LeftieBiker
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Re: What about electric mowers and outboards?

I just went through a 2 year slog in which I bought several clones, got them replaced or refunded as they failed, saw that the exact same batteries were going for anywhere from $12 to $100, and ended up buying a NOS made in Japan 5AH Makita battery, and via a sale, got 2 4AH Makita batteries and a Makita charger for slightly over $100. There is literally NO WAY to guarantee that you'll get a good clone, although the reviews help. Those aren't perfect either, though, as most people are fooled by the Full Battery indicator that stays for 50-60% of the charge.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: What about electric mowers and outboards?

Speaking of battery electric yard tools: a few years ago (probably approaching 10 years, now) I bought a Makita 36 volt chainsaw. This was when they were using a single, big, 36 volt battery rather than two 18 volt batteries. My housemate wasn't happy because she didn't think we needed a cordless chainsaw to go with the corded one we've had for many years, but I was concerned about storm damage in the form of fallen limbs. Anyway, not long after we bought it, we had a big storm, and our main sidewalk was filled with fallen limbs - BIG ones. The saw paid for itself that day. It then did so again a few months later. I've used it to clear storm damage, often with concurrent power outages, several times. It hadn't been used for a couple of years, so I got it out to make sure it was ready for a storm. I store it with an 80% charge - Makita was smart in having their chargers show when 80% is reached, even if you can't select that as a stopping point. Nearly any cordless power tool with a lithium battery would have a dead battery by now, but the saw battery had about a 60% charge. I removed and charged to battery to 80% again, cleaned it up, adjusted the chain tension (it uses a nifty, easy to use tool-less adjuster), filled the automatic oiler reservoir with vegetable-based chain oil, tested it, and now the saw is ready to pay for itself for about the fourth time.
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jjeff
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Re: What about electric mowers and outboards?

^^^ yes I've been eyeing up a 36v(2x18v) Makita chain saw. I just have a small electric one now but thought it might go well with my other Makita 18v-based tools. I do notice they have 2 different designs for their chainsaws, one where the batteries sit on the top of the chainsaw and ones where the batteries sit on the rear,, do you have a preference?
Yes I remember seeing those 36v single batteries a while back but I'm kind of glad the 18vx2 standard took off as thats what I have, although I suppose the next big wave will be the 40v tools, rendering my 18/36v tools as second rate.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: What about electric mowers and outboards?

The battery is in the rear on my saw, and that works well for me. I don't know if I'd prefer it elsewhere. Something else I like about it is that you can store the saw with the battery in place, ready to use. There is no extra phantom drain if you do that.

It took me a while to realize it, but "20 volt" and "18 volt" batteries are essentially the same. They just started advertising the fully charged voltage, instead of the "nominal" voltage, which is closer to depleted than to full. I don't know if you can interchange the chargers, but they are nonetheless essentially the same batteries.
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GRA
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Re: What about electric mowers and outboards?

I'd think the nominal 18V would be the max. voltage at rest, with 20V the max. while under charge. Thus, a pair of "6V" golf cart batteries in series was about 12.6V fully charged but at rest, but might be as high as 14.4V under charge if that was the charge controller's cut-off voltage.

The time it takes for the battery to drop to its resting voltage varies with the chemistry - for the deep-cycle L-A golf cart cells you wanted to wait about 6-12 hours IIRR, although you could get a reasonably close reading after an hour or so.

Smaller Li-ions designed more as power batteries would probably take considerably less time.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: What about electric mowers and outboards?

I'd think the nominal 18V would be the max. voltage at rest, with 20V the max. while under charge. Thus, a pair of "6V" golf cart batteries in series was about 12.6V fully charged but at rest, but might be as high as 14.4V under charge if that was the charge controller's cut-off voltage.
I haven't done any voltage testing on power tool batteries, but in the case of e-bike batteries, the rest voltage when fully charged is much higher than that. I also have no knowledge of golf cart batteries, but small 12 volt batteries have a resting but fully charged voltage of about 13 volts. My 48 volt e-bike batteries read in the low fifties when fully charged. My 24 volt Ping packs have charged but rest voltages near 27. So I'd be surprised if the power tool batteries read that low when charged but off the charger.
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GRA
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Re: What about electric mowers and outboards?

LeftieBiker wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:16 am
I'd think the nominal 18V would be the max. voltage at rest, with 20V the max. while under charge. Thus, a pair of "6V" golf cart batteries in series was about 12.6V fully charged but at rest, but might be as high as 14.4V under charge if that was the charge controller's cut-off voltage.
I haven't done any voltage testing on power tool batteries, but in the case of e-bike batteries, the rest voltage when fully charged is much higher than that. I also have no knowledge of golf cart batteries, but small 12 volt batteries have a resting but fully charged voltage of about 13 volts. My 48 volt e-bike batteries read in the low fifties when fully charged. My 24 volt Ping packs have charged but rest voltages near 27. So I'd be surprised if the power tool batteries read that low when charged but off the charger.

Sure, the chemistry and the intended usage will cause the two values to differ widely. I was speaking generally of the difference between full-charge while under charge vs. at rest. And I expect both the "18V" and "20V" numbers to be broad category rather than specific, just like those "6V" golf cart batteries were actually 6.3V fully charged at rest, and could be well over 14 when charging.
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The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.
LeftieBiker
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Re: What about electric mowers and outboards?

We have some Old School NiCad-powered Black & Decker 18 volt yard tools - a pole saw and a weed wacker. I used the weed wacker yesterday, and after recharging the battery I measured the voltage with a full charge. I was correct earlier: the analog multimeter in the garage registered exactly 20 volts. So the main improvement in power tool batteries in going from "18 volt" to "20 volt" appears to be just a matter of the manufacturers using the fully charged voltage instead of the near-depleted voltage. Of course, it's still possible that the "20 volt" tools will read higher when full as well. I'll check that the next time I recharge one.

On a related note: my Ride1Up ST700 E-bike reads 55.6 volts when the "48 volt" battery pack is full. Since my 48 volt Magnum Metro batteries read considerably less than that when charged, I suspect that I got the optional "52 volt" battery by accident, for free.
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