danrjones
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Re: Official Hyundai Ioniq 5 topic

I saw that! Yes the second episode came out over the weekend. I thought for sure the model X would win, but it didn't. Even the Ioniq 5 ran into some charging issues a few times, so I don't think the run was perfect for anyone. And it still beat the model X. The model 3 did worse than it should have, but still, CCS came in 1-2. Tesla 3,4. And Ford with their horrible charging curve came in way way last, like over an hour behind the model 3. Kyle toasted everyone though.

I agree with GRA, I still want more range. I'd like the 20-80% to give me a real 3 full hours at freeway speeds. 4 hours would be ideal.

Still, I'd gladly take a current Ioniq 5 in trade for my 2018 Leaf. And I still might, but now I have to wait until October to get our air district rebate and see if dealers stop gouging.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19
SageBrush
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Re: Official Hyundai Ioniq 5 topic

I watched just enough to realize that the test was a one-off, that at least for the Tesla Model 3 it cannot be taken as anything approaching typical since the driver reported 2 Superchargers in a row that were defective. Was it this driver who forgot something and had to waste 30 minutes to return to the starting point ? Whomever it was, that should have been deducted from the final traveling time.

It was obvious that the drivers spanned from experienced (Kyle) to newb (the Model X driver). That makes a big difference.

The EA usage was a clown show in the parts I watched with Kyle. The 'plug & charge' feature made their attempts to charge worse than usual

I look forward to reading summary data since the real-ish time video was a mess, I'm sure related to juggling 5 cars.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. Cal
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr @28k miles. 10/21: 53.4 Ahr @ 40k miles
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2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018. Sold 11/2021, awaiting Tesla Model Y
GRA
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Re: Official Hyundai Ioniq 5 topic

SageBrush wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 5:19 pm
GRA wrote: Sat May 07, 2022 3:48 pm C-rate is dependent on what individual cells can handle in terms of voltage and current, and is useful for comparing packs of similar voltage and chemistry. For a given chemistry, string more cells together in series and you don't have to put more current through them.
Put more cells in series, and notice what happens to the pack internal resistance.
I'm sorry, but you don't know what you are talking about.

Sure, resistance increases, but since the cell limit is determined by max. voltage and current it's far easier to boost the rate of charge (or discharge) power by putting more cells in series. Which is why more and more companies, including Tesla, are opting for pack voltages well over 400V so they can charge faster, despite your previous adamant declarations that it made no sense to do so.

BTW, re pack pre-conditioning to maximize charging speeds, while I'm all in favor of it for edge cases I wonder just how much of an advantage this would amount to in the real world. Most people take extended road trips in summer, when the pack would normally be warm, and even if it doesn't start that way doing a FC repeatedly every two hours as is currently required by almost all BEVs with a nominal range of 250-300 miles would probably heat the pack up to where you'd want it. I look forward to some extended range road tests of the Ioniq 5/EV6 that involve repeated FCs, in both cool and warm temps.

Of course, for those longer trips in cooler weather, pre-conditioning should help. I once drove from Oakland to Flagstaff (slept there), then on to Albuquerque and up to Taos Ski Village (slept), then to Boulder and Rocky Mtn. N.P. (slept), Old Snowmass and on to Arches N.P. (slept), Zion and on to near Lone Pine (slept), then back to Oakland via Tioga Pass in October. I remember we got snowed on crossing either Tennessee of maybe it was Fremont pass (don't remember which highway we took) in Colorado from I-70 on the way to Leadville. OTOH, given the steep climbs and descents and/or sustained high speeds on that trip, I'm sure any pack would have been plenty warm from providing power/accepting regen.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.
DougWantsALeaf
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Re: Official Hyundai Ioniq 5 topic

The broad point is that the 800/900 volt charging curves largely offset the efficiency delta between the cars for road trips. I do agree that the 200 mile freeway range on the ionic5 is a bit disappointing. From what I have seen the ev6 is like 230 or so, just modestly better. I think 300 needs to be the minimum in good weather like the video. So 200 is doable in winter.
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SageBrush
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Re: Official Hyundai Ioniq 5 topic

DougWantsALeaf wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 8:37 pm The broad point is that the 800/900 volt charging curves largely offset the efficiency delta between the cars for road trips.
Hogwash. You have bought into the marketing.
The 'improved' charge curve is because Hyundai is tolerant of a higher C rate at higher SoC. Time will tell how much that affects battery degradation.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. Cal
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr @28k miles. 10/21: 53.4 Ahr @ 40k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018. Sold 11/2021, awaiting Tesla Model Y
DougWantsALeaf
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Re: Official Hyundai Ioniq 5 topic

Agreed that it is way too soon to know what degradation will come with the high C rates at high SoC with both Taycan and and the Korean cars.

Same question for the Hummer. I have seen some check ins on Plugshare, so a few are getting into the wild.
2019 S Plus (93.3% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (89.9% SOH) Both Silver
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skylitdriven
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Re: Official Hyundai Ioniq 5 topic

DougWantsALeaf wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 7:51 pm Agreed that it is way too soon to know what degradation will come with the high C rates at high SoC with both Taycan and and the Korean cars.
At least the Taycan does give you the option of setting it to slower DCFC speeds (capping the maximum to only 200kW), which the option subtitle itself claims to "optimize" the life of the battery. AFAIK the I5/EV6 don't have this option.
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DougWantsALeaf
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Re: Official Hyundai Ioniq 5 topic

I noticed you have the coil overs. Did you find lowering the car helped efficiency at all? How much effort is it to raise and lower car?
2019 S Plus (93.3% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (89.9% SOH) Both Silver
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Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
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GRA
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Re: Official Hyundai Ioniq 5 topic

skylitdriven wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 10:03 pm
DougWantsALeaf wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 7:51 pm Agreed that it is way too soon to know what degradation will come with the high C rates at high SoC with both Taycan and and the Korean cars.
At least the Taycan does give you the option of setting it to slower DCFC speeds (capping the maximum to only 200kW), which the option subtitle itself claims to "optimize" the life of the battery. AFAIK the I5/EV6 don't have this option.

Of course, you always have the option of charging it using a 400-500V '150kW' or lower charger instead of a 800-1,000V '350kW' charger, if you're more worried about long term degradation than reducing dwell/total travel time. But until BEVs can provide adequate range between charges while routinely FCing in 15 minutes or less (5 minutes preferred), they won't be full replacements for liquid-fueled ICEs.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.
skylitdriven
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2022 7:59 pm
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Re: Official Hyundai Ioniq 5 topic

GRA wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 7:33 pm
skylitdriven wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 10:03 pm
DougWantsALeaf wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 7:51 pm Agreed that it is way too soon to know what degradation will come with the high C rates at high SoC with both Taycan and and the Korean cars.
At least the Taycan does give you the option of setting it to slower DCFC speeds (capping the maximum to only 200kW), which the option subtitle itself claims to "optimize" the life of the battery. AFAIK the I5/EV6 don't have this option.

Of course, you always have the option of charging it using a 400-500V '150kW' or lower charger instead of a 800-1,000V '350kW' charger, if you're more worried about long term degradation than reducing dwell/total travel time. But until BEVs can provide adequate range between charges while routinely FCing in 15 minutes or less (5 minutes preferred), they won't be full replacements for liquid-fueled ICEs.
I mean the Taycan has an option where the car itself can limit charging speed to 200kW, even if you use a 350kW charger.
2013 LEAF SL - Megan Coilovers - Cusco rear sway bar - Nitto NT555R
2014 C-Max Energi - Eibach ProKit springs - Conti ExtremeContact

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