.
No heat pump! again almost a must IMO, especially for an ALL EV where range could be a real issue, I guess for a PHEV it's less important but it was still a fairly strong selling point on the Toyota Primes for me.
I didn't even know cars had phone controls of windows! is that so you can remotely close them in case of rain? if so, nice idea.
While probably too big for you, I for one will be interested to see what becomes of the VW Buzz. At one point it would have been at the top of my list but as QC'ing and even remote L2 charging is very lacking in my state and in Western ON CA where we like to occasionally go, at least for now I feel a PHEV is the only way to get us down to 1 vehicle. Although I suppose a rental or even switching cars with a friend for our twice/year-long drives might be an option too......we'll see, a EV with a 200+ mile range opens up much more options than our 60(40 when very cold) mile current EVs that are just too constraining to even consider just one vehicle.
 
jjeff said:
I didn't even know cars had phone controls of windows! is that so you can remotely close them in case of rain? if so, nice idea.

I know about it from my Tesla ownership. It is one of those features you never considered but quickly grow to love when you have it. Rain was one reason to use the feature. The more common one for us was summer heat control in the cabin. I park facing the sun with a sun heat shield on the front windshield, and I open the windows about an inch for ventilation. It is pretty darned awesome to remotely close the windows a couple minutes before car use and turn on cabin cooling. You get to enter a nicely cooled cabin, and do not use any more energy than had you entered the cabin and then turned on cooling.
 
jjeff said:
No date whatsoever :( It sounds like I'd have until November? for the current $7500 to work and I'm hoping the extension would kick in before then?
Full $7500 until 9/30/22 for Toyota up until Biden signs the IRA. If you have a binding agreement with the dealer before Biden signs, you can use the old tax laws if you take delivery later. Once Biden signs, a lot of vehicles will be ineligible since they're built overseas: Hyundais, Kias, Nissan Ariya, Polestars, Toyotas, Volvos, and VWs. When they are built in NA, they will be eligible again.
 
The one gotcha will be the amount of battery materials that are sourced in the US but that provision doesn't start until 2023 or 2024 (can't find a reference ATM).
 
I haven't been following the tax credit changes which have been confusing and a moving target but...
Triggerhappy007 said:
jjeff said:
No date whatsoever :( It sounds like I'd have until November? for the current $7500 to work and I'm hoping the extension would kick in before then?
Full $7500 until 9/30/22.
https://electrek.co/2022/08/07/senate-improves-ev-tax-credit-in-largest-climate-bill-ever/ has some claims that could affect a lot of people, if true/it comes true. Search that article several times for this week. If all that stuff didn't happen, I'd have agreed with you about the part I quoted.

Is Electrek wrong?

And, since I'm not in the market, the changes don't interest me much. If the income cap part I heard about comes true, I will become ineligible anyway.
 
"This article previously said that the credit would remain unchanged this year, but while much of the bill takes effect next year, the domestic assembly requirement goes into effect immediately upon enactment of the bill, so foreign-made EVs will need a signed purchase order before that time in order to qualify for the current credit"

That's the way I understand it as well, meaning the moment it is signed, there will be almost NO EVs with a tax credit, then next January, Chevy and tesla will get vehicles back on the credit list.

Consumers Reports has a list for what they think will probably qualify, and its not a big list.

I'll post it below - this list would be the "larger" effective list come January. After the Bill is signed, but before January, only a subset of this will qualify.

Cadillac Lyriq (only if it is classified as an SUV)

Chevrolet Blazer EV

Chevrolet Bolt

Chevrolet Bolt EUV

Chevrolet Silverado EV (with certain options and trim levels)

Ford F-150 Lightning (with certain options and trim levels)

Ford Mustang Mach-E

Nissan Leaf

Rivian R1S (with certain options and trim levels)

Rivian R1T (with certain options and trim levels)

Tesla Cybertruck (with certain options and trim levels)

Tesla Model 3 (with certain options and trim levels)

Tesla Model Y (only if it is classified as an SUV, and only with certain options and trim levels)

Volkswagen ID.4 (only 2023+ models made in Tennessee)
 
Well, I finally did it. I placed a pre-order for a 2023 ID4. White Pro Model, Grey and Black interior. No options. Closest dealer promised no add-ons or mark-ups on pre-orders. Delivery says Q4. I still reserve the right to buy something else, IF something else can be found.

All in all, it should be a nice step up though from our 2018 Leaf. I'm loosing two things that I am aware of - I am loosing the heated steering wheel, which is a bummer, and the power seats. I honestly don't care that much about the power seats. I would still like the steering wheel, but I don't see the value in paying another 7k just for that feature.

What we will get is far more capable range, CCS, much faster DC fast charging, newer safety suite, and a cooled battery.


My 2018 leaf will be for sale - if there is anyone around the SoCal/Central High desert who is really, truly interested, let me know. Otherwise I'm going to try a few of the online ones and see the prices they offer.
 
cwerdna said:
I haven't been following the tax credit changes which have been confusing and a moving target but...
Triggerhappy007 said:
jjeff said:
No date whatsoever :( It sounds like I'd have until November? for the current $7500 to work and I'm hoping the extension would kick in before then?
Full $7500 until 9/30/22.
https://electrek.co/2022/08/07/senate-improves-ev-tax-credit-in-largest-climate-bill-ever/ has some claims that could affect a lot of people, if true/it comes true. Search that article several times for this week. If all that stuff didn't happen, I'd have agreed with you about the part I quoted.

Is Electrek wrong?

And, since I'm not in the market, the changes don't interest me much. If the income cap part I heard about comes true, I will become ineligible anyway.
Yeah, so much happened in that last 2 weeks. I couldn't believe they passed the bill so fast. I have updated my reply above.

The income cap is a good problem to have. Congratulations on doing so well with your career. I wished I had that problem like you. ;)
 
Re: income cap... well, I do work for a company that openly advertises they pay very well.

Unfortunately, Bay Area companies are forced to pay tech workers very high salaries to compete with others and because cost of housing is insane here. So, to get people to come here, you have to pay high, otherwise you can't afford to live here. But then when you pay high, you can "afford" the crazy high housing prices, creating a viscous cycle. I'm not technically a software engineer but I've heard anecdotal reports of those earning at my company MUCH more than me.

But, with high pay at my company, expectations are pretty high, as well. Take look at http://levels.fyi for software engineer.

Re: housing, take a look at https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/real-estate/bay-area-home-prices/. At some other the "cheaper" places, Richmond is a pretty dangerous area. Some of Oakland is very bad. There are shootings and homicides there pretty often. Oakland also has probs like https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/frustrated-businesses-say-oaklands-pearmain-street-is-a-dangerous-dumping-ground/. Those aren't technically in Silicon Valley as they're kinda far.
 
My niece lives in Silicon Valley, so I have heard about the cost of living and taxes.

Starting from $150k gross salary, a person taxed as a single pays ~ $50k in combined federal, state, and FICA taxes. Housing is $2 - $4k a month. It would not be hard to spend $1k a month on food and utilities, leaving many of those workers with $3k - $4k a month after those basics are paid. Add in other somewhat basics like a car and a couple of insurances, and these people do not feel well off. If they get laid off, they are in deep doodoo.

YMMV, but I would find SV and its salaries fairly ulcer inducing, mostly due to the repercussions of getting laid off. And it would not be easy or quick to build up enough savings to coast to the next job.
 
My favorite story about google is how many employees live in RV's in the parking lot at the GooglePlex since they cannot afford a house locally. At least that's the story I heard from a google employee who moved to Boulder from CA due to housing prices.

It's been a while but anyone who has been in the tech business a while (ok, decades.... ;) ) remembers times when every company was laying off people and it was hard to find a job. I don't wish that on anyone but until you've been through it, it is easy to forget that good times don't always last forever.
 
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