Fenix Power - Took money and but never delivered

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A number of people posted on FB that they got their charge-back money for the pre-paid fee, but not the $150 deposits. I can live with losing the deposit. One person reported that Fenix objected to the chargeback -- I have a paper trail a mile long that will support my claim. Banks and credit card companies generally favor the consumer in disputes, sometimes by law (in the case of forged checks, for example), sometimes by practice.
 
LarryKaplan said:
A number of people posted on FB that they got their charge-back money for the pre-paid fee, but not the $150 deposits. I can live with losing the deposit. One person reported that Fenix objected to the chargeback -- I have a paper trail a mile long that will support my claim. Banks and credit card companies generally favor the consumer in disputes, sometimes by law (in the case of forged checks, for example), sometimes by practice.

My reading is that credit card companies will often side with the consumer up to ~ $50 without putting up too much fuss, but larger sums are decided by the letter of the contract because the credit company is not willing to eat larger sums. If they cannot get the money from the vendor, they rely on the consumer credit card contract to not pay when possible. If doesn't do Fenix any good to pay some of the chargebacks. They will either pay all or none. I'm betting on none.

You will find that your consumer agreement window on chargebacks has passed.


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The people who paid Fenix ~ $2,000 may be in a slightly different boat. The credit car companies are obviously not going to pay if they do not have to, but if the group is large enough they might be able to interest some 2-bit class action lawyer. They might even get a small fraction of their money back, who knows.
 
Seems like https://fenix.systems is back up but super slow for me.

Of course, there's no new news and it still says "Installations starting in July!"
 
On this talk of credit card liability and time limits, It would appear that varies widely by state. WA credit card liability limit is $50 with 6 years to recover.

In GA, its 6 years as well. See Phoenix Recovery Group Inc. v Mehta 2008 for details.

In this case, I would take your state's laws as the goto option first.
 
Ha, is that July bit new? Or was it a previous years' July? The whole section is funny:

Buy your CPO battery today!
The wait is over, battery installs are on their way!
Certified-Pre-Owned 24 kWh available.
Installations starting in July!
 
RonSwanson said:
Ha, is that July bit new? Or was it a previous years' July? The whole section is funny:

Buy your CPO battery today!
The wait is over, battery installs are on their way!
Certified-Pre-Owned 24 kWh available.
Installations starting in July!

Was it not July 2019? or was it 2018?
 
It was originally for July 2020, for the CPO packs (while they continue their ground breaking work on the new Fenix Power Architecture :lol: )
 
jlv said:
It was originally for July 2020, for the CPO packs (while they continue their ground breaking work on the new Fenix Power Architecture :lol: )

Which is not to say that their promises about the CPO pack started in July 2020. They started much earlier, but they stopped pushing the date forwards as of last July

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Fenix was *never* capable or R&D, and never will be even if they survive which is very, very unlikely.
The CPO angle made a tincture of sense but as I have said since forever, the cost of logistics and playing around with 9 - 10 bar batteries killed the business case from day #1. I was hoping that their installer base could live on installations of higher capacity, used batteries but there are too few, and are therefore too expensive, to make a go of it at any meaningful scale.
 
Well I just joined the Fenix bandwagon. After two hour long charging sessions to drive 60 miles at 62 MPH on the freeway, I said goodbye to my 2011 leaf, my $150 deposit, and goodbye to Fenix Power's BS.

I didnt get a Tesla, I got a 2021 Kona EV limited for a great deal. 64 Kilowatts and it loved 80 MPH the whole way home on less than half charge. 260 range vs 35 mile range, RIP Nissan and Fenix Power.... :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
cwerdna said:
While digging around, I found this recent reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/leaf/comments/mr4rs4/fenix_power_are_the_done/. Guy claimed to have supplied his '11 Leaf as a test mule and claims to have recently gotten it back. He's dreaming if he thinks he can sell his 5 bar loser '11 for $5500. Maybe he can to a sucker...
The below are posts from possibly the same guy:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/FenixPowerCoForum/permalink/742154173100022/?comment_id=743112819670824&reply_comment_id=774086156573490
https://www.facebook.com/groups/FenixPowerCoForum/permalink/765292414119531/?comment_id=774082106573895
https://www.facebook.com/groups/FenixPowerCoForum/permalink/765292414119531/?comment_id=774083053240467

He essentially says he loaned Fenix his car for 2 years and got less than 0 benefit. He ended up dumping his car to Carmax.
 
It’s RIP for Fenix IMO. They have gone radio silent. I just got my Visa card refund on my pre-paid battery with Fenix -- $2500. A word about them: I do not think it was a scam or crooked or illegal. It was just a failure resulting from factors beyond their control, such as the pandemic, and from fundamental mistakes they made in their business model and customer relations – all of which made them look bad and which fueled the grievances of the trolls who always look for the worst in people. So I’m looking at options.

EVRides in Portland sounds like they have their act together and they get rave reviews, but the distance (I am in So CA) creates cost and logistics issues. They sell salvaged healthy batteries only, no refurbished ones. The 30 kWh at $7K-plus might be worth the extra 35 mile range, but barely, and the 40 kWh, at 10 grand, would just not make economic sense – for that much plus trading in my current car, I could go out and get a later model Leaf or a used Bolt or Kia/Hyndai.

AceHybrid Group in Orange County is a closer option for me, although they get mixed reviews. They refurbish salvaged batteries they have in stock which they install to replace your current battery (they do not refurbish your battery). Their prices range ballpark from $5500-plus for a 24 to $7500-plus for a 30, but they have nothing in stock and are back-ordered for at least 2 months – they wouldn’t even put me on a waiting list because it’s already too long.

So I guess I take the $2500 I put down and just got returned, and stash it away in savings for a while, and revisit replacing my traction battery at the end of the summer. Maybe by then there will be other options. Or maybe just get another car.
 
Don't worry the price of Li-Ion batteries is going down..... HA HA HA. I recall hearing that over 3 years ago when I bought my used LEAF (already 3 yrs old) I have been trying to buy a salvaged LEAF for years. They never make the salvage yards at least any where within 1000 miles of Tennessee. LKQ never has them. I suspect when a LEAF is salvaged there is a pipe line already established and the individual can't buy them.

My 24KWh 2015 Leaf lost a second bar and has at best 80 mile range. That is fine. I estimate I have another 5 years. It is a second car anyway. So it makes no sense spending money on it. However if I could find a battery pack and for fun and learning rebuild my pack with the best individual cells that might be fun extend the life of my car 5 or more years. I have the skill to do the job from what I have researched. Also I can part out the rest of the car an might breakeven... (THAT IS MY SPECULATION, assuming the battery from salvaged LEAF is not toast or already removed from the car). It would be better to buy a used Chevy Bolt or Hundi Kona.... and sell the running LEAF with the weak battery.

The battery services like the one mentioned in Portland are great but as was said, if you don't live in Washington, Oregon, Northern California it is not practical. As far as failed battery compony... I KNEW IT I KNEW IT.... Again BATTERY PRICES ARE GOING TO GO DOWN? Nope. For fun I went to my Nissan dealer and asked for battery replacement quote.... IT WAS TOP SECRET and had to call the MOTHER SHIP..... In the end with Parts, Labor and state/county sales TAX (9.75%) it was $9K... That was a year ago... When the car was still in warranty 2019 the price was $6K. This BTW was for a 24KwH battery.... not even an upgrade. What sad #$%^&*@

EDIT PS, scratch buying a Kona Electric ($40K used) or Chevy Bolt ($25K used). I like my LEAF, it does the job for around town. For road trips I take my VW TDI Diesel and 50 MPG....
 
gmcjetpilot said:
EDIT PS, scratch buying a Kona Electric ($40K used) or Chevy Bolt ($25K used). I like my LEAF, it does the job for around town. For road trips I take my VW TDI Diesel and 50 MPG....
$25K for a used Bolt is too high. IIRC, people had been getting new 2020 or 2021 Bolts for that much. https://electrek.co/best-electric-vehicle-prices/#Chevy has some pricing. 2022 Bolt EV and EUV have arrived at dealers so new 2020 and 2021 will likely get harder to find.

Used Bolts (e.g. https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searchresults.action/?mdId=36274172&mkId=20053&page=1&perPage=100&rd=99999&searchSource=PAGINATION&sort=price-lowest&stkTypId=28881&zc=00001) have actually gone up a few $K. IIRC, they used to start at around $12Kish but someone elsewhere said he'd seen them before in the $11Ks.
 
gmcjetpilot said:
Don't worry the price of Li-Ion batteries is going down...HA HA HA. I recall hearing that over 3 years ago when I bought my used LEAF (already 3 yrs old). I have been trying to buy a salvaged LEAF for years. They never make the salvage yards at least any where within 1000 miles of Tennessee. LKQ never has them. I suspect when a LEAF is salvaged there is a pipe line already established and the individual can't buy them.
What do you base your "salvaged Leaf" information on? There is one coming up for auction (soon) on a Copart lot (https://www.copart.com/) in TN. I agree that (fully assembled) battery pack costs have not dropped as much as originally predicted, but at least we have >24 kWh options available. I wrote a blog about my recent upgrade experience (https://www.electricauto.org/blog/keeping-your-nissan-leaf).
 
LarryKaplan said:
It’s RIP for Fenix IMO. They have gone radio silent. I just got my Visa card refund on my pre-paid battery with Fenix -- $2500. A word about them: I do not think it was a scam or crooked or illegal. It was just a failure resulting from factors beyond their control, such as the pandemic, and from fundamental mistakes they made in their business model and customer relations – all of which made them look bad and which fueled the grievances of the trolls who always look for the worst in people.
As I said almost a year ago, the pandemic will be a great excuse for them to blame away their failings.

They had already lost credibility here before the pandemic, having given lots of excuses on why they had nothing to show about their in-house developed modular battery back after years, all while collecting people's money. It was only then that they announced they were temporarily pivoting from their own battery pack to just shipping existing used packs sitting in someone else's warehouse to third party installers who would do the actual install work. And they couldn't even do that without more excuses and going silent over and over.

Maybe they were not a scam or crooked, but they definitely never showed anything that hinted they had the ability to deliver on their promises.
 
Stanton said:
gmcjetpilot said:
Don't worry the price of Li-Ion batteries is going down...HA HA HA. I recall hearing that over 3 years ago when I bought my used LEAF (already 3 yrs old). I have been trying to buy a salvaged LEAF for years. They never make the salvage yards at least any where within 1000 miles of Tennessee. LKQ never has them. I suspect when a LEAF is salvaged there is a pipe line already established and the individual can't buy them.
What do you base your "salvaged Leaf" information on? There is one coming up for auction (soon) on a Copart lot (https://www.copart.com/) in TN. I agree that (fully assembled) battery pack costs have not dropped as much as originally predicted, but at least we have >24 kWh options available. I wrote a blog about my recent upgrade experience (https://www.electricauto.org/blog/keeping-your-nissan-leaf).
@gmc is projecting his frustrations over finding cheap LEAF pack replacements to the Li-x battery industry at large. This is a Nissan and LEAF issue, not a Li-x issue.

Back when @gmc bought his LEAF I tried to warn him that his presumptions about future pack replacements were irrationally optimistic but he was sure he was smarter than the average bear and had gamed the system. Now he is projecting.
 
He's not the only one to make projections about future cheap/cheaper pack replacements. Has been going on for years w/Leafs and other EVs too, including in the past few weeks or months elsewhere.

Then, some people get sticker shock (e.g. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/service-says-22k-for-new-battery-on-2012-model-s.221438/ and https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/what-to-do-2013-model-s-60-battery-fail.176939/).

https://fenix.systems/ still says "Installations starting in July!"
 
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