Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

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Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
GRA said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Do you actually believe that "self-charging electric vehicle" marketing non-sense? If you're incapable of thinking logically for yourself, rather relying on reports and someone else's words, then go away. You're insulting everyone else who actually put thought into their opinions.


I believe that an Electric Vehicle, by definition, is propelled partly or solely by an electric motor. How that motor is supplied with electricity determines the type of EV it is. If that's too much logical thinking for you, perhaps you should take your own advice. I put thought into my opinions, I assume you do the same, so act like an adult and stop the personal insults.

Your definition of "Electric Vehicle" doesn't move the needle on reducing carbon emissions, nor is it one that even Toyota adopts. They skirted around the issue by saying that their hybrids were "electrified". The fact that you would contort the definition beyond what Toyota would even claim, just to support your baseless claim (about Toyota knowing a thing-or-two, because they sold more EVs than anyone else) shows how defensive and unyielding you had become. You can't just make up your own set of "facts" to argue against basic physics. That's what children do when they were little.

I know I have insulted you in the past, but after re-reading my previous post, this time I had NOT. It was a statement of fact that was merely too embarrassing for you to accept, so you took it as an insult.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle


An electric vehicle (EV)[note 1] is an automotive vehicle that uses one or more electric motors for propulsion. It can be powered by a collector system, with electricity from extravehicular sources, or it can be powered autonomously by a battery (sometimes charged by solar panels, or by converting fuel to electricity using fuel cells or a generator).[1] EVs include, but are not limited to, road and rail vehicles, surface and underwater vessels, electric aircraft and electric spacecraft. . . .

Electricity sources

There are many ways to generate electricity, of varying costs, efficiency and ecological desirability.

Connection to generator plants

Direct connection to generation plants as is common among electric trains, trams, trolleybuses, and trolleytrucks (See also: overhead lines, third rail and conduit current collection)

Online electric vehicle collects power from electric power strips buried under the road surface through electromagnetic induction


Onboard generators and hybrid EVs

Generated on-board using a diesel engine: diesel–electric locomotive and diesel–electric multiple unit (DEMU)

Generated on-board using a fuel cell: fuel cell vehicle

Generated on-board using nuclear energy: nuclear submarines and aircraft carriers

Renewable sources such as solar power: solar vehicle


It is also possible to have hybrid EVs that derive electricity from multiple sources, such as:

On-board rechargeable electricity storage system (RESS) and a direct continuous connection to land-based generation plants for purposes of on-highway recharging with unrestricted highway range[31]

On-board rechargeable electricity storage system and a fueled propulsion power source (internal combustion engine): plug-in hybrid

For especially large EVs, such as submarines, the chemical energy of the diesel–electric can be replaced by a nuclear reactor. The nuclear reactor usually provides heat, which drives a steam turbine, which drives a generator, which is then fed to the propulsion. See Nuclear marine propulsion.

A few experimental vehicles, such as some cars and a handful of aircraft use solar panels for electricity. . . .


And so on. Your definition excludes numerous types of vehicles that are unquestionably electric, because the one common factor all EVs (other than Maglevs; if you want to argue they aren't EVs, be my guest) share is that, as the entry states at the beginning, they use "one or more electric motors for propulsion", to which I'd add "partly or solely" to clear up any possible doubt that the various types of hybrids also qualify.

Your definition of EV chooses to ignore most of the prefix letters that distinguish one type of EV from another, insisting that only one or two such prefixes, which you favor, qualify. Oh, and you can also admit that Toyota has built and sold more EVs than anyone else, primarily of the H(ybrid)EV subtype, but also including much smaller numbers of B-, PH- and FC- E(lectric) V(ehicle) subtypes. While you're doing that, I'll be spending some time tomorrow riding on an electric train which, presumably because it doesn't store electric energy on board but receives it continuously as needed via a third rail from an off-board generation source, you also don't consider an EV.
 
Wikipedia. Sad. Are you sure that Power Wheels hasn't beaten Toyota?

power-wheels-dune-racer.png
 
GRA said:
.
I believe

Learn to separate fact from fancy, logic from belief.

A hybrid is designed from top to bottom to be an efficient ICE. This is done by shifting the ICE power curve using stored energy, and it does not require a battery or electricity. Look up examples of hybrids using flywheels and pressurized tanks. In all cases the stored energy is first and foremost from fossil combustion.
 
GRA said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
GRA said:
I believe that an Electric Vehicle, by definition, is propelled partly or solely by an electric motor. How that motor is supplied with electricity determines the type of EV it is. If that's too much logical thinking for you, perhaps you should take your own advice. I put thought into my opinions, I assume you do the same, so act like an adult and stop the personal insults.

Your definition of "Electric Vehicle" doesn't move the needle on reducing carbon emissions, nor is it one that even Toyota adopts. They skirted around the issue by saying that their hybrids were "electrified". The fact that you would contort the definition beyond what Toyota would even claim, just to support your baseless claim (about Toyota knowing a thing-or-two, because they sold more EVs than anyone else) shows how defensive and unyielding you had become. You can't just make up your own set of "facts" to argue against basic physics. That's what children do when they were little.

I know I have insulted you in the past, but after re-reading my previous post, this time I had NOT. It was a statement of fact that was merely too embarrassing for you to accept, so you took it as an insult.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle


An electric vehicle (EV)[note 1] is an automotive vehicle that uses one or more electric motors for propulsion. It can be powered by a collector system, with electricity from extravehicular sources, or it can be powered autonomously by a battery (sometimes charged by solar panels, or by converting fuel to electricity using fuel cells or a generator).[1] EVs include, but are not limited to, road and rail vehicles, surface and underwater vessels, electric aircraft and electric spacecraft. . . .

Electricity sources

There are many ways to generate electricity, of varying costs, efficiency and ecological desirability.

Connection to generator plants

Direct connection to generation plants as is common among electric trains, trams, trolleybuses, and trolleytrucks (See also: overhead lines, third rail and conduit current collection)

Online electric vehicle collects power from electric power strips buried under the road surface through electromagnetic induction


Onboard generators and hybrid EVs

Generated on-board using a diesel engine: diesel–electric locomotive and diesel–electric multiple unit (DEMU)

Generated on-board using a fuel cell: fuel cell vehicle

Generated on-board using nuclear energy: nuclear submarines and aircraft carriers

Renewable sources such as solar power: solar vehicle


It is also possible to have hybrid EVs that derive electricity from multiple sources, such as:

On-board rechargeable electricity storage system (RESS) and a direct continuous connection to land-based generation plants for purposes of on-highway recharging with unrestricted highway range[31]

On-board rechargeable electricity storage system and a fueled propulsion power source (internal combustion engine): plug-in hybrid

I've highlighted the two key parts for you. A hybrid prius will not drive above 15mph on batteries alone.
 
If you think electric vehicles (BEV, FCEV, or even PHEV) are the means to a zero-emissions future, then hybrid vehicles will naturally have to be excluded, because 100% of their miles driven are through the energy derived from burning gasoline/diesel.
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
GRA said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Your definition of "Electric Vehicle" doesn't move the needle on reducing carbon emissions, nor is it one that even Toyota adopts. They skirted around the issue by saying that their hybrids were "electrified". The fact that you would contort the definition beyond what Toyota would even claim, just to support your baseless claim (about Toyota knowing a thing-or-two, because they sold more EVs than anyone else) shows how defensive and unyielding you had become. You can't just make up your own set of "facts" to argue against basic physics. That's what children do when they were little.

I know I have insulted you in the past, but after re-reading my previous post, this time I had NOT. It was a statement of fact that was merely too embarrassing for you to accept, so you took it as an insult.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle


An electric vehicle (EV)[note 1] is an automotive vehicle that uses one or more electric motors for propulsion. It can be powered by a collector system, with electricity from extravehicular sources, or it can be powered autonomously by a battery (sometimes charged by solar panels, or by converting fuel to electricity using fuel cells or a generator).[1] EVs include, but are not limited to, road and rail vehicles, surface and underwater vessels, electric aircraft and electric spacecraft. . . .

Electricity sources

There are many ways to generate electricity, of varying costs, efficiency and ecological desirability.

Connection to generator plants

Direct connection to generation plants as is common among electric trains, trams, trolleybuses, and trolleytrucks (See also: overhead lines, third rail and conduit current collection)

Online electric vehicle collects power from electric power strips buried under the road surface through electromagnetic induction


Onboard generators and hybrid EVs

Generated on-board using a diesel engine: diesel–electric locomotive and diesel–electric multiple unit (DEMU)

Generated on-board using a fuel cell: fuel cell vehicle

Generated on-board using nuclear energy: nuclear submarines and aircraft carriers

Renewable sources such as solar power: solar vehicle


It is also possible to have hybrid EVs that derive electricity from multiple sources, such as:

On-board rechargeable electricity storage system (RESS) and a direct continuous connection to land-based generation plants for purposes of on-highway recharging with unrestricted highway range[31]

On-board rechargeable electricity storage system and a fueled propulsion power source (internal combustion engine): plug-in hybrid

I've highlighted the two key parts for you. A hybrid prius will not drive above 15mph on batteries alone.



You have highlighted what are the key parts for you, based on the limited definition of "E(lectric) V(ehicle)" you (and many if not most) PEV enthusiasts accept - which requires substantial onboard energy storage by battery (and apparently now also the further ability to be propelled above 15 mph by electricity alone when supplied by an onboard battery) . I've pointed out that any such definition excludes whole categories of vehicles that are also EVs, which (by my general definition) is determined by how they are propelled, not by how or where the electricity they use to power their motor(s) is generated and/or stored.

Are electric trains, streetcars and trolley buses also not EVs, despite being solely propelled by electric motors and capable in most cases of speeds well in excess of 15 mph?

A BEV golfcart probably tops out at or below 15mph, as I suspect do many if not most BEV forklifts I've driven (none of the EV golf carts and forklifts I've driven are equipped with speedometers, but no great speed is needed or desired). Are these not electric vehicles?

Many pedal-assist electric bikes limit the battery assist to speeds below 15 mph or so while pedaling, others allow it up to around 20, while some electric bikes allow propulsion on battery alone up to about 30 mph without pedaling.

How about a non-hybrid FCEV?

Are you saying any or all of the above aren't E(lectric) V(ehicle)s? Any such claim is patently absurd.
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
If you think electric vehicles (BEV, FCEV, or even PHEV) are the means to a zero-emissions future, then hybrid vehicles will naturally have to be excluded, because 100% of their miles driven are through the energy derived from burning gasoline/diesel.


As all currently available FCEVs are hybrids of one form or another, your claim fails to hold up. Oh, and what if a PEV's battery is charged using on or off-board electricity solely generated by fossil fuels?
 
Both GCC:
DOE awards $24.9M to 6 projects to advance hydrogen technologies for electricity generation

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2022/05/20220520-doe.html


The US Department of Energy (DOE) will award $24.9 million in funding for six research and development projects to support the advancement of clean hydrogen for electricity generation. This includes improving capture of CO2 associated with hydrogen production from carbon-based resources and technologies to use hydrogen in gas turbines more efficiently for electricity generation.

The six industry-sponsored projects will fast-track the development of technologies that will improve the performance, reliability, and flexibility of existing and new hydrogen technologies. . . .


Details of each project are in the article.




Renault Scénic Vision hydrogen hybrid concept offers 75% smaller carbon footprint than a conventional BEV

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2022/05/20220519-renault.html


Renault unveiled its new Scénic Vision concept-car at the ChangeNOW summit in Paris. Its hybrid electric and hydrogen powertrain aims to reduce downtime related to energy recharging while reducing the carbon footprint, including the battery. Renault Scénic Vision is zero emission in production and in use with a 75% smaller carbon footprint than a conventional battery electric vehicle.

Renault Scenic Vision’s 160 kW electrically excited synchronous motor derives directly from Renault Megane E-TECH Electric’s motor and is made at the plant in Cléon. It uses no rare-earth elements, which helps to reduce its carbon footprint and create a responsible and sustainable ecosystem. The 40 kWh battery is recyclable and will be made in France by 2024 at the Renault ElectriCity Gigafactory. It is two times lighter, smaller and costs less than a battery for a similar electric vehicle.

The hybrid is equipped with a 16kW fuel cell. The H2-Tech technology is based on the range extender concept, which makes it possible to carry a battery that is twice as light, for the same range, thus contributing to decarbonization beyond the electrification of the vehicle. Although this solution is a vision for a passenger car, Renault Group through Hyvia (joint venture with Plug Power) already offers hydrogen solutions on LCVs.

In 2030 and beyond, once the network of hydrogen stations is large enough, you will be able to drive up to 800 km—or, for example, 750 km from Paris to Marseille—without stopping to charge the 40 kWh battery. You will only have to stop for 5 minutes or less to fill the hydrogen tank.

Renault Scenic Vision has an all-new platform that is purpose-designed to fit all the components: the electric motor, hydrogen engine, battery, fuel cell and hydrogen tank. The engine is at the rear, so there is enough space for the 2.5 kg hydrogen tank at the front; the fuel cell is under the floor, at the back of the platform, behind the battery.

Following on from the partnerships already entered into, this vehicle has a carbon footprint that is 75% smaller than that of an electric vehicle such as the Megane E-Tech electric. Its battery is up to 60% less carbon-intensive than an equivalent battery, thanks to the use of short loops and low-carbon sourcing of minerals, and the use of low-carbon energy to assemble and produce the battery. . . .

70% of the materials used in the vehicle are recycled and more than 95% of the vehicle is recyclable, including the battery. The floor of the vehicle was composed by agglomerating plastic scraps from other sources (milk bottles, plastic pipes, etc.). On the whole vehicle, 30% of the plastic is biosourced. The vehicle’s fittings are made of recycled carbon from the aeronautical industry.

Short loops are being deployed on strategic materials such as platinum, copper, aluminum and steel as well as the battery’s minerals. Tires are sourced from a GNSPR member manufacturer, committed to environmental and human rights responsibility. The fuel cell tank is made of carbon fiber from recycled paper waste.


While this would work well for people with long commutes, as with the BMW i3 REx I think the battery capacity is excessively large for the typical user, and the car would strike a better balance for all-around use with 1/2 or 1/3 the battery and a somewhat more powerful stack (plus a bigger tank that provides 4 hours or so of cruising range, assuming there's room), to provide normal freeway cruising power without needing to draw on the battery; the battery should only be used in that long-range case to provide extra accel and power for climbing, but should be adequate (range, accel) for all routine local use by itself. IOW, a PHFCEV instead of a BEV w/FC REx. ISTM the latter makes more sense for local commercial delivery vehicles with slower average speeds, frequent stops and only the occasional need to extend the range, like the mail trucks that Renault originally deployed this type of system in.
 
GRA said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
If you think electric vehicles (BEV, FCEV, or even PHEV) are the means to a zero-emissions future, then hybrid vehicles will naturally have to be excluded, because 100% of their miles driven are through the energy derived from burning gasoline/diesel.


As all currently available FCEVs are hybrids of one form or another, your claim fails to hold up. Oh, and what if a PEV's battery is charged using on or off-board electricity solely generated by fossil fuels?

Well pardon me for failing to be specific enough. I thought the context would've been pretty clear that the only hybrids being excluded are the non-plugin combustion "cars". So please focus on the point and reconsider according to:

If you think electric vehicles (BEV, FCEV, or even PHEV) are the means to a zero-emissions future, then combustion-hybrid non-plugin automotive vehicles will naturally have to be excluded, because 100% of their miles drive are through the energy derived from burning gasoline/diesel.


And if some idiot wants to pay $6/gal of gasoline to charge their EV with 50 cents worth of electricity (through a generator), just because they can, that's their prerogative. That doesn't change the fact that the vehicle itself can run entirely on electricity pulled from the sun (like mine). Something that a combustion-hybrid-non-plugin car can NEVER do.
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
GRA said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
If you think electric vehicles (BEV, FCEV, or even PHEV) are the means to a zero-emissions future, then hybrid vehicles will naturally have to be excluded, because 100% of their miles driven are through the energy derived from burning gasoline/diesel.


As all currently available FCEVs are hybrids of one form or another, your claim fails to hold up. Oh, and what if a PEV's battery is charged using on or off-board electricity solely generated by fossil fuels?

Well pardon me for failing to be specific enough. I thought the context would've been pretty clear that the only hybrids being excluded are the non-plugin combustion "cars". So please focus on the point and reconsider according to:

If you think electric vehicles (BEV, FCEV, or even PHEV) are the means to a zero-emissions future, then combustion-hybrid non-plugin automotive vehicles will naturally have to be excluded, because 100% of their miles drive are through the energy derived from burning gasoline/diesel.


And if some idiot wants to pay $6/gal of gasoline to charge their EV with 50 cents worth of electricity (through a generator), just because they can, that's their prerogative. That doesn't change the fact that the vehicle itself can run entirely on electricity pulled from the sun (like mine). Something that a combustion-hybrid-non-plugin car can NEVER do.


Who says you've got to pay to run your own generator? If you charge your car mostly at home at night, as the majority currently do, especially off-peak, odds are the grid electricity is substantially or even, depending on where you live, solely being generated by burning fossil fuels. 40% or so of the world's PEVs are in China, and in 2021 China got 51.8% of its electricity by coal and another 4.5% from NG. Most of the baseload is coal, plus nukes.

Not that you've got to travel to China:
Coal-fired power plants account for nearly all of West Virginia's electricity generation, and the 10 largest power plants in the state, by capacity, are coal-fired. Most of the rest of the state's electricity generation is from hydroelectric, wind, and natural gas-fired facilities. West Virginia is one of only a half-dozen states east of the Mississippi River that does not have any nuclear power plants. . . .

West Virginia typically generates more electricity than it consumes. Although more than two-fifths of West Virginia households use electricity as their primary source for home heating, retail sales to all customers account for less than half of West Virginia's net electricity generation. As a result, West Virginia is a net supplier of electricity to the regional grid. West Virginia is a leader in the nation in net interstate sales of electricity.
https://www.energywv.org/wv-energy-...nts account,and natural gas-fired facilities.


None of which is to suggest that PEVs and FC(H)EVs aren't part of the means to a zero emission future, as they're essential to it, but as usual the devil's in the details. Oh, and then there are combustion ICEs and/or hybrids which burn H2, and then. . . .
 
GRA said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
GRA said:
As all currently available FCEVs are hybrids of one form or another, your claim fails to hold up. Oh, and what if a PEV's battery is charged using on or off-board electricity solely generated by fossil fuels?

Well pardon me for failing to be specific enough. I thought the context would've been pretty clear that the only hybrids being excluded are the non-plugin combustion "cars". So please focus on the point and reconsider according to:

If you think electric vehicles (BEV, FCEV, or even PHEV) are the means to a zero-emissions future, then combustion-hybrid non-plugin automotive vehicles will naturally have to be excluded, because 100% of their miles drive are through the energy derived from burning gasoline/diesel.


And if some idiot wants to pay $6/gal of gasoline to charge their EV with 50 cents worth of electricity (through a generator), just because they can, that's their prerogative. That doesn't change the fact that the vehicle itself can run entirely on electricity pulled from the sun (like mine). Something that a combustion-hybrid-non-plugin car can NEVER do.


Who says you've got to pay to run your own generator? If you charge your car mostly at home at night, as the majority currently do, especially off-peak, odds are the grid electricity is substantially or even, depending on where you live, solely being generated by burning fossil fuels. 40% or so of the world's PEVs are in China, and in 2021 China got 51.8% of its electricity by coal and another 4.5% from NG. Most of the baseload is coal, plus nukes.

Not that you've got to travel to China:
Coal-fired power plants account for nearly all of West Virginia's electricity generation, and the 10 largest power plants in the state, by capacity, are coal-fired. Most of the rest of the state's electricity generation is from hydroelectric, wind, and natural gas-fired facilities. West Virginia is one of only a half-dozen states east of the Mississippi River that does not have any nuclear power plants. . . .

West Virginia typically generates more electricity than it consumes. Although more than two-fifths of West Virginia households use electricity as their primary source for home heating, retail sales to all customers account for less than half of West Virginia's net electricity generation. As a result, West Virginia is a net supplier of electricity to the regional grid. West Virginia is a leader in the nation in net interstate sales of electricity.
https://www.energywv.org/wv-energy-...nts account,and natural gas-fired facilities.


None of which is to suggest that PEVs and FC(H)EVs aren't part of the means to a zero emission future, as they're essential to it, but as usual the devil's in the details. Oh, and then there are combustion ICEs and/or hybrids which burn H2, and then. . . .

None of the existing combustion ICE's and/or hybrids (except for prototypes and experimental vehicles) can burn H2.

And thank you for showing your true colors as you continue to parrot the fossil fuel talking points. Although coal and natural gas power plants are inherently more efficient in both electricity production and emissions control than an ICE car, AND that the grid is getting cleaner as more coal power plants get decommissioned (even China's coal contribution is down from 5 years ago), YOU live in California, not West Virginia nor China. The devil might be in the details, but choosing the worst case scenario to illustrate a niche condition is an open window into your mindset.

Since we first started arguing over 5 years ago, you've probably already traveled 20,000 miles (4k per year) on gasoline, assuming you drive gently and get about 27mpg, you would've burned 740 gallons of gasoline in that time, producing 18,500 lbs of CO2 (20lbs for the combustion, and another 5lbs for the refining of crude into gasoline but ignores delivery emissions) during that time. Building a BEV produces 6,000lbs more CO2 than building a gas car. Congratulations you've found a way to pollute more in your 5 years of solo biking and bus-riding than I have in my 75,000 miles (CA's grid gives me the option to choose which power producer gets my utility dollars) of raising a family.

Yes, we need to clean up the grid, but that's not a reason to keep ICE around.

Having said all that, this has been a series segues after segues from why Toyota was just throwing good money after bad by investigating combustion H2 engines.
 
GRA said:
If you charge your car mostly at home at night, as the majority currently do, especially off-peak, odds are the grid electricity is substantially or even, depending on where you live, solely being generated by burning fossil fuels.
Another good reason for building more nukes.
 
oxothuk said:
GRA said:
If you charge your car mostly at home at night, as the majority currently do, especially off-peak, odds are the grid electricity is substantially or even, depending on where you live, solely being generated by burning fossil fuels.
Another good reason for building more nukes.

Both hydro and geothermal works at night as well.
And EV's charge whenever electricity is cheapest.
If it becomes cheaper during the duck-curve around noon, then charge them at that time.
No need to build more nukes. Instead, utility companies need to pass along demand pricing to their customers.
 
When we charge at night (which we usually do) we are guaranteeing that the power we use comes from the old hydro dam 3/4 of a mile from us. Rather than juggling loads, though, we need to build solar powered charging stations that use panels on office building, factories...wherever people park their EVs while working.
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Instead, utility companies need to pass along demand pricing to their customers.
'Demand' pricing is a label used in the industry to refer to per kW charges.
You probably mean a TOU schedule, something I agree with 100%
 
SageBrush said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Instead, utility companies need to pass along demand pricing to their customers.
'Demand' pricing is a label used in the industry to refer to per kW charges.
You probably mean a TOU schedule, something I agree with 100%

Oh right. And sort-of. TOU is the current demand shifting scheme where the price of electricity is dependent on blocks of time, which are divided into the simple categories of peak, off-peak, and super-off-peak. I meant something closer to market pricing, where electricity prices vary by the hour (or every 2 hrs) based on predicted supply of solar and wind. That kind of mechanism doesn't really help any of the existing customers, but would allow EV's to work double-duty as overflow energy storage as they would sop up electricity when production outpaces demand. That's why my original name for it was "demand pricing".
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Oh right. And sort-of. TOU is the current demand shifting scheme where the price of electricity is dependent on blocks of time, which are divided into the simple categories of peak, off-peak, and super-off-peak. I meant something closer to market pricing, where electricity prices vary by the hour (or every 2 hrs) based on predicted supply of solar and wind. That kind of mechanism doesn't really help any of the existing customers, but would allow EV's to work double-duty as overflow energy storage as they would sop up electricity when production outpaces demand. That's why my original name for it was "demand pricing".

The optimal in energy pricing was the "Griddy" contract that was available until the "Texas freeze" that demonstrated how dangerous such a contract can be with ERCOT's pricing schemes. Many had to pay 10,000's of $$s with the $9/kWh (plus) that ERCOT now has reduced (big deal!) to $4/kWh :shock: . Such contracts with battery storage similar to the upper tier of EVs combined with substantial home/business solar would have made money instead - in many cases (my case in particular). AND supported the grid effectively if the utility companies get out of the way. Just IMO.
 
Marktm said:
The optimal in energy pricing was the "Griddy" contract that was available until the "Texas freeze" that demonstrated how dangerous such a contract can be with ERCOT's pricing schemes. Many had to pay 10,000's of $$s with the $9/kWh (plus) that ERCOT now has reduced (big deal!) to $4/kWh :shock: . Such contracts with battery storage similar to the upper tier of EVs combined with substantial home/business solar would have made money instead - in many cases (my case in particular). AND supported the grid effectively if the utility companies get out of the way. Just IMO.
Battery storage will not last long during a freeze if you live in an uninsulated shanty Those folks are used to wasting thousands of kWh a month during *normal* winters to stay warm, and they have NO idea what a kWh is, let alone its price. Welcome to Texas.
 
GRA said:
GCC:
Mercedes-Benz cites the project as a prime example of the symbiosis of battery and fuel-cell technology and a key step on the road to CO2 neutrality. . . .

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/rolls-royce/358527/new-rolls-royce-spectre-prototype-ride-review

It’s the silence that grabs you. Under hard acceleration, not even a distant whine can be heard from the electric motor driving the front wheels of the new Rolls-Royce Spectre. We’re approaching 80mph and there’s a merest sensation of motion from somewhere beneath us, and a faint whoosh from somewhere around the A-pillar. It’s almost unnerving.

Jörg Wunder, the engineer leading the project and the man driving us around the Miramas test track in southern France, is pleased, but not satisfied. He acknowledges the wind rush: “It’s a seal in the door frame,” he says. “We have improvements already identified, and we’re going to roll them into the next series of upgrades.”

More than 105 kWh battery.

Price? If you need to ask...
 
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