SalisburySam
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“Go for broke” is indeed the correct phrasing. Very nice vehicle, very nice pricing. At least Elon can afford one should he choose so.BeyondBeLeaf said:
Are there 2022 leafs for sale in the US?
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webeleafowners
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DougWantsALeaf said:
No idea. Not sure if one would be able to get the EV credit if they did. It’s usually done by the dealer.
EV’s of every type are in short supply here. Except Mach E’s. Lots of them on lots here. Weird
BeyondBeLeaf
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SalisburySam said:
That's the price of entry. I'm trying to see how life is with the Leaf before I put all my eggs in the EV basket. Up until recently I was working from home which made things easier. Living in the Dallas/Fort Worth area where everything is spread out, I hate the idea of having to charge daily, but some job sites may make that a reality.
SalisburySam
Well-known member
The LEAF is a great gateway drug to EV ownership, and it was for me back in 2012; it convinced me there was something real about owning and using an EV. The pathetic range and huge degradation of that range of course killed any hope of using it as an only vehicle along with the non-existent charging network at the time. Half a decade later that changed with the 300+-mile range of the Tesla Model 3, the Supercharger network, and the excellent range longevity so that today my Model 3 is almost the only vehicle. I’ve retained my 2012 LEAF SL because (1) I like to drive it, and (2) it is superb for around-town errands as long as I don’t get beyond 15 miles of returning home. Today’s LEAFs have a more suitable range for daily drivers and the Ariya, for example, is supposed to have a new system to manage battery temperatures to mitigate degradation in addition to leveraging the improvements in batteries since 2012.BeyondBeLeaf said:
I’ve enjoyed a no-gas-station life since mid-2018 with the exceptions of filling my 1-gallon gas can for legacy lawn equipment and even that is slowly being replaced with battery-powered equipment. My pressure washer is the only ICE tool remaining.
Enjoy your LEAF life!
BeyondBeLeaf
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SalisburySam said:
The battery degradation is the part that worries me long term. In the short term, it's how long it takes to charge the battery. I'm also a little disappointed with the cost per mile. I think I've logged about 900 miles thus far and the charging station I've been using has already charged me about $120 since I started charging. My full-sized Titan would give me about 450 miles in range for about $80, so I'm not seeing the kind of savings that I had hoped I would.
BeyondBeLeaf said:
I think the ROI for EVs will be highest if you can charge at home, especially if your utility provides lower rates for super off peak hours (ie midnight to 9am etc). I almost exclusively charge at home and my total estimated cost of charging for 3900 miles of driving is about $80 so far. I had 3 DCFC charges so far all on EvGO which provides a $250 credit to all new LEAF owners. Did you receive yours? That might help a little too.
Likely typical in Texas is buying energy at a fixed rate of about 11 cents/kWh +/- 2 cents, the cost of energy for the 900 miles would be around $20-25 - requiring charging at home. Charge stations will be a completely different cost for sure.
Triggerhappy007
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What have your charging habits been? You said in the other post that, "My complex charges $1 per hour for the first 4 hours and $2 for hours after 4." If you can charge 4 hours at a time, it's $0.17/kWh. Driving 900 miles should only cost you about $50. Maybe you can set your car's charging schedule to stop 3:50 from now?BeyondBeLeaf said:
How do you get down to 2 cents/KWH? The last set of panels I installed (9KW) came out to $9600 after rebates even with me doing all the labor. My amortized cost over 25 years with 15,000 KWH annual production comes out to 2.56 cents/KWH. The first set I had installed 10 years ago (also 9KW) cost double that even after all the rebates. Still, even at 5 cents/KWH it's 1/8 of what SDG&E currently charges. My amortized cost is about $1200 annually. That's less than a 1/10 of what SDG&E would charge me for the amount of power I use. The panels have more than paid for themselves over the years so my power is essentially free at this point,SageBrush said:
DC charging is very expensive but rarely necessary and charging at home is so cheap that I don't even think about the cost. If I didn't have solar it would cost me about $120/mo. That's still cheaper than buying gas and a lot more convenient as well.
johnlocke said:
My array is also a DIY. I ended up paying 80.2¢ a watt after 26% federal and 10% state tax credits, not including amortization. PVWatts estimates 1.7 kWh/year production per STC watt for my installation, so in my case a watt is about 50 kWh lifetime generation
Figuring financing costs is a tricky, YMMV business. I paid for the PV out of pocket with assets I hold as ~ inflation protected cash. So in my specific case, my cost of money is zero and my REAL kWh cost is closer to 1.5¢ a kWh. I wrote 2¢ a kWh for those people that finance. Where state incentives are not available but the climate is similar to mine and financing is used, 2.2¢ a kWh sounds about right, not too far from what you paid.
rogersleaf
Well-known member
Your costing observation is not unique. DCFC has never worked out for me from a cost perspective (unless free). In my case, it's rare that I even attempt driving my LEAF beyond it's single-charge range. On the rare occasions I have, both the reliability and costs of DCFC have been a huge disappointment.BeyondBeLeaf said:
Example... This past December I used my LEAF for simple 120 mile trip one-way, and then 120 mile return trip the same day. That required 2 DCFC sessions. Left home pre-heated @ 100% SOC from home L2 charging, 1 DCFC on the outbound (arrived on fumes), 2nd on the homebound at same station, and arrived home @ 15% SOC. I used EA for the DCFC for the basic reason it was my only choice, but fortunately was charged by the KWh (not by connection time as that would have been another costing disaster). Up front, the costing didn't look too bad at roughly $10-12 for each session. When my January credit card statement arrived, the account was auto-dinged 4 times @ $10/each to load & reload as needed to fulfill EA's account requirements. Then factor in the ~65KWh estimated from the 2 home L2's the LEAF took to prep & recover at another $8-9 overall combined. So in retrospect, it would have been cheaper to park the LEAF and use my Ridgeline at $35 in fuel, 5-minute top-off time, and actually included the road taxes in the cost.
Just wait until all those KW-hogging EV pickup trucks hit the market with batteries 3-4 times the capacity of a LEAF and lucky to deliver double the range (on a good day, downhill, with a strong tail wind). And those mostly new to having an EV owners then discover the daily power consumption & battery capacity is beyond what their common residential electric supply can support on L2 charging over reasonable time so they go looking for a 150KW DCFC to get through their day. That's going to be a major reality check.
BeyondBeLeaf
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OldManCan said:
I remember reading something about getting a few hundred towards a certain brand of charging station, but I didn't pursue it. My complex has SemaConnect as their charging stations which isn't very reliable and is where I've done most of my charging. I tried a Nissan dealership to try their "fast charging" station but it didn't seem to charge very fast. The SemaConnect station is supposed to charge $1 per hour for the first 4 hours and then $3 for every additional hour. I'd love to plug in for just 4 hours but I like to let the battery run down as far as possible before I recharge as I figure that might help with battery life. The other thing I notice is that once I get past about 90%, it takes forever for the last few percentage points to charge. Oh well, I'll keep making variation changes on the charging.
The extra state tax credits make a substantial difference. I live in an area that gets nearly as much sun as Death Valley but I do have some shading issues from tall trees in the winter. My annual production is 29000 KWH from 18 KW of panels. It's a lot of power but I'm 90% solar at this point. the wife's car is ICE and the backup heat, stove, and backup generator are propane powered. Next time around I'll convert to electric backup heat. Just added 84KWH of battery backup (courtesy of SDG&E) so the generator is redundant for the most part. Need to get the wife to convert to electric but she likes her Subaru Outback. I won't give up the gas stove though.SageBrush said:
BeyondBeLeaf
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Triggerhappy007 said:
I like to let it go down as low as possible and allow for a complete charge. Only once have I disconnected the charging before it got to 100% and that was when it was sitting at 98% and stated that it had another hour to charge. I might have to stop trying to let it charge to 100% as I think that's what's costing me more to charge.
DougWantsALeaf
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I have seen a couple reports of Leaf supplies increasing in some areas. Chip shortage/Car bubble ending?
Triggerhappy007
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Yeah, that's costing you money. For Level 2, it ramps down around 90-95% I think.BeyondBeLeaf said:
Triggerhappy007
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No, still chip shortages with other companies. They will stop taking orders for the Mach-E on Feb 11th. I think 8 of Ford's plants are on hold for a week or more.DougWantsALeaf said:
No more shipments of Leafs to the DFW area since December. My BIL bought an SV Plus for $36k OTD last month.
