Biofuels and Synfuels Topic

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GRA said:
Not snake oil. Think of it like a PHEV with a fossil-fueled ICE. It's not an ultimate solution, it's an interim step on the way to an ultimate solution.

Interim, perhaps.
Greenwash, more likely. I don't see any way this leads to an ultimate solution, unlike PHEVs which are BEVs over short ranges.


Biofuels directly compete with human food and what is left of natural ecosystems.

Synfuels are going to be very very expensive, due to the poor efficiency.
 
WetEV said:
Biofuels directly compete with human food and what is left of natural ecosystems.
+100

WetEV said:
Synfuels are going to be very very expensive, due to the poor efficiency.
They do at least set an upper bound on how high oil prices could go. And I'm not sure synfuels are any more expensive than wind/solar, when the full costs of balancing intermittency are included.
 
There are two categories of biofuel: those that require feedstocks that are also required for food for humans, and those that use, or can use, only waste. I agree that we don't want fuel sources competing with food - especially now that we seem to be entering the food crisis that has been predicted for decades. There is also little point in attempting large scale use of things like used cooking oil because of the relative paucity of the stuff. The only waste stream that I can see being utilized for fuel on a large scale is sewage. That, though, is a truly Vast untapped source of energy, and it's where all the efforts should now be focused, IMO. Sewage can not only be used to generate fuel (methane) directly, it can also be used as "food" for some of the biofuel processes that produce liquid fuels that are more easily utilized.
 
WetEV said:
GRA said:
Not snake oil. Think of it like a PHEV with a fossil-fueled ICE. It's not an ultimate solution, it's an interim step on the way to an ultimate solution.

Interim, perhaps.
Greenwash, more likely. I don't see any way this leads to an ultimate solution, unlike PHEVs which are BEVs over short ranges.


Biofuels directly compete with human food and what is left of natural ecosystems.

Synfuels are going to be very very expensive, due to the poor efficiency.


As Leftie noted, some bio-fuels compete with human food, some don't. I happen to believe that barring some GMO super-algae it's unlikely that bio-fuels will ever be able to replace a significant % of fossil-fuels used for transportation without impacting the food supply, so they will most likely be used in only those areas where there is no other non-fossil fuel option. Long-range aviation seems most likely to me, but we'll have to see how other alternatives develop. I was very surprised to see the claim in this recent article (which I'd posted a link to in that topic) of H2 being able to be used for medium-size jetliners with 5k+ mile range.
ATI FlyZero project finds green liquid hydrogen most viable zero-carbon emission fuel for aircraft
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2022/03/20220328-flyzero.html

I'd assumed that H2 would likely be most useful for regional turboprop airliners rather than longer-range jets, and am skeptical of the above claim, but we'll have to wait and see.

My local sanitary district powers their sewage treatment plant by a combination of bio-methane and PV, with any excess electricity going to PG&E; their garbage trucks also run on bio-methane. They offer tours every few months, and I took one a few years back. Some details on the bio-methane production process:
Thickened activated sludge from the gravity belt thickener, sludge from the primary clarifiers, and solids from the grease receiving facility all combine in the anaerobic digesters where microorganisms decompose the solids for 15 to 25 days in the absence of oxygen. The digested biosolids become biologically stabilized and reduced in volume.

The stabilized biosolids are mechanically dewatered by a belt filter press. The process removes a significant amount of water and greatly reduces the volume.

The dewatered solids are taken to the solar drying ponds, where they are further dried and then hauled away for disposal or beneficial reuse.

A byproduct of the anaerobic digestion process is methane gas, which is similar to commercial natural gas with about 2/3 the heating value. (The sewage district's process) generates 100 million cubic feet of methane gas per year. The methane is used by the onsite cogeneration system to produce heat and electricity for operating the treatment plant.

As for syn-fuels, we're at such an early stage there that making any sweeping statements about future development and use seems pointless to me.
 
The other important advantage of using sewage - aside from it not reducing the food supply* - is that much if not most of the infrastructure is already there. If someone who somehow didn't know about sewage treatment plants, but who was a good engineer, were to design a system for turning sewage into fuel, it would likely incorporate something very like the current sewage infrastructure as the front end.


* The residual waste, if sterilized and filtered, could actually help to grow more food.
 
Both GCC:
Trade associations: renewable natural gas accounted for 64% of on-road NGV fuel use in 2021

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2022/05/20220504-rng.html


. . . Captured above ground from organic material in agricultural, wastewater, landfill, or food waste, RNG can produce carbon-negative results when fueling on-road vehicles such as short- and long-haul trucks, transit buses, and refuse and recycling collection vehicles.

California Air Resources Board data confirms that the annual average carbon intensity (CI) value of California’s bio-CNG vehicle fuel portfolio in its Low Carbon Fuel Standard (LCFS) program was carbon negative and below zero at -44.41 gCO2e/MJ for calendar year 2021.

RNG use as a transportation fuel grew 13% over 2020 volumes, up 234% from 2017 levels. NGVAmerica and RNG Coalition report that in 2021 a total of 610 million gallons (GGE) of natural gas were used as motor fuel. Of that, 390 million gallons (GGE) were from renewable source (64%).

RNG use as a motor fuel in 2021 displaced 3.8 million metric tons of carbon dioxide equivalent (CO2e). Put into perspective, RNG motor fuel use last year:

Lowered greenhouse gas emissions equivalent to removing the GHG from more than 9.4 billion miles driven by the average passenger car;

Eliminated CO2 emissions equivalent to removing CO2 emissions from more than 427 million gallons of gasoline consumed;

Sequestered carbon, equal to growing close to 63 million tree seedlings for ten years, or 4.5 million acres of US forests for one year.




Contra Costa County Supervisors greenlight Phillips 66 Bay Area renewable fuels plant; 800M gallons per year RD, RG and SAF

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2022/05/20220504-rodeo.html


The Contra Costa County Board of Supervisors unanimously approved the land-use permit necessary to reconfigure the San Francisco Refinery in Rodeo to produce renewable fuels. (Earlier post.) Under a permitting review process overseen by County leaders and under authority of the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA), the plant can now proceed with its conversion away from crude oil-based fuel production toward used cooking oils, fats, greases and vegetable oils, pending a final investment decision by Phillips 66 and other regulatory approvals.

The proposed facility conversion, known as the Rodeo Renewed project, stands to have an initial production capacity of 800 million gallons per year (50,000 barrels per day) of renewable diesel (RD), renewable gasoline (RG), and sustainable aviation fuel (SAF). The fully permitted throughput is 67,000 barrels per day.

Production of these fuels is projected to slash lifecycle carbon emissions by an estimated 65%—the equivalent of taking 1.4 million cars off California roads each year. Rodeo Renewed also stands to cut criteria pollutant emissions at the site by 50% and water use by 160 million gallons per year. . . .

Once reconfigured, the Rodeo Refinery will no longer transport or process crude oil. Renewable fuels production at Rodeo is expected to begin in early 2024. . . .
 
WetEV said:
GRA said:
WetEV said:
Not a bad idea, but there isn't very much of it, and never will be much more of it.


Sure, but that doesn't mean it should be wasted.

Ah yes, is good for greenwashing.


So, you're saying we shouldn't bother regardless of whether or not we can do so at minimal cost or better yet a profit, and just let it go to waste? Or more accurately, just let the methane escape into the atmosphere? But you said it was a good idea - which is it?
 
GRA said:
WetEV said:
GRA said:
Sure, but that doesn't mean it should be wasted.

Ah yes, is good for greenwashing.


So, you're saying we shouldn't bother regardless of whether or not we can do so at minimal cost or better yet a profit, and just let it go to waste? Or more accurately, just let the methane escape into the atmosphere? But you said it was a good idea - which is it?

It is a good idea, worth doing. But the main value is the greenwash. Focus the news on a little green, and hide all filth behind it.
 
WetEV said:
GRA said:
WetEV said:
Ah yes, is good for greenwashing.


So, you're saying we shouldn't bother regardless of whether or not we can do so at minimal cost or better yet a profit, and just let it go to waste? Or more accurately, just let the methane escape into the atmosphere? But you said it was a good idea - which is it?

It is a good idea, worth doing. But the main value is the greenwash. Focus the news on a little green, and hide all filth behind it.


That assumes that CARB will say, okay, you get the PR bonus and we'll just let you do whatever you want for everything else.
 
Both GCC:
Phillips 66 makes final investment decision for $850M conversion of refinery to renewable fuels facility; commercial operation in 1Q 2024

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2022/05/20220512-rodeorenewed.html


Phillips 66 made a final investment decision Wednesday to move forward with Rodeo Renewed, the project to convert its San Francisco Refinery in Rodeo, California, into one of the world’s largest renewable fuels facilities. The project, which recently received approval from Contra Costa County (earlier post), is expected to cost approximately $850 million and begin commercial operations in the first quarter of 2024.

Upon completion of Rodeo Renewed, the converted facility will no longer process crude oil and instead use waste oils, fats, greases and vegetable oils to produce an initial 800 million gallons per year (over 50,000 barrels per day) of renewable transportation fuels, including renewable diesel, renewable gasoline and sustainable aviation fuel.

Production of these fuels is projected to reduce lifecycle carbon emissions by approximately 65%—the equivalent of taking 1.4 million cars off California roads each year. Rodeo Renewed is also expected to cut criteria pollutant emissions at the site by 55% and water use by 160 million gallons per year.

The scope of the project includes the construction of pre-treatment units and the repurposing of existing hydrocracking units to enable production of renewable fuels. The converted facility will leverage its flexible logistics infrastructure to secure renewable feedstocks from local, domestic and international sources and supply renewable fuels to California and other markets. . . .




Parkland planning to build British Columbia’s largest renewable diesel complex; upgrading Burnaby Refinery

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2022/05/20220512-parkland.html


Parkland, an independent supplier and marketer of fuel and petroleum products and a leading convenience store operator, plans to increase renewable fuel production at its Burnaby Refinery in British Columbia. The company said it will expanding existing co-processing volumes to approximately 5,500 barrels per day, and build a stand-alone renewable diesel complex within the Burnaby Refinery capable of producing approximately 6,500 barrels per day of renewable diesel.

The Burnaby Refinery co-processed approximately 44 million liters of Canadian-sourced canola and tallow bio-feedstocks in 2020, with a planned increase of up to 100 million liters in 2021. However, operations paused in late 2021 with the shutdown of the Trans Mountain Pipeline for 21 days following severe rain and flooding. The refinery co-processed 86 million liters of bio-feedstocks as a result (still, a record for the refinery).

The Burnaby Refinery was the first facility in Canada to use existing infrastructure and equipment to co-process bio-feedstocks such as canola oil, and oil derived from animal fats (tallow) alongside crude oil to produce low carbon fuels.

Renewable fuels produced through these plans will have one-eighth of the carbon intensity of conventional fuels. They will reduce related greenhouse gas emissions by approximately 2 megatonnes per year.

In addition, Parkland is designing the stand-alone renewable diesel complex to ensure it does not increase emissions from the Burnaby Refinery. The announcement follows collaboration with the Government of British Columbia and supports the Government’s ambition to achieve net-zero emissions by 2050.

Parkland currently estimate that these projects will require an investment of approximately $600 million, with the majority of capital investment expected to be deployed in 2024 and 2025. Parkland has received BC Government support for more than 40% of the project costs in the form of BC Low-Carbon Fuel Standard Compliance Credits.

Following stakeholder consultation, Parkland aims to make a final investment decision in the second half of 2023, with production expected to commence in 2026.

The company said it is currently assessing the feasibility and availability of financial support to produce Sustainable Aviation Fuel (SAF) as part of these plans, in support of decarbonizing Canada’s aviation sector.
 
GRA said:
The Burnaby Refinery co-processed approximately 44 million liters of Canadian-sourced canola

https://www.edf.org/blog/2022/05/05/climate-change-and-looming-cooking-oil-crisis-heres-what-we-can-do

skyrocketing prices and shortages of vegetable oils used in everyday cooking.

Feed people, jet fuel for private jets... Decisions, decisions.
 
WetEV said:
GRA said:
The Burnaby Refinery co-processed approximately 44 million liters of Canadian-sourced canola

https://www.edf.org/blog/2022/05/05/climate-change-and-looming-cooking-oil-crisis-heres-what-we-can-do

skyrocketing prices and shortages of vegetable oils used in everyday cooking.

Feed people, jet fuel for private jets... Decisions, decisions.


Yup, and based on historical evidence we can easily guess which way the decision will go.
 
Tap into the full potential of blue foods — fish and other foods from the ocean. This includes increasing sustainable seafood aquaculture (also known as fish farming) and improving management of fisheries that capture wild fish. Together, these upgrades will improve reliable access to healthy food for the 3 billion people worldwide who already rely on protein from the ocean and increase access to protein and nutrients for others.

What a truly terrible idea. Aren't the ocean ecosystems collapsing fast enough for the EDF..? Someone, somewhere, must have their heads screwed on straight enough to instead advocate for replacing non-subsistence fishing (including those wonderful fish farms) with protein and healthy fats from those same algae and common sea plants, leaving the declining fish populations to suffer the much smaller depredations of subsistence fishing. Or, maybe not...
 
LeftieBiker said:
Tap into the full potential of blue foods — fish and other foods from the ocean. This includes increasing sustainable seafood aquaculture (also known as fish farming) and improving management of fisheries that capture wild fish. Together, these upgrades will improve reliable access to healthy food for the 3 billion people worldwide who already rely on protein from the ocean and increase access to protein and nutrients for others.

What a truly terrible idea. Aren't the ocean ecosystems collapsing fast enough for the EDF..? Someone, somewhere, must have their heads screwed on straight enough to instead advocate for replacing non-subsistence fishing (including those wonderful fish farms) with protein and healthy fats from those same algae and common sea plants, leaving the declining fish populations to suffer the much smaller depredations of subsistence fishing. Or, maybe not...


Of course, assumes that people will be willing to eat that protein and healthy fats, and that we can produce enough of that to feed the population - We're on track to reach somewhere between 9.5 and 10.5 billion humans around 2050. To me it's kind of like the argument about the green revolution. Yes, it led to intensive, industrial agriculture. It also allowed us to feed an extra 3 billion people. BTW, I highly recommend reading "The Wizard and the Prophet" for biographies of the two people who exemplify the two views, Norman Borlaug and William Vogt: https://www.amazon.com/Wizard-Prophet-Remarkable-Scientists-Tomorrows/dp/0307961699
 
Did you really just question our ability to harvest and grow enough sea plants to feed the world, as opposed to "harvesting" enough of the dwindling fish populations...? I remember my father letting it slip that he thought that all those dinosaurs just ate each other for food. Apparently you, the EDF, and gods know who all else think that the fish outnumber the kelp... The one place that a "food pyramid" still makes sense is when showing the relative numbers and masses of plants and animals in any given large scale environment. Hint: the fish are the top, along with the monkeys...
 
LeftieBiker said:
Did you really just question our ability to harvest and grow enough sea plants to feed the world, as opposed to "harvesting" enough of the dwindling fish populations...? I remember my father letting it slip that he thought that all those dinosaurs just ate each other for food. Apparently you, the EDF, and gods know who all else think that the fish outnumber the kelp... The one place that a "food pyramid" still makes sense is when showing the relative numbers and masses of plants and animals in any given large scale environment. Hint: the fish are the top, along with the monkeys...


I questioned the willingness of people who don't normally eat them to change their diet, and mentioned one suggestion of seeding the ocean to provide more food (for fish in areas which have been overfished), while also capturing more CO2. See discussion here, in the chapter discussing various means of removing carbon from the atmosphere: https://www.withouthotair.com/c31/page_247.shtml

Having done a few hundred dives in Monterey Bay I'm quite familiar with the amount of kelp that used to be along our coast, although as with kelp forests worldwide it too has been suffering from warmer water: https://theclimatecenter.org/oceans-warm-worlds-kelp-forests-begin-disappear/


More detail on the California-Oregon die-off: https://www.kqed.org/science/194975...nked-to-ocean-heat-wave-voracious-sea-urchins

In addition to the loss of kelp, fish species that used to come no further north than southern California are now appearing in increasing numbers up here. I stopped diving around 2013 due to trying to protect what little hearing I have left, so missed the sea star die-off and resulting urchin population explosion. If I get cochlear implants I'll resume diving, and will be able to compare for myself.
 
GCC:
VERBIO launches first cellulosic RNG plant in the USA

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2022/05/20220516-verbio.html


VERBIO recently officially launched the first cellulosic RNG plant in the US. The VERBIO Nevada (Iowa) Biorefinery began producing renewable natural gas (RNG) on an industrial scale in December 2021. The facility is on track to achieve full-scale production of 7 million ethanol gallons equivalent (EGE) of RNG annually by mid-summer 2022.

In early 2023, the site will begin operating as a biorefinery, producing 19 million EGE of RNG and 60 million gallons of corn-based ethanol, annually. The integration of RNG and ethanol production, unique to VERBIO, incorporates advanced operational technology to build on the company’s successful experiences in Europe.

Collaboration between VERBIO and Alliant Energy led to the opening of the facility, which Alliant Energy serves with both natural gas and electric service. Renewable natural gas from the VERBIO Nevada Biorefinery is injected into an Alliant Energy pipeline before being distributed across the country.

Alliant Energy delivers the energy from the production at the facility to its natural gas customers in Iowa. Further, the company helped to develop standards and regulations for RNG as well as constructed interconnection options for the site, allowing VERBIO to comply with requirements established for the sale of RNG in other states.

VERBIO announced this is a “good start“ as the RNG production from this first plant will equal 3.3% of total US production last year, but there are still opportunities for growth. While the Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS) has been a great success, the portion from the Advanced Biofuels category related to Cellulosic Biofuels, including RNG, has greatly underperformed.

By 2022, the RFS envisioned 16 billion gallons of advanced biofuels. However, production to date has not exceeded 0.6 billion gallons, less than 4%. VERBIO sees its mission as working with all relevant parties to close this gap as quickly as possible.

Today, there are more than 200 ethanol plants operating in the US that could benefit from the efficiencies offered by VERBIO’s operating technology. The company expects to be operating 5-10 biorefineries within the next five years, producing 15-30% or more of the total RNG produced in 2021.

The plant in Nevada (Iowa) is our first plant in the USA. Until summer 2022, we will achieve full-scale production. Then we will process up to 100,000 tons of corn stover into renewable natural gas (RNG) every year and make it available for the market as a climate-friendly, renewable biofuel. By 2023, we will expand the VERBIO biorefinery based on the model of the German plants to an integrated RNG and bioethanol production. Our advanced and approved technology sets new standards in the US biofuels market. Nevada is just the beginning. We want to install another five to ten biorefineries in North America over the next five years.

—VERBIO CEO Claus Sauter. . . .


Obviously, I'm not a big fan of using corn for ethanol rather than food.
 
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