Posts: 7299
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:10 am ... e-engines/

"... Hyundai has, in the past, stated that they view battery electric vehicles as a stopgap “until fuel cell vehicles take hold,” but that was in 2016.
... In September of this year, Hyundai revealed a hydrogen strategy aiming for significant penetration of both commercial and passenger markets by 2040. ... But since then, an internal audit showed that Hyundai has fallen short of virtually every target they had for fuel cell vehicles. ... cost is falling slower than expected, ... and hydrogen fuel prices are higher than expected.

Hyundai was about a year into a projected four-year development period for the Genesis hydrogen car. But these problems with their third-generation fuel cell have resulted in an indefinite pause on the project.
And in other related news, Hyundai is moving its 12,000 person ICE R&D workforce to EV development.

It doesn't sound like they checked with GRA first.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. Cal
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr @28k miles. 10/21: 53.4 Ahr @ 40k miles
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018. Sold 11/2021, awaiting Tesla Model Y
Posts: 4813
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

SageBrush wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:29 am It doesn't sound like they checked with he-who-must-not-be-named first.
Fixed that for you.
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red (Sold)
2019 eTron Blue
Posts: 957
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

I'm surprised that GRA hasn't been on lately.

But just to continue closing the door on this thread: ... uses-best/

Oh look, another city realized that hydrogen's too expensive even for large vehicles like busses. Color me surprised.

Edit: Excerpt from the article:
Montpellier, a city in the south of France, had 50 hydrogen fuel cell buses on order for over two years.

However, the city updated its plan to decarbonize its public transport last week and noted that it canceled the order after reviewing the financials.

Michaël Delafosse, president of the municipality, said that they now expect hydrogen buses to be six times more expensive than electric buses because of the cost of operation (via La Tribune and translated from French):

“Hydrogen technology is promising. But we were helped on the investment but not on the operation. However, it would be six times more expensive than with electric buses. So, for the moment, we are giving up on hydrogen buses, we will see in 2030 if hydrogen is cheaper.”
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
:: Model 3 LR (Turo) :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Model Y LR AWD (wife's) :: acquired 30 Dec '20
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2021 11:51 am
Delivery Date: 03 Apr 2017

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Fuel Cell Vehicle tax credit died at the end of last year without much fanfare. I can't imagine there's going to be much of a political will to revive it a 2nd time.
Posts: 13717
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Been busy and then my back's been bothering me so haven't been getting around to libraries that much to go online (normally bike, and don't want to drive), and thus haven't been keeping various topics up to date. Feeling better today, so here's some for this one, all GCC:

ICCT study finds LH2-powered combustion aircraft can play an important role in meeting aviations 2050 climate goals ... ctlh2.html

Fraunhofer analysis finds battery-electric trucks have energy cost advantage over hydrogen trucks ... 8-isi.html

Phillips 66 and H2 Energy Europe to from JV to develop up to 250 hydrogen retail refueling stations by 2026 in Germany, Austria and Denmark ... 8-p66.html

BNEF: electrolyzer sales more than doubled in 2021, set to grow 4-5x this year ... -bnef.html

Fukuoka City, Toyota and CJPT to cooperate in realizing a hydrogen society; talks on introduction of fuel cell vehicles ... oyota.html

Shell starts up 20 MW hydrogen electrolyzer in China ... shell.html

Yara and Linde Engineering to build a 24 MW green hydrogen plant in Norway ... -yara.html
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.
Posts: 13717
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Been a while since I had time to surf and post, so this is a longish bunch of links. All GCC:
Consortium developing flat hydrogen storage solution for fuel cell vehicles: FlatHyStor ... ystor.html

. . . The project called FlatHyStor—“Functional design and testing of an innovative hydrogen tank system”—with a total project budget of 6 million Euros has been granted funding by the German BMWi (Federal Ministry for Economic Affairs and Energy).

The aim of the project is to develop an advanced hydrogen storage system solution for the flat space of light-duty car underbodies that are usually intended for the integration of the battery modules in Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs).

The consortium is led by BMW AG, which will coordinate the different activities and provide the technical specifications for the storage system integration and application. Hexagon Purus will develop the high-pressure hydrogen cylinders as well as the corresponding vehicle integration structure. Robert Bosch GmbH will develop the advanced tank valve and high-pressure regulator technology and TesTneT Engineering GmbH will deliver the validation of the storage components according to the latest codes and standard evolutions.

The first prototypes of the 700 bar high-pressure storage systems are due to be delivered by the end of 2022.
Flat storage will really help with space utilization and designing cars that can be BEVs or FCEVs. Such storage has been the driving force behind nanotube etc. tank development.

Rolls-Royce, Porterbrook to investigate potential for synthetic & net zero fuels in fuel cells and engines for rail decarbonization ... 15-rr.html

Toyota commissions Yamaha to develop hydrogen-fueled 5.0L V8; follow-on from Nov 2021 announcement ... amaha.html

DOE issues two RFIs to move ahead with IIJA $9.5B clean hydrogen initiatives ... oerfi.html

. . . Feedback received from these RFIs will also support DOE’s Hydrogen Shot efforts to cut to cost of clean hydrogen to $1 per 1 kilogram in one decade.
SQL errors so can't quote more extensively.

Electrolyzer company Verdagy closes $25M funding round led by TDK Ventures ... rdagy.html

. . . Syndicate members represent leaders in a wide range of industries focused on the use of green hydrogen and renewable energy for deep decarbonization, and include (in alphabetical order) BHP Ventures, Doral Energy Tech Ventures, Khosla Ventures, Orbia Ventures, Shell Ventures, and Temasek.

Spun out of Chemetry in early 2021 with seed investment from Khosla Ventures, Verdagy is leveraging years of electrochemical experience to develop technology that will meet the cost and performance targets necessary for broad adoption of green hydrogen across multiple industries.

Verdagy’s novel approach to large-scale water electrolysis is to incorporate the advantages of alkaline electrolysis (AWE) and proton exchange membrane electrolysis (PEM) while designing out their inherent limitations.

Verdagy created a new membrane-based approach to electrolysis leveraging very large active area cells, with the ability to operate at industry-leading high current densities and a wide dynamic operating range.

This approach enables low capital and operating costs and is expected to meet or exceed the US Department of Energy’s targets for water electrolysis.

Verdagy operates laboratory and pilot plant facilities in Moss Landing, California to further develop and rapidly scale the technology platform.

Airbus and CFM collaborating on hydrogen combustion demonstration program ... irbus.html

Airbus has signed a partnership agreement with CFM International, a 50/50 joint company between GE and Safran Aircraft Engines, to collaborate on a hydrogen demonstration program that will take flight around the middle of this decade.

The program’s objective is to ground- and flight-test a direct combustion engine fueled by hydrogen, in preparation for entry-into-service of a zero-emission aircraft by 2035. The demonstration will use a A380 flying testbed equipped with liquid hydrogen tanks prepared at Airbus facilities in France and Germany. Airbus will also define the hydrogen propulsion system requirements, oversee flight testing, and provide the A380 platform to test the hydrogen combustion engine in cruise phase.

The ZEROe Demonstrator flying testbed is the A380 MSN1—the first A380 to roll off Airbus’ production line. . . .

CFM International (CFM) will modify the combustor, fuel system, and control system of a GE Passport turbofan to run on hydrogen. The engine, which is assembled in the US, was selected for this program because of its physical size, advanced turbo machinery, and fuel flow capability.

It will be mounted along the rear fuselage of the flying testbed to allow engine emissions, including contrails, to be monitored separately from those of the engines powering the aircraft. CFM will execute an extensive ground test program ahead of the A380 flight test. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.
Posts: 13717
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Gold Hydrogen Program coalition launches program for subsurface biomanufacturing of hydrogen ... oldh2.html

SQL errors so can't quote more.

Pratt & Whitney awarded $3.8M by ARPA-E to develop novel hydrogen-fueled propulsion for aviation: HySIITE ... siite.html

SQL errors ditto.

Ballard & ABB receive approval in principle for high-power fuel cell concept to power ships; 3 MW ... rdabb.html

Ballard Power Systems and ABB have received an approval in principle (AiP) from leading classification society DNV for a jointly developed fuel cell concept capable of generating 3 megawatts, or 4,000 HP, of electrical power. DNV is an international accredited registrar and classification society headquartered in Hovik, Norway.

The AiP represents an important milestone in developing new technology, as independent assessment of the concept confirms feasibility of the design and no significant obstacles exist to prevent the concept from being realized. With the AiP in place, the jointly developed solution can be initiated with confidence that it is eligible to receive final approval for application onboard a wide range of vessels.

The high-power fuel cell unit is a flexible solution that will support the energy needs of multi-megawatt scale vessels with diverse use cases. For example, a cruise vessel operating in coastal areas could either run entirely on zero-emission fuel cell power or switch to it when operating in environmentally sensitive areas or emission control zones, while a ferry with a regular schedule and frequent bunkering opportunities could operate solely on fuel cell power.

For ocean-going vessels, fuel cell power could support auxiliary needs. The concept of the solution also envisions the integration with an energy storage system.

The successful development of this system concept builds on a three-year collaboration between ABB and Ballard Power Systems.

As part of its strategy to develop alternative emission-free technologies, ABB is already well advanced in collaborative development of fuel cell systems for ships. Zero-emission hydrogen fuel cells are already powering smaller vessels over short distances and the technology is on the verge of being ready for installation on larger ships.

Shipping contributes close to three percent to global greenhouse gas emissions (GHG) every year and pressure to transition the industry to more sustainable power sources has resulted in fixed reduction targets from the International Maritime Organization (IMO), a United Nations agency responsible for regulating shipping. IMO aims to cut for GHGs from ships by at least 50 percent by 2050 from 2008 levels.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.
Posts: 13717
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Both GCC:
Ballard and MAHLE working on new fuel cell system concept for long-haul trucks ... llard.html

Ballard Power Systems and MAHLE Group, a Tier 1 automotive supplier, are progressing the development of a new fuel cell system concept for long-haul trucks, with MAHLE taking delivery of a 120kW module at the company’s hydrogen test center in Stuttgart, Germany.

The new concept system is a part of the ongoing development of Ballard’s future product platform—which will feature power outputs from 180kW to 360kW—specifically to address the requirements of heavy-duty and long-haul trucks on global markets.

The joint project is a multi-year development program in which Ballard and MAHLE will continuously refine Ballard’s compact, energy-dense fuel cell stack and an integrated engine to meet the quality and performance expectations of the truck industry.

The module incorporates Ballard’s FCgen-HPS Fuel Cell stack, which addresses limited engine space, and maximizes freight and cargo capacity. Based on an earlier high power density design, the technology draws on Ballard’s on-road experience of 100 million km in service and proven fuel cell durability, exceeding 30,000 in vehicle operation as demonstrated in the London bus fleet. . . .

The new concept engine for heavy-duty vehicles will feature:

High Power for Heavy Payloads: the 120kW module is a building block for systems that can deliver up to 240kW power to serve the needs of heavy Class 8 and long-haul freight trucks and coaches that require more power and longer range than transit buses or short-range delivery vehicles.

Easier Maintenance for Lower Total Cost of Ownership (TCO): the module design features reduced weight, fewer parts and a more compact design. A key new feature, the “Open Engine Concept Design”, provides better access to parts and the subsystem, for easier maintenance and ultimately, a lower total life cycle cost.

Robust, Reliable Design: For long-haul trucks delivering critical goods, reliability and robustness are essential; the Concept Engine’s reduced parts count and simplified integration design are key factors in dependable long-term performance.

Durability: The Concept Engine is based on field-proven technologies and designs and vast experience in heavy-duty transport.

Fuel Efficiency for Economical Operation: Fuel costs are a major component of a Class 8 truck’s TCO. Fuel efficiency is also key for a manageable heat rejection system.

Freeze Start for Cold Weather: commercial trucks have to power up and deliver the goods, even in midwinter in the worst mountain roads. . . .

Chevron, Iwatani to build 30 hydrogen fueling stations in California ... evron.html

Chevron USA, a subsidiary of Chevron Corporation, and Iwatani Corporation of America (ICA), a wholly owned subsidiary company of Iwatani Corporation will co-develop and construct 30 hydrogen fueling sites in California by 2026.

As part of the agreement, Chevron plans to fund construction of the sites, which are expected to be located at Chevron-branded retail locations across the state. The stations will initially fuel light-duty vehicles while retaining the flexibility to service heavy-duty vehicles over the long term.

Iwatani will operate and maintain the hydrogen fueling sites and provide hydrogen supply and transportation logistics services. Chevron plans to supply a portion of the fueling sites with excess hydrogen production capacity at its Richmond Refinery and future hydrogen production from pilot projects in Northern California.

Iwatani is Japan’s only fully integrated supplier of hydrogen and presently supplies its extensive base of light and heavy-duty hydrogen refueling stations and industrial customers via five liquid and ten gaseous hydrogen production plants throughout the country. . . .

Be interesting to see how they plan to meet California's renewable H2 standard. Will they produce green H2 from the pilot projects mentioned?
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.
Posts: 13717
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

All GCC:
Hyundai Motor and Shell expand collaboration on clean mobility and carbon reduction; EV charging and hydrogen ... undai.html

. . . Areas of focus for the two companies will include: . . . .

Providing integrated hydrogen solutions, where Hyundai Motor could provide fuel cell trucks and Shell offers hydrogen infrastructure for targeted fleet customers.

Continuing Hyundai’s participation in Shell’s project to expand California’s hydrogen infrastructure to meet increasing consumer demand for fueling options for vehicles like the NEXO SUV. . . .

Been awhile since I posted any H2/FC lab links , so here's a couple. As always, lab results rarely lead to commercialization, and even when they do it's years away:
Korean researchers improve fuel cell catalyst performance by using semiconductor manufacturing technology ... -kist.html

A research team in Korea has synthesized metal nanoparticles that can significantly improve the performance of hydrogen fuel cell catalysts by using the semiconductor manufacturing technology. The Korea Institute of Science and Technology (KIST) announced that the research team led by Dr. Sung Jong Yoo of the Hydrogen Fuel Cell Research Center succeeded in synthesizing nanoparticles by a physical method rather than the existing chemical reactions by using sputtering technology—a thin metal film deposition technology used in semiconductor manufacturing.

The KIST research team synthesized a platinum-cobalt-vanadium alloy nanoparticle catalyst using this technology and applied it for the oxygen reduction reaction in hydrogen fuel cell electrodes. The resulting catalyst activity was 7- and 3-times higher than those of platinum and platinum-cobalt alloy catalysts that are commercially used as catalysts for hydrogen fuel cells, respectively.

Furthermore, the researchers investigated the effect of the newly added vanadium on other metals in the nanoparticles. They found that vanadium improved the catalyst performance by optimizing the platinum–oxygen bonding energy through computer simulation.

A paper on the work is published in the journal Nano Today. . . .

New efficient metal-free catalyst for releasing hydrogen from LOHCs ... -lohc.html
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.
Posts: 12916
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

I had a rare sighting of a Nexo earlier today. It had some decal along the rocker panel or above it with the text Hydrogen Powered EV or something like that. I think it was in all caps. Don't know if this is standard issue or something Hyundai is tending to include.

I had to run an errand during the middle of the day so I passed by the local H2 station. Spotted 1 car fueling and another in line. I've been not passing by that area much any more as my Niro EV is leased and I'm trying to keep the miles down. I have a slightly shorter route that I take to go home which doesn't pass by the H2 station.

'22 Niro EV
'19 Bolt Premier (bought back by GM)
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (former)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Return to “Business / Economy and Politics”