The 62kWh Battery Topic

LeftieBiker said:

Turn the windshield wipers on will change the charge voltage to 14.1 as long as the wipers are on.

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Turning the windshield wipers on will raise the system voltage to 14.1 - 14.6 volts, for about one minute.

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I agree on the voltage range...but my car stays at that voltage as long as the wipers are on....observed on my plug in USB/Voltage meter....many many times.

I wasn't clear about that: if you blip the windshield wipers once, the voltage will stay at 14.X volts for about a minute after that - and for about a minute after shutting them off, regardless.

LeftieBiker said:

I wasn't clear about that: if you blip the windshield wipers once, the voltage will stay at 14.X volts for about a minute after that - and for about a minute after shutting them off, regardless.

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yes, I agree with that statement...but while in the intermittent mode, Low or High...the voltage stays in the ~14.1-14.6 range

Yes. If I actually need the wipers, I use intermittent mode with the longest delay. If I don't need them, I blip them once, once or twice on a short trip.

Do you think there is a way to emulate this "trick" to improve the battery SoH? Floor it away from the charging station? Is that what they mean by a discharge even at the end of charging?

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/li-ion-batteries-in-electric-vehicles-will-last-a-lot-longer-thanks-to-a-neat-trick-178697.html?fbclid=IwAR1mughFi2erDjMXAQ2fvqCb4Xa-rDM9rHZkivmvPI_zyutVzTltkldYsYM

That appears to be what they mean. It is not clear, however, that they have actually tried to do this - to prove the hypothesis. Their description of the process by which lithium batteries degrade sounds a bit...simplistic. This may just be journalistic 'explain-ese' or it may be something less benign.

My S+ has not lost a hundredth now in over a month in the small daily adjustments. I guess it's a benefit of the cold. (SV+ has lost 3 hundredths in the same time period). Let's hope we are at the flat part of the curve on the batteries as we approach 3 years. The SV+ was charged above 90% a couple times in that period.

DougWantsALeaf said:

Do you think there is a way to emulate this "trick" to improve the battery SoH? Floor it away from the charging station? Is that what they mean by a discharge even at the end of charging?

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/li-ion-batteries-in-electric-vehicles-will-last-a-lot-longer-thanks-to-a-neat-trick-178697.html?fbclid=IwAR1mughFi2erDjMXAQ2fvqCb4Xa-rDM9rHZkivmvPI_zyutVzTltkldYsYM

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Seems a bit antithetical - especially after a "quick charge" when the battery is already heated up - then apply a very high discharge current?? Maybe more applicable to "home" charge controllers - with the side benefit of requiring a V2H capability that turns on (e.g.) the water heater :mrgreen: - OK, dream on!

DougWantsALeaf said:

Do you think there is a way to emulate this "trick" to improve the battery SoH? Floor it away from the charging station? Is that what they mean by a discharge even at the end of charging?

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/li-ion-batteries-in-electric-vehicles-will-last-a-lot-longer-thanks-to-a-neat-trick-178697.html?fbclid=IwAR1mughFi2erDjMXAQ2fvqCb4Xa-rDM9rHZkivmvPI_zyutVzTltkldYsYM

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That is the way I treated my 2013, charge to 100%, melting battery and full power out of the charging station down the Interstate doing +90 MPH. I always thought that was a bad way to treat the battery. :lol:
Would if I was actually doing some benefit to the battery? My LeafSpy readings before I sold it probably say otherwise.

It makes me wonder if the DC charging in road trips is less bad because you immediately head out on the road again.

Just finally got around to running my Leaf+ to 0%. Looks like 0% and low battery warning occur at 100 Gids power left. Can anyone confirm that? Also I have one cell pair that's 70mv low at full charge. Taking the battery down to 15-20% and recharging it to 100% hasn't seemed to help. Driving it past the 0% point was a little unnerving even after checking it with LeafSpy. I ended up at 85 Gids in my driveway. I used to take the 2016 down to 15-20 Gids fairly regularly. Does the 2022 have a VLB warning as well?

There are actually 3 different warnings, but they are not obvious. Low battery warning happens at 6% SOC and a little over 100 Gids for me (usually 104 to 108) and causes the GOM to flash. Very low battery warning causes GOM to go to --- at 2% SOC and around 78 Gids. What I call extremely low battery happens when the SOC drops below 1% and indicates ---% at around 62 Gids. Shutdown happens around 8 to 12 Gids when I run the battery completely down using climate control in the driveway. I have always had some cell unbalance at very low SOC. 50 mV to 100 mV is the range I see at extremely low battery level.

GerryAZ

How is the SoH doing on your Plus now?

GerryAZ said:

There are actually 3 different warnings, but they are not obvious. Low battery warning happens at 6% SOC and a little over 100 Gids for me (usually 104 to 108) and causes the GOM to flash. Very low battery warning causes GOM to go to --- at 2% SOC and around 78 Gids. What I call extremely low battery happens when the SOC drops below 1% and indicates ---% at around 62 Gids. Shutdown happens around 8 to 12 Gids when I run the battery completely down using climate control in the driveway. I have always had some cell unbalance at very low SOC. 50 mV to 100 mV is the range I see at extremely low battery level.

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That's odd. I got to 0% charge before the GOM blanked out. It was showing 16 mi left just before it blanked out, Also, the battery percentage showed all the way to 0% and then started blinking "---". No voice prompt but large "low battery warning. Look for charging station?" prompt on infotainment screen. I've lost about 2% capacity so far but I understand that's fairly normal for a new battery. 100 Gids would be about 13% charge left, Leaves a lot of room below 0%. I wonder if there's a software change between the 19 and the 22 models?

It's also very possible that the warnings are now based strictly on pack voltage rather than estimated miles remaining, with well-balanced packs showing the warnings later than those with weaker or unbalanced cells. That would make sense, as voltage sag under load could suddenly Turtle packs with low cells.

LeftieBiker said:

It's also very possible that the warnings are now based strictly on pack voltage rather than estimated miles remaining, with well-balanced packs showing the warnings later than those with weaker or unbalanced cells. That would make sense, as voltage sag under load could suddenly Turtle packs with low cells.

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I should be able to test this when the weather gets warmer. I have readings for the "low battery, very low battery, etc." from last year on my 2020 for remaining capacity. When spring arrives, I'm going to test if 1 year and +33K miles makes a difference on these readings.

I agree that Nissan has "hidden" some capacity at the bottom of the pack to account for cell differences that typical EV drivers don't understand exist or what to do with that information. Sure, with LeafSpy, I could easily drive another +20 miles on 0% SOC, but the typical EV driver can't see that kind of information. They just know the pedal to go forward and that they don't want to get hit by someone while trying to merge into fast traffic. My wife is a perfect example of that "driver mind" as she knows it's possible to really drag out 0% SOC for maximum distance, just is not comfortable with it because she is accustomed to the "ICE" world where no gas equals no power.

While my LeafSpy screenshots look awesome from my 2020 (cell balance wise), when it gets to 0% SOC, the cell balance really starts to spread out and I can see from a "user" perspective why Nissan decided to just to go with 0% reading rather than try to make a system that gradually reduces power to even out power usage in the end. Basically, that's what we are doing to maximum range at 0% SOC, we try to drive as gently as possible to keep the cells as balanced as possible as the remaining power is slowly drawn away.

johnlocke said:

GerryAZ said:

There are actually 3 different warnings, but they are not obvious. Low battery warning happens at 6% SOC and a little over 100 Gids for me (usually 104 to 108) and causes the GOM to flash. Very low battery warning causes GOM to go to --- at 2% SOC and around 78 Gids. What I call extremely low battery happens when the SOC drops below 1% and indicates ---% at around 62 Gids. Shutdown happens around 8 to 12 Gids when I run the battery completely down using climate control in the driveway. I have always had some cell unbalance at very low SOC. 50 mV to 100 mV is the range I see at extremely low battery level.

Click to expand...

That's odd. I got to 0% charge before the GOM blanked out. It was showing 16 mi left just before it blanked out, Also, the battery percentage showed all the way to 0% and then started blinking "---". No voice prompt but large "low battery warning. Look for charging station?" prompt on infotainment screen. I've lost about 2% capacity so far but I understand that's fairly normal for a new battery. 100 Gids would be about 13% charge left, Leaves a lot of room below 0%. I wonder if there's a software change between the 19 and the 22 models?

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The only actual warning is the first low battery warning which pops up on the display in front of the steering wheel. There are no warnings on the center (navigation/entertainment) screen. There are no actual warnings for VLBW and ELBW, just visual indication of the GOM going to --- miles and SOC going to ---%, respectively so perhaps there have been some software changes.

To answer Doug's question, Leaf Spy statistics at full charge as of this morning:
AHr=158.71
SOH=89.97%
Hx=89.87%
V=403.54 volts
I=1.26 amperes
Odo+42,805
QC=12
L1/L2=286
4.200 V
4.204 V
4.209 V
9 mV
69.4 F
73.2 F
73.0 F
Gids=678

Thanks Gerry. Sad to see that max gid number under 700. My SV+ is only a % behind yours, but can still reach 700 gids (barely).

I do miss the 775 gids I had when the car was new. The psychology if a slowly shrinking battery capacity, I guess is kind of like aging. You want it to stop, but know it won't.

I am not too worried about the "Gid" number since it was 730 after the first full charge and the highest I ever recorded was 737 (only twice). 678/730=92.9% of original or 678/737=92.0% of highest after almost 2-1/2 years and over 42,000 miles.

Fascinating. I am but surprised on howuch of a spread in gids between our cars when new. My S+ sat in the lot for 9 months before we bought it, so was lower at new, but still above 730.

My SV+ had its first ever non-change BMS quarter. Not even a .01 move. I am 3 months and 4 days since last change, so think this is where I sit for another quarter.