GRA
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Re: General EV sales topic

Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:35 pm

Did it ever prevent you from getting gas, or did you just move to another pump or the station next door/down the street? Until there's that level of reliability & convenient redundancy to charging, people will still have anxiety, justifiably so.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
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Re: General EV sales topic

Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:52 pm

I would have sworn I just saw that goalpost right over there... ;)
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GRA
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Re: General EV sales topic

Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:28 pm

Then you were mistaken. I wrote "It won't until activating a charge is as reliable as 'activating' a gas pump. In 40+ years of doing the latter I've never had a single failure", IOW paid charging needs to be ultra-reliable and convenient, like getting gas/diesel. It has a long way to go.

I'm curious, though, what issues were causing your dispenser failures? Weather, or do you live in West Podunk and old Billy Joe Bob can't be bothered to do routine maintenance? I've seen the occasional dispenser marked 'out of order', but as there's always at least one more working one right next to it, big deal.
Last edited by GRA on Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
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Re: General EV sales topic

Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:31 pm

Mainly credit card readers.
Brilliant Silver 2021 Leaf SV40 W/ Pro Pilot & Protection
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 2 lithium E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

WetEV
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Re: General EV sales topic

Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:30 am

GRA wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:28 pm
It won't until activating a charge is as reliable as 'activating' a gas pump. In 40+ years of doing the latter I've never had a single failure.

By comparison, I was successful in activating a charger just 3 of 11 times, at a total of four different sites on my trip to the east side of the Sierra in a Bolt last October.
I've had one gas pump 'failure'. Humans running the place closed and left at 10PM. I arrived at 10:05PM.

Over 10+ years of EV driving, I've had my home station down for construction for a few days, power outages a few days. Charged at work.

Public: one L2 station with a funky start sequence, took 15 minutes to figure out, one L2 with a misplaced O-ring that prevented plugin until i removed it, one phone app conflict when trying a new network, one station failed to start and I moved to the next station, which worked. Plus one ICED and one DCQC wait too long so used L2. Hundreds of public charges.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
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2014 Leaf SL Red
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GRA
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Re: General EV sales topic

Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:27 pm

WetEV wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:30 am
GRA wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:28 pm
It won't until activating a charge is as reliable as 'activating' a gas pump. In 40+ years of doing the latter I've never had a single failure.

By comparison, I was successful in activating a charger just 3 of 11 times, at a total of four different sites on my trip to the east side of the Sierra in a Bolt last October.
I've had one gas pump 'failure'. Humans running the place closed and left at 10PM. I arrived at 10:05PM.

I wouldn't call that a pump failure, that's a driver planning failure. In major cities you can count on there being stations open at all hours. Out on the road, especially off-interstate you can't, so you need to plan accordingly.

Sometime in the late '70s I was on a Sierra Club backpacking trip to Tohakum Peak on the east side of Pyramid Lake, Nevada. Most of the drivers had gotten gas in Reno, because it's reasonably close and has low prices. One guy hadn't, and informed the rest of us that he was running low and needed to get gas at the nearest town to the trailhead, in Nixon. Those who got there first on Sunday on our way home discovered that the station was going to close at 5 p.m. (this was Sunday, and it's on an Indian reservation). We convinced the owner/sole employee to stay open past 5 for the laggard by spending a fair amount of money there until they arrived. If we had been unable to convince them, that'd be on the driver.

WetEV wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:30 am
Over 10+ years of EV driving, I've had my home station down for construction for a few days, power outages a few days. Charged at work.

Public: one L2 station with a funky start sequence, took 15 minutes to figure out, one L2 with a misplaced O-ring that prevented plugin until i removed it, one phone app conflict when trying a new network, one station failed to start and I moved to the next station, which worked. Plus one ICED and one DCQC wait too long so used L2. Hundreds of public charges.

That's far short of gas station reliability, although better than I did. How often did it seriously impact/alter your trip plans?
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
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Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: General EV sales topic

Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:37 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:31 pm
Mainly credit card readers.

Score another win for handing cash to a human. I get so impatient standing in line at a grocery store while someone tries to pay using multiple credit/debit cards and their phone. After they're spent several minutes futzing around, have hopefully succeeded in paying and my turn comes, I hand the clerk cash, often exact change 'cause I've done the total in my head as I went along (I'm thankful I learned basic math before calculators), and I'm done in 15-30 seconds. Never had a failure, although I suppose a total power failure would take the register offline.

Of course, I often use the self-checkout, and occasionally it rejects a bill because of a crease or a coin for some reason, but the success rate is still far higher than supposedly more 'convenient' options.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
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Re: General EV sales topic

Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:50 pm

How does having a card reader on the gas pumps inconvenience anyone? And why would I want to "hand cash to a human" in these times...?
Brilliant Silver 2021 Leaf SV40 W/ Pro Pilot & Protection
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 2 lithium E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

WetEV
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Re: General EV sales topic

Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:09 am

GRA wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:27 pm
WetEV wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:30 am
Over 10+ years of EV driving, I've had my home station down for construction for a few days, power outages a few days. Charged at work.

Public: one L2 station with a funky start sequence, took 15 minutes to figure out, one L2 with a misplaced O-ring that prevented plugin until i removed it, one phone app conflict when trying a new network, one station failed to start and I moved to the next station, which worked. Plus one ICED and one DCQC wait too long so used L2. Hundreds of public charges.

That's far short of gas station reliability, although better than I did. How often did it seriously impact/alter your trip plans?
The last one was the most costly. DCQC would be 20 minutes and $6, and we would have time for a washroom stop. The L2 was "free", and the wife had time for shopping. :o :lol: :roll: ;)
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

GRA
Posts: 12994
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: General EV sales topic

Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:10 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:50 pm
How does having a card reader on the gas pumps inconvenience anyone? And why would I want to "hand cash to a human" in these times...?

I have nothing against having a card reader on the dispensers, provided I'm not forced to wait to use the dispenser while the other driver tries to get the reader to acknowledge and accept their card(s), it's being dependent on a demonstrably less reliable card reader compared to paying cash to a human that's the problem. As for handing cash to people, that's what hand sanitizer or, if you're really paranoid, disposable surgical gloves are for.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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