Ford announces BEV F150 and Transit van

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LeftieBiker said:
<SIGH>. Not necessarily. Please don't make me follow you around all day, posting that no, the bill isn't dead, just postponed. The odds of it passing were long from Day one.

I'm just going by his own words, and he said the bill is dead.

Are you saying a politician would lie?? 🤔
 
danrjones said:
Deliveries of the Lightning were officially delayed until next September.

I have seen nothing to indicate delayed deliveries. Where did you see this information? Ford still offically says spring.
 
Back on Dec 3rd +/_ there was a bunch of articles. But now there are also articles saying it isn't delayed. I have no idea which it really is, though the info on gouging seems to be valid.
 
GCC:
Ford begins full production of F-150 Lightning electric pickup; planned annual run rate of 150k at Rouge Center

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2022/04/20220426-lightning.html


Ford has begun full production of F-150 Lightning electric pickup at the ultra-modern Rouge Electric Vehicle Center within Ford’s historic Rouge Complex. Ford has 200,000 reservations for the Lightning and is expanding the Rouge Electric Vehicle Center to ramp up production to a planned annual run rate of 150,000 in 2023. . . .

Ford is on track to deliver more than 2 million electric vehicles annually by 2026, equal to about one-third of the company’s global volume, on the way to 50% by 2030.

With acceleration from zero to 60 mph in the mid-4 second range with the extended-range battery, the freedom of a 10-kilowatt smart power plant on wheels, a starting price less than $40,000 before available tax credits and software updates that will make it even better over time, F-150 Lightning is attracting new customers to Ford. . . .


My friend who's been leasing PHEVs for the past 7 or 8 years recently told me he planned to get a Lightning when his current (X5 xDrive 45E) lease is up next year. I asked him why, as although he'd previously told me he was going to get a BEV next time, he has zero need for a pickup or any vehicle that big. Apparently the Lightning falls into a higher weight class that gives him maximum incentives on a business lease. Definitely not what incentives should be encouraging.
 
^^^
Yes I remember a similar thing a while back from a couple of neighbors who had normal jobs but also ran side business of some sort. Neither needed more than a car or I suppose small SUV nowadays but both ended up with monster vehicles, one got a 1-ton dully PU with a large diesel engine he loved to warm for what seemed forever on cold mornings :roll: and the other had a Ford Excursion? again 1-ton, SUV and when I asked them why they purchased such large vehicles, they said because they both got large tax breaks and they had to be 1-ton or more!
What you said sounds similar but as the F150 is only a 1/2 ton, it must be a new take on the old rule, I agree, not what tax incentives should be doing, encouraging people to purchase much larger vehicles that they need!
 
IEVS:
Here's How Ford's F-150 Lightning Fights Range Anxiety While Towing
Ford claims the 2022 F-150 Lightning's smart technologies can accurately calculate remaining vehicle range using real time conditions.

https://insideevs.com/news/583299/here-how-ford-f150-lightning-fights-range-anxiety-while-towing/


. . . Ford claims the 2022 F-150 Lightning brings peace of mind to drivers as it can accurately calculate remaining vehicle range using real time conditions.

Three Ford-exclusive technologies work together to make this possible: Intelligent Range, FordPass Power My Trip and the available Onboard Scales. These features are said to give F-150 Lightning customers more accurate vehicle range estimates based on actual towing experiences and real-time energy use. In addition, Trailer Profile remembers their trailer specifics so the system can determine energy use for each trailer used.

The Intelligent Range feature is enhanced to work specifically with the needs of electric truck owners, collecting key vehicle data to determine how much electrical energy drivers are using in real time. This includes traffic speed, ambient temperature, available battery energy, plus driver habits, climate control use and route topography.

Furthermore, the system relies on cloud computing to access data from numerous sources, including Ford electric trucks that have towed on similar roads with similar trailers, resulting in more accurate vehicle range calculations over time, according to Ford.

Intelligent Range can also sample similar towing and energy use situations to further refine range calculations in real time. This happens automatically through the available Ford Onboard Scales feature, which communicates with Intelligent Range.

Ford says the system can be further refined via Ford Power-Up over-the-air software updates over time, as range data improves and the system becomes more robust.

To help drivers plan-out their trips, Ford is also offering the FordPass Power My Trip online mapping system. After the customer inputs their trailer information into Trailer Profile and enters the destination into the Sync 4/4A navigation system or smartphone via the FordPass app, Power My Trip automatically maps their towing route using Intelligent Range; the feature also provides charge points along the way, if needed. . . .


There's a video.
 
GCR:
2022 Ford F-150 Lightning: 320-mile EPA range beats Rivian R1T, efficiency meets it

https://www.greencarreports.com/new...g-epa-range-numbers-confirmed-up-to-320-miles


. . . With the optional 131-kwh extended-range battery pack, the Lightning will have 320 miles of range in XLT, Lariat and fleet-only Pro trim. That's better than the "up to 300 miles" Ford discussed when it unveiled the Lightning in 2021. That range estimate shrinks to 230 miles with the 98-kwh standard-range battery pack.

With the addition of MPGe figures, now just posted, it becomes clear that the F-150 Lightning in that top extended-range version achieves the same 70-MPGe (48 kwh/100 mi) rating as the Rivian R1T in its sole version currently available. The F-150 Lightning is more efficient than the R1T in the city cycle. It earns 78/63 MPGe ratings for city/highway, while the R1T earns 74/66 MPGe, respectively.

The high-end F-150 Lightning Platinum, which is only available with the extended-range battery pack, gets a 300-mile range estimate. That exceeds the 280-mile estimate mentioned when Ford first revealed Lightning battery pack details in December 2021.

Ford has said that on a 150-kw DC fast-charger, the Lightning will go from 15% to 80% in 41 minutes with the extended range pack, or 44 minutes with the standard-range pack. On an 80-amp Level 2 charger, it will be able to recover up to 30 miles of range per hour with the larger battery pack. . . .


Also GCR:
Ford F-150 Lightning home power backup system has a price tag, though installation cost will vary

https://www.greencarreports.com/new...er-backup-system-price-installation-will-vary


. . . Customers wanting to use their pickups as a backup power source will first need the Ford Charge Station Pro, Matthew Stover, the automaker's director of charging and energy services, said in a LinkedIn post. The 80-amp Charge Station Pro comes with versions with the Extended Range pack, but it's $1,310 additional for those with the Standard Range pack.

Then, customers will need the Home Integration System, which connects to the Charge Station Pro. The $3,895 system includes inverter, disconnect switch, and a battery pack (yet unspecified) to allow the functionality. When the power goes out, the system automatically switches over from the grid and begins drawing power from the truck.

The Home Integration System will be sold through Sunrun, with installation costs dependent on a customer's individual home setup, Stover noted. Add maybe $2,000 for installation and the full system will cost less than $6,000 for those getting the Extended Range truck. . . .

With 131 kwh from the Extended Range pack, a Lightning could be enough to provide backup power for large homes for several days. Ford is also studying bidirectional capability, and how such a system might help buffer the grid.


Talked to my friend again. He confirmed that the extended range version he plans to get, along with the V2H package/80A EVSE etc., is heavy enough that it qualifies as a commercial vehicle, and thus he'll get to write the entire cost off.
 
Just talked with both SunRun and also the largest Ford dealership in Houston (pickup capital of the World :lol: )
SunRun cannot give any details of their Home Integration System unless you have a Lightning reservation.
The Ford dealership does not expect to have any Lightnings delivered in 2022 and possibly 2023 unless through the "reservation" system for "pickup" at the dealership.

Appears Ford/SunRun may have a gold mine if they can actually deliver. Wonder if anyone has actually taken delivery or been given a hard date?
 
From InsideEVs:

Highway Ranges

Standard Range (all trims): 201.6 mi (324.4 km)
Extended Range (all trims, except of Platinum): 283.1 mi (455.5 km)
Platinum trim: 267.6 mi (430.6 km)

City Ranges

Standard Range (all trims): 253.2 mi (407.4 km)
Extended Range (all trims, except of Platinum): 350.2 mi (563.5 km)
Platinum trim: 326.5 mi (525.3 km)

https://insideevs.com/news/584918/ford-f150-lightning-epa-range-efficiency/

So if I'm on a road trip, that really means I have abut 70% of that highway range to use, or about 198 miles. But really, less, since EPA highway is not 70 mph, and doesn't include terrain. And then Ford says 45 minutes back to 80%. This is likely to be a fantastic in town work truck, but for nearly 80k I wouldn't want it for road trips. YMMV
 
Yes, hauling 4 dirt bikes in a trailer, plus riders and gear on a 1300 mile straight thru trip to Colorado might be a stretch for an EV pickup! (even with a great charge station network of the future). Likely always will be room for gas/diesel based vehicles - until legislated out of existence.
 
Wall Street Journal Rumble Seat 5/12:
"2022 Ford F-150 Lightning: The Everyman’s EV
Starting under $40,000, the electrified version of Ford’s popular F-series is aimed squarely at the heart of its steady commercial clientele. And it’s awesome, writes DanNeil.
YOU MIGHT NEED
to grab hold of something. You are about to read a rave review of
Ford’s first full-size electric pickup, the 2022 F-150 Lightning, which I drove at a press event in San Antonio earlier this month. My positivity may not be suitable for all audiences.
And if you already put down a bunch of money on a posh Rivian R1T electric pickup, before seeing the Lightning? Oh man, you should avert your eyes. After all the hype over Rivian last year, the Ford is the stump-humping electro-truck to want."
 
Marktm said:
Yes, hauling 4 dirt bikes in a trailer, plus riders and gear on a 1300 mile straight thru trip to Colorado might be a stretch for an EV pickup! (even with a great charge station network of the future). Likely always will be room for gas/diesel based vehicles - until legislated out of existence.


Yup, barring a huge improvement in batteries that sort of job is simply a poor fit for a BEV. As with long-haul trucking, an FCEV or PHFCEV is far better suited to the (ZEV) task.
 
GRA said:
Marktm said:
Yes, hauling 4 dirt bikes in a trailer, plus riders and gear on a 1300 mile straight thru trip to Colorado might be a stretch for an EV pickup! (even with a great charge station network of the future). Likely always will be room for gas/diesel based vehicles - until legislated out of existence.


Yup, barring a huge improvement in batteries that sort of job is simply a poor fit for a BEV. As with long-haul trucking, an FCEV or PHFCEV is far better suited to the (ZEV) task.

That's not too far from what Kyle Conner summarized in his latest video where he talks about driving all of the EV pickups, and what he thought was the best use case. Towing isn't / wasn't on his list. He fully admitted he was going to be using ICE / diesel for many more years for towing / heavy hauling.

He felt the Rivian, with a future max pack, was the camping / adventure truck. The Hummer was the muscle / tough guy champ, and the f150 was the around town do everything work truck.

Which left me wondering, what would I get? For full disclaimer, I've had f150s since forever, always an older used one. I use them for camping around the west, hiking trips, over nighting before hiking (which requires the 6.5 ft bed for me), and towing trailers such as our tent trailer, plus all kinds of around my house type work - hauling crap in the bed.

None of the three EV trucks would do these things - first, none of them are a 6.5' bed. Second, none have the legs to tow a trailer around the west. Third, even the long legged Rivian couldn't really to the camping trips I do, because the network around the west (especially Nevada) is still crap.

So we have a long ways to go, and I'll still be using my 2016 f150 for years to come I suspect. But I'm watching, and hoping.
 
danrjones said:
GRA said:
Marktm said:
Yes, hauling 4 dirt bikes in a trailer, plus riders and gear on a 1300 mile straight thru trip to Colorado might be a stretch for an EV pickup! (even with a great charge station network of the future). Likely always will be room for gas/diesel based vehicles - until legislated out of existence.


Yup, barring a huge improvement in batteries that sort of job is simply a poor fit for a BEV. As with long-haul trucking, an FCEV or PHFCEV is far better suited to the (ZEV) task.

That's not too far from what Kyle Conner summarized in his latest video where he talks about driving all of the EV pickups, and what he thought was the best use case. Towing isn't / wasn't on his list. He fully admitted he was going to be using ICE / diesel for many more years for towing / heavy hauling.

He felt the Rivian, with a future max pack, was the camping / adventure truck. The Hummer was the muscle / tough guy champ, and the f150 was the around town do everything work truck.

Which left me wondering, what would I get? For full disclaimer, I've had f150s since forever, always an older used one. I use them for camping around the west, hiking trips, over nighting before hiking (which requires the 6.5 ft bed for me), and towing trailers such as our tent trailer, plus all kinds of around my house type work - hauling crap in the bed.

None of the three EV trucks would do these things - first, none of them are a 6.5' bed. Second, none have the legs to tow a trailer around the west. Third, even the long legged Rivian couldn't really to the camping trips I do, because the network around the west (especially Nevada) is still crap.

So we have a long ways to go, and I'll still be using my 2016 f150 for years to come I suspect. But I'm watching, and hoping.


I confess I've never understood the large number of crew cabs with short beds. A C/SUV would seem a better fit for most people, and like you I demand full length lie-down room for trailhead sleeping, which the crew cabs lack (but my Forester has). My previous Subaru Wagon required my 6 foot self to sleep diagonally, and as I learned it's virtually impossible to park on any sloping ground so you've got either a flat bed or only a head to toe slope - there's always some side slope, which at least in my case meant I woke up in the morning with sore leg or butt muscles on one side from unconsciously bracing myself while I slept. Hence the requirement for room to sleep straight in the next car (the Forester), and if I ever did get a pickup it would have to have a 6.5' or longer bed.

Yeah, Nevada still sucks, unless you're willing to bet your trip that the only, often single FC for 120 miles in any direction will be both available and working (which includes you being able to initiate a charge). At least Fenner's finally open, so people don't have to bet on Needles or nothing when heading to AZ/NM on I-40. But until (at a minimum) we get the major US highways covered as well as the interstates, people like us will remain severely limited by BEVs.
 
News out today is that Ford is upping the F150 Lightning prices by between 6 to 8.5k across the board. 47k to 97k, but 80k plus to get the extended range. Which still comes nowhere close to the range of my 2016.

I'm sorry, but prices are just getting insane. A vehicle should not cost the price of a small house.
 
Not just the vehicle price, insurance price is pretty closely tied to the cost of the vehicle, and price to repair so expect insurance to be basically as much as home insurance!
Quite a few nice EVs are currently available but not nearly as many in my price range, under $50k which is more than double what my '13 Leaf cost after tax rebate, which was double what my previous '05 car cost and almost double what my previous new car cost in '94. Vehicle inflation has been several times the cost of inflation for many years and only getting worse :( I purchase a new car about every 10 years.
 
jjeff said:
Vehicle inflation has been several times the cost of inflation for many years and only getting worse

Any proof of that ? I'd also be interested in repair/maintenance data since CR at least seems to think that quality is improving across the industry. This is also a tricky question since you have to have some way to value tech improvements.

---
I was thinking about this question from my personal POV. In 2004 I bought the top-of-the-line Prius for $26k. 18 years later I bought the least expensive (ne: stripped) Bolt for $26k. Right around 200x the electric range, with vastly improved telematics and UI in the 'stripper' compared to the expensive model of 2004. The improved bang for buck is incredible. And a dollar today is worth at best half what it was in 2004.

I think it is easier to take a 2022 car and ask yourself what it would have cost had it been made in yesteryear. I have no doubt that the Bolt would have cost something nearing $200k in today's money. Heck, the battery capacity alone was close to $2,000 a kWh in today's money to the manufacturer
 
For those who need this sort of thing, via IEVS:
Ford F-150 Lightning And GMC Hummer EV Take On Toughest Towing Test

While it's a towing competition, it really boils down to electric driving range, and only one electric truck succeeds here.

https://insideevs.com/news/615686/hummer-ev-ford-f150-lightning-toughest-towing-test/


. . . For those unaware, TFL's "World's Toughest Towing Test" is obviously not the world's toughest towing test, but it gives a very good indication of what it's like to tow a heavy load a decent distance over steep terrain. Most people who drive an electric truck like the Hummer EV or F-150 Lightning probably won't be doing anything close to this on a normal basis, if ever.

The towing test takes place on the infamous Super Ike Gauntlet. It's an eight-mile stretch of Interstate I-70 in Colorado that heads up over 11,000 feet above sea level. The road has grades of up to 7 percent as it climbs a lofty 2,000 feet. Both trucks attempt to travel the full stretch in both directions. There's also an opportunity to charge, so each driver also has to decide if it makes sense to stop or not.

According to the EPA, the F-150 Lightning has an estimated range of 300 miles with its Extended Range battery pack. Meanwhile, the Hummer EV is rated at 329 miles per charge. The Ford can tow up to 10,000 pounds to the GMC's 7,500. . . .


The article's a teaser for the 31 minute video, but you can always skip to the end of that. These guys drove from Boulder to Golden, then I-70 through the Eisenhower tunnel to Silverthorne/Dillon. Thinking about it, it's been 30 years since I drove through the tunnel.
 
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