Dumbest excuses people have given for NOT installing PV

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
SageBrush said:
golfcart said:
SageBrush said:
I know, you were only talking about the ant. WetEV and I are reminding you of the elephant.

I think the elephant has been well acknowledged by all parties but thanks for the reminder. I will stick to the approved list of talking points in the future... :roll:

If by 'approved' you mean pertinent and relevant to the context then YES. E.g., I could mention out of the blue that the progressive vote was fragmented but that would be useless spin. The pertinent information would be the ~ 90% majority.

Likewise, I could say that it is false to call the Repuke electorate AGW denialists. That is correct since ~ 15% of that group realize that climate change is anthropogenic. However, the tone, politicians and laws reflect the denialism of the supermajority 85% of that group so my original statement is just spin.

And round and round we go...
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
Meh, 8 billion people headed to 11 on this rock orbiting a star the only thing certain is that it can't and won't continue. Something's going to get us, who knows if the CO2 will be first.

I hope you are incorrect. We (and our descendants) might manage to avoid all potential future disasters, or at least survive them.


LTLFTcomposite said:
Meanwhile go ahead try telling people to turn off their air conditioners and let me know how that works out.

If that is what you are suggesting, I agree it probably will not work. Perhaps you might want to rethink the problem.
 
I have not read through all 17 pages of this thread, so maybe this has been discussed ....

The thing that's stopping us right now is that, as long as we have gear on the roof that can generate 5kw when the sun is shining, we'd like to be able use that power when the grid is down; this is not uncommon where we live. Unfortunately, the PV installers are not interested in doing this without using expensive lithium-ion battery systems like the PowerWall; this would more than double the cost of the system we're thinking of installing. We prefer a more modest solution that involves single-digit kilowatt-hours of AGM (or maybe lead-acid) storage; that's still enough to run the fridge & cable modem a day or two and run the well pump enough for drinking and a little washing. I don't know if the installers don't want to bother unless it's as expensive as PowerWall etc, or if the PowerWall deals with a lot of the complication for them.

But a lot of complication there is. I've been debating how to do it with some smart people at stackexchange (and I'm an EE) and the answer is not clear to us. A lot of the complication has to do with the stricter "rapid shutdown" requirement of the 2017 NEC.

So that's gonna stop us, at least until I can figure out how to do it. I just can't see having all that power generation on the roof and not being able to use it when the grid goes down.
 
RustyShackleford said:
I have not read through all 17 pages of this thread, so maybe this has been discussed ....

The thing that's stopping us right now is that, as long as we have gear on the roof that can generate 5kw when the sun is shining, we'd like to be able use that power when the grid is down; this is not uncommon where we live. Unfortunately, the PV installers are not interested in doing this without using expensive lithium-ion battery systems like the PowerWall; this would more than double the cost of the system we're thinking of installing. We prefer a more modest solution that involves single-digit kilowatt-hours of AGM (or maybe lead-acid) storage; that's still enough to run the fridge & cable modem a day or two and run the well pump enough for drinking and a little washing. I don't know if the installers don't want to bother unless it's as expensive as PowerWall etc, or if the PowerWall deals with a lot of the complication for them.

But a lot of complication there is. I've been debating how to do it with some smart people at stackexchange (and I'm an EE) and the answer is not clear to us. A lot of the complication has to do with the stricter "rapid shutdown" requirement of the 2017 NEC.

So that's gonna stop us, at least until I can figure out how to do it. I just can't see having all that power generation on the roof and not being able to use it when the grid goes down.

Check out the sunny island or StorEdge inverters. I think StorEdge only works with Powerwall and LG Chem batteries, but Sunny Island works with a variety of battery packs. It still likely won't be cheap, though...
 
The biden administration want to reduce solar install cost by 60%.
If you delete any associated taxes , permits fees, inspection costs, make the panels and inverter free you can just about get there.
 
Oilpan4 said:
The biden administration want to reduce solar install cost by 60%.
If you delete any associated taxes , permits fees, inspection costs, make the panels and inverter free you can just about get there.

What is the average install cost now?

The biggest cost is the installer isn't it?

In my area it was running 3 to $4 per DC watt installed, before tax credit. I did it myself and the cost ended up almost exactly at $1 per watt after tax credit, or about $1.5 per watt before the tax credit. I'm sure costs very wildly. Tesla solar appears dirt cheap.

But at $1 per watt installed with my expected output over twenty years, I'm looking at 4 cents per kWh. That's seems good to me.
 
So that's gonna stop us, at least until I can figure out how to do it. I just can't see having all that power generation on the roof and not being able to use it when the grid goes down.

Check out Outback power inverters, they are adaptable to any batteries so you coukd start with a couple of lead-acid deep cycle batteries and go to L-ion later. The Outback also complies with all necessary shutdown protocols and will sell back once your battery bank is charged. We have had a system like this for years - high-line power went out last night here and we only know it because we get a text from the power company, then we know not to be using heavy electric loads such as the coffee machine 'till it comes back on.
 
RustyShackleford said:
We prefer a more modest solution that involves single-digit kilowatt-hours of AGM (or maybe lead-acid) storage; that's still enough to run the fridge & cable modem a day or two and run the well pump enough for drinking and a little washing. I don't know if the installers don't want to bother unless it's as expensive as PowerWall etc, or if the PowerWall deals with a lot of the complication for them.

So that's gonna stop us, at least until I can figure out how to do it. I just can't see having all that power generation on the roof and not being able to use it when the grid goes down.

A useful solution for me that has dual functionality is the following:
- I use a a golf cart to get around at my rural property, so I have about 7.2 kWh useable storage by keeping a spare set of 4 - 150 ahr trojan deep cycles (nameplate) as it is difficult to quickly get replacement batteries to the property - and impossible if a hurricane hits and we go to the rural property during the expected long term power outage at home (we have done this).
- The spare set is set up to be parallel to the golt cart batteries.
- My solar systems consist of Sunny Boys with "secure power" outlets that work well with the OEM 48 VDC golf cart charger that can recharge the batteries during a sunny day when the grid is down.
- I have used APC UPSs that will provide up to 3000 watts of 120 VAC power from the 48 VDC system. OFten very cheap on ebay.
- The system can easily run a a few lights, couple of ceiling fans, TV, and a fridge for at least a 24 hour cycle ( requires full sun days!!)
- I do have a means to manually switch the PV panels to a Midnight charge controller if a long term outage is expected for better capture of a energy during cloudy days. However, this switch its probably a DIY project.
- This dual functionality of getting around the property (quietly) with backup energy storage works great for me.
- Note that I have a propane generator system to run my water pump as it is a relatively large load at 240 VAC, and only intermittant use to refill containers.
 
Holy old thread, Batman ... thanks for the ideas.

Since my post, I have installed a system, 4.32kW, with a SunnyBoy inverter (with the "secure power" thing). It's a ground mount system, so I don't need to worry about rapid-shutdown (the inverter of course does the anti-islanding UL1741 thing).

I've also rigged the Leaf to drive a 1000watt/120v inverter (per another thread here), which can be connected to a generator inlet (and main breaker interlock) I installed with the solar. I drive both phases of the panel from the same 120vac, which is a bit tricky, but I decided it was safe since I have no MWBCs). This can run fridge, modem/router, and a few lights, for a long time (several days, theoretically). There is one glitch: sometimes the fridge, even if it's the only thing, shuts off the inverter; this must be the auto-defrost, but it still doesn't make sense, since it's not supposed to draw more than 600watts or so. Possibly it makes the 12vdc input to the inverter sag enough to shut the thing down (when it starts up) and I should try a honking big capacitor on the inputs to the inverter ? I guess this is safe for the Leaf. And of course it can't possibly run the well pump; if a power outage seems in the offing, I fill the bathtub for toilet flushing, and draw a few gallons of drinking water. Showers aren't really an issue, since obviously I'm nowhere near being able to run my electric water heater.

Next step: test topping up the Leaf's battery by connecting its portable charging cord to the SunnyBoy's secure-power outlet ...
 
In 2019 I believe it was about $3 a watt for a fly by night install company to install panels on a string inverter.
Closer to $4 per watt for micro inverter, from a legacy company.
 
RustyShackleford said:
Holy old thread, Batman ... thanks for the ideas.

Since my post, I have installed a system, 4.32kW, with a SunnyBoy inverter (with the "secure power" thing). It's a ground mount system, so I don't need to worry about rapid-shutdown (the inverter of course does the anti-islanding UL1741 thing).

I've also rigged the Leaf to drive a 1000watt/120v inverter (per another thread here), which can be connected to a generator inlet (and main breaker interlock) I installed with the solar. I drive both phases of the panel from the same 120vac, which is a bit tricky, but I decided it was safe since I have no MWBCs). This can run fridge, modem/router, and a few lights, for a long time (several days, theoretically). There is one glitch: sometimes the fridge, even if it's the only thing, shuts off the inverter; this must be the auto-defrost, but it still doesn't make sense, since it's not supposed to draw more than 600watts or so. Possibly it makes the 12vdc input to the inverter sag enough to shut the thing down (when it starts up) and I should try a honking big capacitor on the inputs to the inverter ? I guess this is safe for the Leaf. And of course it can't possibly run the well pump; if a power outage seems in the offing, I fill the bathtub for toilet flushing, and draw a few gallons of drinking water. Showers aren't really an issue, since obviously I'm nowhere near being able to run my electric water heater.

Next step: test topping up the Leaf's battery by connecting its portable charging cord to the SunnyBoy's secure-power outlet ...

I want to do an array on a sunny boy sps inverter like that. Let me know how it works out. Solar DC straight to AC with no battery should be pretty intolerant to motor starting loads. But it may charge a leaf just fine.
 
Oilpan4 said:
RustyShackleford said:
Holy old thread, Batman ... thanks for the ideas.

Since my post, I have installed a system, 4.32kW, with a SunnyBoy inverter (with the "secure power" thing). It's a ground mount system, so I don't need to worry about rapid-shutdown (the inverter of course does the anti-islanding UL1741 thing).

I've also rigged the Leaf to drive a 1000watt/120v inverter (per another thread here), which can be connected to a generator inlet (and main breaker interlock) I installed with the solar. I drive both phases of the panel from the same 120vac, which is a bit tricky, but I decided it was safe since I have no MWBCs). This can run fridge, modem/router, and a few lights, for a long time (several days, theoretically). There is one glitch: sometimes the fridge, even if it's the only thing, shuts off the inverter; this must be the auto-defrost, but it still doesn't make sense, since it's not supposed to draw more than 600watts or so. Possibly it makes the 12vdc input to the inverter sag enough to shut the thing down (when it starts up) and I should try a honking big capacitor on the inputs to the inverter ? I guess this is safe for the Leaf. And of course it can't possibly run the well pump; if a power outage seems in the offing, I fill the bathtub for toilet flushing, and draw a few gallons of drinking water. Showers aren't really an issue, since obviously I'm nowhere near being able to run my electric water heater.

Next step: test topping up the Leaf's battery by connecting its portable charging cord to the SunnyBoy's secure-power outlet ...

I want to do an array on a sunny boy sps inverter like that. Let me know how it works out. Solar DC straight to AC with no battery should be pretty intolerant to motor starting loads. But it may charge a leaf just fine.
I finally tested the SPS today for the first time, and I tested it by trying to charge the Leaf with its portable charging cord - the one that can be connected to a 240vac outlet for Level2 charging, or to 120vac using a little adapter that fits over the 240vac plug - which of course I used the latter.

And it worked just fine. Until shade started impacting the panels. Which reduces the output much more than I'd been led to believe by some people at the solarpaneltalk forum who said I didn't need optimizers ...

This is the way I'll likely use the SPS too. In the rare event of a several day power outage (or one that takes me by surprise, so I can't fully charge the Leaf beforehand), I'll try to use the SPS to add some charge to the Leaf when the sun is shining. Since mainly I'll use the backup power for some lights (at night), in addition to the fridge and cable modem.
 
RustyShackleford said:
I finally tested the SPS today for the first time, and I tested it by trying to charge the Leaf with its portable charging cord - the one that can be connected to a 240vac outlet for Level2 charging, or to 120vac using a little adapter that fits over the 240vac plug - which of course I used the latter.

And it worked just fine. Until shade started impacting the panels. Which reduces the output much more than I'd been led to believe by some people at the solarpaneltalk forum who said I didn't need optimizers ...

This is the way I'll likely use the SPS too. In the rare event of a several day power outage (or one that takes me by surprise, so I can't fully charge the Leaf beforehand), I'll try to use the SPS to add some charge to the Leaf when the sun is shining. Since mainly I'll use the backup power for some lights (at night), in addition to the fridge and cable modem.
A critical issue now is, can the Leaf be charged WHILE it is switched on (into "ready" mode) ? Because it has to be switched on in order to supply 12vdc current to my 120vac inverter. And I'd like to be able to run that inverter even during the day while the sun is shining and I'm using SPS to top up the battery.
 
Back
Top