cdherman
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:22 am
Leaf Number: 22947
Location: Kansas City, Missouri

Intermittent turtle and "reduced power" events, culminated last night with complete stall, needed to tow to dealer...

I too have been getting intermittent episodes of reduced power output in cold weather under acceleration or high speed. My battery is at 66.5% Was down to 65.3%, but I needed to fast charge to get home the other day, and it bumped back to 67% Lots of variation showing in the cell charges. I am not too savy in understanding much of LeafSpy information.

I've been reading here, and I had been assuming that I was getting close to dropping the 4th bar and thereafter would be getting a new battery. So I ignored the semi-turtle events.

Then yesterday afternoon, 2 bat temp bars, 20 deg F, 68% battery charge, I am doing 65,mph on a slight upward incline. I feel it reduce power and slow some, did not pay much attention to dash initially.

THEN, car loses ALL power. Lights on dash all light up including a check engine light I've not seen before. The nice voice announces I should pull over (still coasting at this point" and set the Parking Brake. I later find that the car has defaulted to Neutral.

Was able to get off the interstate. I failed to take pictures of the various error messages (was getting out of traffic and making a lot of driving decisions). But on the side of the road, I shut down the Leaf and restarted. No changes. Still multiple error lights. Woud not shift into D. Climate control giving no heat (could not hear heat pump). Heated seat interesting still functional.

4.2 Miles from dealer where I originally purchased and AAA member, so 45 minutes later I handed the key fob to the dealer service guy and that was that. Their Leaf technician has weekend off. Will know more on Monday. I did not try to look at things with LeafSpy or my other OBDII diagnostic program. I was freezing, as I had no heat and only was wearing scrubs and light jacket......

I have not read where anyone else was having the cold weather turtle/reduction of power where the vehicle actually finally died. We will see. I will post more when I know more. Perhaps will get my new battery soon.....
2016 SV 30kwh >> 40kwh 3/42022, 2014 Blue Prius, 2011 Silver Prius, 2005 Subaru Forester X, 1965 F-100
8.1KW GridTie Solar
Sold 2012 SL 42k miles, 10 bars, 12/15/16 for $5999 (cannot believe I did that)
Kansas City MO
SageBrush
Posts: 7305
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Intermittent turtle and "reduced power" events, culminated last night with complete stall, needed to tow to dealer..

cdherman wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 10:53 am Perhaps will get my new battery soon.....
I think so, provided that the battery defect warranty is still in effect.

Too bad you did not grab the error codes via LeafSpy. If still possible, please do.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. Cal
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr @28k miles. 10/21: 53.4 Ahr @ 40k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018. Sold 11/2021, awaiting Tesla Model Y
dang10010
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:27 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Oct 2019

Re: Intermittent turtle and "reduced power" events, culminated last night with complete stall, needed to tow to dealer..

Wow, you described exactly what happened in my 2017 Leaf.
I live near St. Louis.
I too have 9 bars left and was waiting for it to drop to 8.
It started when it got really cold this past week down in the single digits.
The first day it said reduced power mode while I was driving for a few miles on the interstate, then went away a few miles later but I maintained 65 mph.
The next day I drove it, full throttle up a hill and then I watch the power bars slowly go down but I'm not lifting up on the pedal and the acceleration is fluttering.
Then it goes to from around 40% charge to 20% in one minute, I then exit off the interstate for my commute, I watch as the battery actually starts to increase charge as I drive slowly over 5 minutes back up to where it was.
Finally the next day it's about 12 F on the way home, up a hill I give it full throttle and turtle mode then pull over now and it puts it in neutral for me, I coast luckily to a neighborhood.
The screen tells me turn off power and do not drive to avoid permanent damage to the battery.
I set there for about 10 minutes, unplug the 12v to reset it then gingerly drive home very easily the rest of the way with no issue.
I decided to replace the 12v battery today (looked original) and clean up the fair amount of corrosion on the terminals.
When I unplugged the car was at 100% full charge, next day it was at 97%
Test drove and it happened again, monitored with Leaf spy but didn't see a huge variation, DTCs say Cell over Discharge Module6 and Module24 and some other weird messages, this time I was able to turn off for about 5 minutes and start again, the error codes are now there for Nissan to read I hope.
I just wish it would drop to the 8th bar and make this easy.
2017 Leaf SV 73xxx+ miles located near St. Louis MO
Dropped to 9 health bars late summer 2021.
LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 18839
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Intermittent turtle and "reduced power" events, culminated last night with complete stall, needed to tow to dealer..

That sounds like one or more bad or weak cells. The voltage sags too much in that/those cell(s), causing the BMS to intervene, then as the cell(s) recover, the voltage climbs and the BMS removes the power restriction. If so, that is covered right now under the battery defect warranty - but you need error codes to prove it.
Brilliant Silver 2021 Leaf SV40 W/ Pro Pilot & Protection
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 2 lithium E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.
cdherman
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:22 am
Leaf Number: 22947
Location: Kansas City, Missouri

Re: Intermittent turtle and "reduced power" events, culminated last night with complete stall, needed to tow to dealer..

As noted by dang10010, I too was tempted to unhook the 12v battery, but since its still under battery warranty and had a free tow from AAA, and I was not dressed or stalled in a location conducive to disconnecting the 12v, I passed.

I am hoping this will start the process of getting a new battery. I spoke with the dealer yesterday AM, and by the next morning, they were able to power up the car and drive it, with error codes still showing, inside. I am wondering if I have a battery in the pack that is really close to completely dead and it took hours for it to "wake back up" after the heavy discharge of going up a hill at 65 in the cold.
2016 SV 30kwh >> 40kwh 3/42022, 2014 Blue Prius, 2011 Silver Prius, 2005 Subaru Forester X, 1965 F-100
8.1KW GridTie Solar
Sold 2012 SL 42k miles, 10 bars, 12/15/16 for $5999 (cannot believe I did that)
Kansas City MO
cdherman
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:22 am
Leaf Number: 22947
Location: Kansas City, Missouri

Re: Intermittent turtle and "reduced power" events, culminated last night with complete stall, needed to tow to dealer..

Well, dealer called yesterday AM that the 12v battery "didn't have enough CCA" and thus needed replacement. I laughed, and the service guy did actually immediately reply that he did know that a Leaf doesn't crank, but their battery tester gives them good versus bad in CCA so that's got to be replaced first. Since the 12vbattery was installed 6/2016 at factory, I figured it was not worth arguing about and told them to replace. Besides, they charge a $129 diagnostic fee, and if you refuse their "repair" they make you pay the diagnostic fee. If you accept the repair, they waive the fee. So $170 for a new battery. I figured fighting it would cost me $129. So I figure I sort of got a new 12v battery for $41....... Feels better that way.....

The car had a ton of error codes on arrival to the dealer, which they did write down for me, but they felt these were due to low 12v battery. They *may* be right.

They then charged the traction batter over night and test drove today. They could not get any of the errors or turtle events that I was getting. Problem is, in the meantime, since Jan7, Kansas City is roughly 40 deg warmer! Traction batter showing 5 bars temp. So I am not sure if the 12v battery fixed the problem or not. I drove the Leaf hard this afternoon and could not replicate either.

I think they *may* be right. The errors occured under accelleration or incline or high speed. Usually combo of 2 or three of the above. I wonder if the Leaf shuts down the 12v inverter that charges the 12v system, when the traction battery is being heavily burdened? Then, if the 12v battery is reaching the end of its days, the 12v voltage would drop and eventually cause all manner of error codes. That's a possible scenario I think.

But this being Kansas City in January, I will have cold weather again in time. I'll see if I can replicate then and if not, then the dealer was probably correct.....
2016 SV 30kwh >> 40kwh 3/42022, 2014 Blue Prius, 2011 Silver Prius, 2005 Subaru Forester X, 1965 F-100
8.1KW GridTie Solar
Sold 2012 SL 42k miles, 10 bars, 12/15/16 for $5999 (cannot believe I did that)
Kansas City MO
LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 18839
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Intermittent turtle and "reduced power" events, culminated last night with complete stall, needed to tow to dealer..

It probably was the 12 volt battery - a weak one is well known for causing myriad error codes that aren't real. As for the turtling, I agree with others that it's the pack temp that matters, not the air temp, so that remains to be seen. I suggest that, to avoid similar recurrences for now, you do whatever you can to keep the pack temp above 0 temp bars on the gauge.
Brilliant Silver 2021 Leaf SV40 W/ Pro Pilot & Protection
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 2 lithium E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.
GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 3291
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Intermittent turtle and "reduced power" events, culminated last night with complete stall, needed to tow to dealer..

Traction battery internal resistance goes up as battery temperature goes down so I suspect you will see the power limitation under heavy load when the ambient temperature drops again for several days. I have never seen the DC-DC converter drop out until the main contactor opens so I strongly doubt that the weak 12V battery was the cause of your reduced power (turtle) events.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL Plus purchased 8/10/2019
nlspace
Posts: 658
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:21 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Jun 2017

Re: Intermittent turtle and "reduced power" events, culminated last night with complete stall, needed to tow to dealer..

cdherman wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 5:14 pm...
Since the 12vbattery was installed 6/2016 at factory
And that battery was built even earlier than that, so it could be 6 years old--that is quite a long lifetime in a laef, especially if no maintenance was pulled to check and add water.

With a scan of the pack cell voltages you could get a better feeling whether the problem has been solved or not. Or go make a few wide open throttle acceleration runs to see how well it does--that would trigger a turtle if the pack had a weak cell.

The EV-ECU monitors the voltage of the supply and would throw codes and turtles if your 12V supply were being pulled down by a bad starter battery (e,.g. internal shorting or collapsing cell voltage).

You did good getting a $41 battery... :lol:
dang10010
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:27 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Oct 2019

Re: Intermittent turtle and "reduced power" events, culminated last night with complete stall, needed to tow to dealer..

Ditto, my leaf has a clean bill of health from my Nissan dealer.
They showed me all the codes that all pointed to a bad 12v battery that I already replaced, they had to clear the codes, new Walmart battery tested fine.
I had got it to turtle again after the 12v replacement but it was much colder that day.
They drove it and couldn't get the turtle to pop on, I drove it hard too but it was too warm that day in the 50s neither could I.
I have 90 days or 3000 miles, if it happens again then they'll diagnose again for free.
We'll see what happens again when it gets in the single digits for a few days.
Luckily I have a short commute with the dealer almost right in the middle and a big hill right next to them.
They have a good working Chademo charger for free, I'll not feel the least bit bad using it on occasion after paying the diagnostic fee.
I can't blame the dealer for not being able to do anything, they need a code to show Nissan corporate.
2017 Leaf SV 73xxx+ miles located near St. Louis MO
Dropped to 9 health bars late summer 2021.

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