DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
Leaf may live on 2 or 3 more years at this rate. That is wonderful news for the continuation of Chademo.
Nissan Ariya to be announced for the JDM July 15, 2020
- Thread starter OrientExpress
- Start date
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cwerdna
Well-known member
https://experienceariya.com/ - I only learned of this yesterday and some of these were happening already this weekend. There are only 5 venues left.
[*]
Thanks for posting this. I registered for Friday 7/30 in Orlando.
cwerdna said:
Thanks for posting this. I registered for Friday 7/30 in Orlando.
cwerdna
Well-known member
Bay Area one finally opened up for those w/o reg codes, so I was able to register. All that's left for San Mateo is Aug 7th.
cwerdna
Well-known member
Nissan Ariya (91 kWh) Slightly Disappoints In Bjørn's 1,000 km Challenge
The result is only slightly better than in the case of the 66 kWh battery version.
https://insideevs.com/news/615206/nissan-ariya-91kwh-1000km-challenge/
The result is only slightly better than in the case of the 66 kWh battery version.
https://insideevs.com/news/615206/nissan-ariya-91kwh-1000km-challenge/
cwerdna said:
The Ariya consumed 450 Wh/mile in 10 - 12C weather. The DCFC rate is mediocre, but the real story is the high consumption. I think that the Ariya flounders in cold-ish weather, and I suspect that things get comparably even worse in truly cold weather.
I've said it many times before, and it remains true: an EV is only as good as its cold weather performance.
knightmb
Well-known member
cwerdna said:
I'm glad someone had the time to do the challenge, but there is one big variable left out, the charging station itself. They all function differently, beyond the control of the EV. While the EV might be telling it "send me all you got", we know from our experience here that not all stations can even manage full power without overheating due to lack of maintenance, clogged air filters, etc.
cwerdna
Well-known member
https://insideevs.com/news/614316/nissan-ariya-base-1000km-11hours/ is with the smaller (66 kWh) battery version. I haven't had time to watch either video other than a few seconds here or there.
Hopefully, we can have further confirmation or test results from others, maybe elsewhere about the charging rates.
Hopefully, we can have further confirmation or test results from others, maybe elsewhere about the charging rates.
frontrangeleaf
Well-known member
Got a note today from Boulder Nissan - they have their first Ariya available for test drives. Might just do that this weekend.
-b
-b
goldbrick
Well-known member
Cool. I'll have to swing by to take a look at it.
Please post what they are asking for it and what rebates are available if you would. Asking for a friend.
Please post what they are asking for it and what rebates are available if you would. Asking for a friend.
frontrangeleaf
Well-known member
We drove the Ariya last Saturday at Boulder Nissan.
It's an "Evolve +" model - FWD, nicely equipped. Bigger than we'd like, but no doubt just what most would be looking for. Rides nice. Drives nice. Nice interior. Nowhere near the "giddyup" that our Leaf+ has. (It's almost 1000# heavier and makes similar power.) 87kWh battery. EPA estimates ~290 miles of range.
Not eligible for any Fed rebates. Sales guys concerned about that. They're expecting 30 of these next month. Asking $52k for this one.
We mostly just wanted a data point. Not shopping actively here. It does have a heat pump. They didn't know about V2H support. Probably not just yet.
Given our experience with the Leaf, we will be leaning toward V2H support as a future-proofing feature (adding solar to our house, and losing confidence in the reliability of the grid), and heat pump required given where we live. Bigger battery is better in my mind. Works less hard, mitigates concerns about degradation and resale. The trade-offs against efficiency are more than worth it in my mind. From a practical standpoint, the bigger battery is almost a no-brainer, despite the increased cost, but I couldn't see paying for an even larger one either.
It's an "Evolve +" model - FWD, nicely equipped. Bigger than we'd like, but no doubt just what most would be looking for. Rides nice. Drives nice. Nice interior. Nowhere near the "giddyup" that our Leaf+ has. (It's almost 1000# heavier and makes similar power.) 87kWh battery. EPA estimates ~290 miles of range.
Not eligible for any Fed rebates. Sales guys concerned about that. They're expecting 30 of these next month. Asking $52k for this one.
We mostly just wanted a data point. Not shopping actively here. It does have a heat pump. They didn't know about V2H support. Probably not just yet.
Given our experience with the Leaf, we will be leaning toward V2H support as a future-proofing feature (adding solar to our house, and losing confidence in the reliability of the grid), and heat pump required given where we live. Bigger battery is better in my mind. Works less hard, mitigates concerns about degradation and resale. The trade-offs against efficiency are more than worth it in my mind. From a practical standpoint, the bigger battery is almost a no-brainer, despite the increased cost, but I couldn't see paying for an even larger one either.
OldManCan said:
Tough ? How about nigh impossible
The 330 mile Model Y LR is $53k msrp before fed tax credit
-- 4.8 seconds 0 -60, 4.2 sec with $2k option
-- Octovalve
-- Supercharging
-- Pre-conditioning
-- And a slew of other advantages. I made this table for another purpose but it details the AWD/LR contents
$40k for the Ariya might interest some people
frontrangeleaf
Well-known member
Agree that $40k would be a fairer price for what we drove last weekend, although I'm not sure how to figure current pricing given all the up and down we've seen.
That said, there is also a long list of negatives weighing the scales on the other side of things with Tesla vehicles. Anything Tesla is just not going to find its way into my garage at any price. At this point, I'm done with Elon.
The interior regression on controls was already a deal-killer in my mind. His antics more recently have just piled on. I'm done with Elon.
The sooner he steps away from Tesla, the better. Tesla needs a Gwynne Shotwell. Elon needs to stay sober and take *all* of his meds *all* of the time.
I may still consider their Powerwall (on the back of the garage, lol), at some point in the future, but am actively watching for another option there as well. No rush in either case. Battery tech continues to advance in lots of places. Interesting times ahead. For now, the Powerwall product appears to be the clear leader, and if installed by a reputable vendor, you can have a decent experience. There are no other options for their cars - you deal with the insanity you signed up for.
I don't have patience for that kind of customer service, or lack thereof. Nissan has had its issues as well, certainly, but our dealer has been quite good. No complaints with them or the Leaf. Otherwise we'd be long gone by now.
That said, there is also a long list of negatives weighing the scales on the other side of things with Tesla vehicles. Anything Tesla is just not going to find its way into my garage at any price. At this point, I'm done with Elon.
The interior regression on controls was already a deal-killer in my mind. His antics more recently have just piled on. I'm done with Elon.
The sooner he steps away from Tesla, the better. Tesla needs a Gwynne Shotwell. Elon needs to stay sober and take *all* of his meds *all* of the time.
I may still consider their Powerwall (on the back of the garage, lol), at some point in the future, but am actively watching for another option there as well. No rush in either case. Battery tech continues to advance in lots of places. Interesting times ahead. For now, the Powerwall product appears to be the clear leader, and if installed by a reputable vendor, you can have a decent experience. There are no other options for their cars - you deal with the insanity you signed up for.
I don't have patience for that kind of customer service, or lack thereof. Nissan has had its issues as well, certainly, but our dealer has been quite good. No complaints with them or the Leaf. Otherwise we'd be long gone by now.
cwerdna
Well-known member
I'm not shopping either and don't even know Ariya starting prices off the top of my head but agree that $52K is a tough sell esp. in light of no Federal tax credit eligibility. However, for me, even if a car is eligible, I am not eligible. My income is well above the income cap (listed at https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/credits-for-new-clean-vehicles-purchased-in-2023-or-after).frontrangeleaf said:
This is one thing I bet Nissan product planners were counting on, esp. by the Ariya EVent I went to before the "IRA" was signed. They figured they'd be eligible (due to not having hit the 200K unit phaseout yet) and Tesla wouldn't (since they did years ago). My memory's foggy now, but they may have even touted that at the EVent.
Update: Per https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/electric-cars/ariya.html, looks like the cheapest is the Engage FWD version with 63 kWh battery for $43,190 MSRP not including destination charge. Highest trim level MSRP is $60,190 before dest charge.
cwerdna
Well-known member
Nissan Tells US Dealers Ariya Will Be In Limited Supply This Year
Many Nissan US dealers are frustrated with the lack of availability of the 2023 Ariya.
https://insideevs.com/news/640865/nissan-tells-dealers-ariya-will-be-limited-supply-this-year/
Ugh!
Would be curious to see what up ends in Europe vs. the US this year. I guess for Europe we'd also need to include its cousin, the Renault Megane E-Tech (https://www.renault.co.uk/electric-vehicles/megane-electric.html).
Many Nissan US dealers are frustrated with the lack of availability of the 2023 Ariya.
https://insideevs.com/news/640865/nissan-tells-dealers-ariya-will-be-limited-supply-this-year/
Ugh!
Would be curious to see what up ends in Europe vs. the US this year. I guess for Europe we'd also need to include its cousin, the Renault Megane E-Tech (https://www.renault.co.uk/electric-vehicles/megane-electric.html).
I've owned 5 Nissan Leaf's, a 2015 SL, 2017 SV, 2019 SL+(totaled) , 2020 SL+ and 2023 SV+, so I have lots of EV Experience.
I test drove the Ariya in Orlando around July. I would describe my impression as "Underwhelmed" by it. Lots of room and Comfortable. Sales rep at that time told me they are going after Tesla Model Y and they would be $110 cheaper. We all know how that went
I had a deposit on the original Tesla Model Y when it was initially introduced but after test driving it I cancelled my reservation It was too small for me.
Fast forward to October last year. I test drove a Model Y and was impressed. I fit in it and it was a pleasure to drive so I ordered one.
Then while waiting for the delivery which was estimated to be 6 months or longer, I made a deal on trading my 2020 Leaf SL+ in November on a 2023 SV+, After tax credit and all costs it was a break even deal.
Then 3 weeks later Tesla told me that my Model Y was ready. I put a hold on my Tesla order waiting for 2023 Tax Credit to hit and possibly have the model Y eligible.
Then mid December Tesla offered a $3750 discount which would reduce the price about $4,000 after sales tax So I jumped on it . In addition I got 2 years and 10,000 miles of free Super charging. So I sold my 3 week old 2023 Leaf back to the dealer for $5k less than I paid for it but I still get to claim the $7.5k Tax credit so no loss.
Bottom line, The Tesla is a very nice driving car. The Super Charger network is awesome. But had I waited until mid January the price would have been $8,000 less and I would have been able to claim another $7,500 tax credit. I don't have buyers remorse. the car is a great car, just my timing wasn't the best.
If I had to make a decision today I would pass on the Ariya and buy another Model Y with MSRP below $55k so I could get the tax credit which would make the cost $47,500.
Nissan needs to price the Ariya low $40's to compete.
I test drove the Ariya in Orlando around July. I would describe my impression as "Underwhelmed" by it. Lots of room and Comfortable. Sales rep at that time told me they are going after Tesla Model Y and they would be $110 cheaper. We all know how that went
I had a deposit on the original Tesla Model Y when it was initially introduced but after test driving it I cancelled my reservation It was too small for me.
Fast forward to October last year. I test drove a Model Y and was impressed. I fit in it and it was a pleasure to drive so I ordered one.
Then while waiting for the delivery which was estimated to be 6 months or longer, I made a deal on trading my 2020 Leaf SL+ in November on a 2023 SV+, After tax credit and all costs it was a break even deal.
Then 3 weeks later Tesla told me that my Model Y was ready. I put a hold on my Tesla order waiting for 2023 Tax Credit to hit and possibly have the model Y eligible.
Then mid December Tesla offered a $3750 discount which would reduce the price about $4,000 after sales tax So I jumped on it . In addition I got 2 years and 10,000 miles of free Super charging. So I sold my 3 week old 2023 Leaf back to the dealer for $5k less than I paid for it but I still get to claim the $7.5k Tax credit so no loss.
Bottom line, The Tesla is a very nice driving car. The Super Charger network is awesome. But had I waited until mid January the price would have been $8,000 less and I would have been able to claim another $7,500 tax credit. I don't have buyers remorse. the car is a great car, just my timing wasn't the best.
If I had to make a decision today I would pass on the Ariya and buy another Model Y with MSRP below $55k so I could get the tax credit which would make the cost $47,500.
Nissan needs to price the Ariya low $40's to compete.
It depends on who they are trying to get to buy the Ariya. If it's young families, then yes. If they are trying for older Americans who want comfort and safety, with an overall experience similar to that of an ICE, then they may get them. Older people who aren't healthy and 'Sporty' would probably tend to choose the Ariya over the Y. I think that Nissan's biggest problem in that case isn't Tesla - it's the established manufacturers like Volvo, Ford, and VW who already have legions of brand- faithful people who for one reason or another will be looking for an EV, and are starting to find them in the showrooms of their favorite brands..
