What is going to be your next EV?

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More than likely, this will be my next EV :)

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Pondering whether to sell the Leaf this year. It's a good car, performs as advertised in every way, but the shift away from CCS has me spooked - I'm expecting its resale value to plummet later this year when other options really start to be available. Right now we can get not quite what we paid for it in Colorado, a little shy of 2 years old, with 11k miles.

Tesla offered $20k in trade, for example. Not bad, and I should be able to do a bit better than that.

Our situation is a bit different, as my wife is still trying to recover from a debilitating brain injury suffered 2+ years ago. We bought the Leaf hoping she could drive it, but so far, no luck. We live in the suburbs, and while we love our location, it's not walkable. So we may be faced with some bigger decisions around downsizing well before we otherwise would, and the Leaf might well become part of that process, CCS or no.

If we do move to something smaller, walkable and transit-oriented, then the camper and the Audi will also go. (I won't have free storage available anymore.) We'll keep the roadster for a bit, and probably buy a Tesla Model 3 LR AWD. Make that our general purpose car.

Lots to think about. We should be in a position to decide in a few months.

Edit: I've decided to keep the roadster and not to go with the Tesla unless we sell the camper and the Audi. We'll keep the Audi as a tow vehicle as long as we have the trailer. There is no other tow vehicle I'd rather have, it's paid for, and has a 10 yr 120k mile warranty due to dieselgate. Hard to beat. 4 years to go on the warranty.
 
Why are you spooked? Do you think CHAdeMO will go away tomorrow? I expect at least 10 years.

Also may I ask how far you drive your LEAF? If you just drive around the metro area you don't need DCFC at all IMHO. I drive up to Fort Collins or down to Colorado Springs all off my home charging (I have a plus). I need CHAdeMO when I go to Telluride, Moab, or the like. Nearer camping an RV outlet is plenty. If you don't go so far CHAdeMO could disappear tomorrow and the car would be fine. Why not use the car for a decade and not worry about resale value?
 
salyavin said:
Why are you spooked? Do you think CHAdeMO will go away tomorrow? I expect at least 10 years.

Also may I ask how far you drive your LEAF? If you just drive around the metro area you don't need DCFC at all IMHO. I drive up to Fort Collins or down to Colorado Springs all off my home charging (I have a plus). I need CHAdeMO when I go to Telluride, Moab, or the like. Nearer camping an RV outlet is plenty. If you don't go so far CHAdeMO could disappear tomorrow and the car would be fine. Why not use the car for a decade and not worry about resale value?

The short answer is that it binds you to trip planning, and sometimes inconvenient trip planning. Today we drove into the city, and then drove to the neighboring city of Santa Fe ~ 60 miles away before returning home. I didn't know my SoC exactly but I was sure it was over 50% so Superchargers were easily accessible and I didn't worry about charging up the car in the morning. On the way to Santa Fe I decided to drive 80 mph. I didn't bother asking myself if the car had enough charge ... because Santa Fe has a Supercharger en-route. I didn't bother checking how much head-wind because .... you guessed it, I could always take a short stop at the Supercharger. Winter driving ? No problem ... because, well, you guessed it.

A really good, reliable and fast FC network is worth its weight in gold. Or latinum, if we are talking about an EV like a LEAF with poor instrumentation.
 
Well to me it is a waste of time not to charge before a intercity trip like that as one has to go off route and wait at a supercharger or other DCFC. From my point of view it is less effort and time to charge at home for those range of trips. I regularly do those 60 mile intercity trips. That said as you probably know if you've been back up here along the front range we have dense DCFC including CHAdeMO (albeit mostly 50kw as EA seems to have turned it back down except for a few EVGo 100kw) so we can do similar just not as fast charging time and with variable pricing. We have so many CHAdeMO in front range area I don't expect them to start fading for about 10 years, many are new. Don't get me wrong Superchargers are faster and cheaper than CHAdeMO. Charging at home is faster (plug in when you get home, walk away, no wasted time) and even cheaper but that only is good up to about Fort Collins or Colorado Springs and back before one reverts to DCFC. DCFC is worth it's weight in latinum as you say as it allows greater travel range.
 
Great input you guys, thanks. In practice, I have yet to charge away from home to date. We have other cars for over-the-road trips, which more often than not involve towing the camper or traveling to a trailhead. We have taken the Leaf as far as Ft Collins and back in the same day. No charging needed. We are also on Xcel's time-of-use plan, so overnight charging is dirt cheap.

I am spooked mostly around market perceptions. Whether Chademo goes away overnight or not (not expecting that myself), the perception that it's a dead end doesn't help resale value. I am also thinking that the EV market is evolving quickly, and we most likely won't keep the Leaf as long as we have our other vehicles.

We normally keep our cars a good long time (although not forever) - this is kind of new for us. But we have 3 vehicles and just me as the driver right now. By any reasonable standard, that's pretty extravagant. We don't even drive that much anymore due to my wife's condition. Everything is paid off, so yes, we could stand pat. But depreciation, insurance and annual registrations add up. So the background around my wife's situation is also driving my thinking. If I'm going to sell the Leaf anyway, then now's the time. If we don't stay in our current home and downsize, there will be a lot of hard decisions ahead of us.

I foresee a time when we have just the roadster and 1 other car - an EV that is capable of easily traveling cross-country, but not for towing. The question is whether that happens this year or in more like 5. After much thought I've decided to keep the roadster until it gets cranky. It's 14 years old now, but has just 26k miles.

Sagebrush, I appreciate your perspective on the differences in fast charging. I know you're familiar with both. Salyavin, appreciate your local insights. Thanks again.
 
frontrangeleaf said:
Great input you guys, thanks. In practice, I have yet to charge away from home to date. We have other cars for over-the-road trips, which more often than not involve towing the camper or traveling to a trailhead. We have taken the Leaf as far as Ft Collins and back in the same day. No charging needed. We are also on Xcel's time-of-use plan, so overnight charging is dirt cheap.

I am spooked mostly around market perceptions. Whether Chademo goes away overnight or not (not expecting that myself), the perception that it's a dead end doesn't help resale value. I am also thinking that the EV market is evolving quickly, and we most likely won't keep the Leaf as long as we have our other vehicles.

We normally keep our cars a good long time (although not forever) - this is kind of new for us. But we have 3 vehicles and just me as the driver right now. By any reasonable standard, that's pretty extravagant. We don't even drive that much anymore due to my wife's condition. Everything is paid off, so yes, we could stand pat. But depreciation, insurance and annual registrations add up. So the background around my wife's situation is also driving my thinking. If I'm going to sell the Leaf anyway, then now's the time. If we don't stay in our current home and downsize, there will be a lot of hard decisions ahead of us.

I foresee a time when we have just the roadster and 1 other car - an EV that is capable of easily traveling cross-country, but not for towing. The question is whether that happens this year or in more like 5. After much thought I've decided to keep the roadster until it gets cranky. It's 14 years old now, but has just 26k miles.

Sagebrush, I appreciate your perspective on the differences in fast charging. I know you're familiar with both. Salyavin, appreciate your local insights. Thanks again.
I think that for you the real question is who gets you to autonomous driving? For your wife that could be the kicker. Value of a used Leaf is minimal and most of that value is lost in the first 3-4 years. CHADEMO is going away but for a car used mostly in town, DCFC is not a big deal. A 5 year old Leaf isn't likely to be driven cross-country anyway. If you keep the Leaf for a couple of years more, you won't lose a lot more to depreciation and you will have a wider selection of EV's to choose from. Maybe even the rumored $25K Tesla 2. On the other hand, you can tow with a model Y now or wait for the Cybertruck. If autonomous driving isn't that important to you, keep the Leaf and drive it into the ground then buy something that fits your current needs. If you think that the autonomous driving feature could be useful, then buy a 3 or Y and trade the Leaf in.
 
I do get the downsizing, actually it is very relevant to me as I am involved in the 2nd downsizing for my elderly father up in Fort Collins. For vehicles we are getting rid of his 42 year old RV, and his pickup truck leaving him with a Corolla only.

On CHAdeMO affecting the resale value of the LEAF I really don't think it makes that difference. Most "normal" people have no idea about CCS or CHAdeMO or future trends. That said the LEAF loses value very quickly especially in the first few years so your feeling about selling soon does make good sense if you don't plan to keep it long term. You are right to sell the LEAF now if you don't plan to keep it.

The roadster would certainly be more fun and gives you access to the supercharger network. It may cost more to fix if something goes wrong though if that is a consideration. The roadster will have less driver assist than even your LEAF I believe.
 
KBB gives a used 2014 LEAF with 70,000 miles as $6,000 locally.

Not as good as a 2014 Civic with 70,000 miles, $10,300 locally

Considering the Federal tax credit and 6 years of $1 gallon equivalent electric fuel, I'm ahead. Minimal repair and maintenance, quiet and responsive.

With different circumstances, I'd buy another.

I did buy something different, as the LEAF no longer worked for us due to passenger issues.
 
Buying a LEAF is not a lifetime commitment to the car type or brand (some minority of Tesla people seem to feel buying a Tesla is).
My desire is to have people on EVs, you have an ETron so you make me happy ;)
 
johnlocke said:
frontrangeleaf said:
Great input you guys, thanks. In practice, I have yet to charge away from home to date. We have other cars for over-the-road trips, which more often than not involve towing the camper or traveling to a trailhead. We have taken the Leaf as far as Ft Collins and back in the same day. No charging needed. We are also on Xcel's time-of-use plan, so overnight charging is dirt cheap.

I am spooked mostly around market perceptions. Whether Chademo goes away overnight or not (not expecting that myself), the perception that it's a dead end doesn't help resale value. I am also thinking that the EV market is evolving quickly, and we most likely won't keep the Leaf as long as we have our other vehicles.

We normally keep our cars a good long time (although not forever) - this is kind of new for us. But we have 3 vehicles and just me as the driver right now. By any reasonable standard, that's pretty extravagant. We don't even drive that much anymore due to my wife's condition. Everything is paid off, so yes, we could stand pat. But depreciation, insurance and annual registrations add up. So the background around my wife's situation is also driving my thinking. If I'm going to sell the Leaf anyway, then now's the time. If we don't stay in our current home and downsize, there will be a lot of hard decisions ahead of us.

I foresee a time when we have just the roadster and 1 other car - an EV that is capable of easily traveling cross-country, but not for towing. The question is whether that happens this year or in more like 5. After much thought I've decided to keep the roadster until it gets cranky. It's 14 years old now, but has just 26k miles.

Sagebrush, I appreciate your perspective on the differences in fast charging. I know you're familiar with both. Salyavin, appreciate your local insights. Thanks again.
I think that for you the real question is who gets you to autonomous driving? For your wife that could be the kicker. Value of a used Leaf is minimal and most of that value is lost in the first 3-4 years. CHADEMO is going away but for a car used mostly in town, DCFC is not a big deal. A 5 year old Leaf isn't likely to be driven cross-country anyway. If you keep the Leaf for a couple of years more, you won't lose a lot more to depreciation and you will have a wider selection of EV's to choose from. Maybe even the rumored $25K Tesla 2. On the other hand, you can tow with a model Y now or wait for the Cybertruck. If autonomous driving isn't that important to you, keep the Leaf and drive it into the ground then buy something that fits your current needs. If you think that the autonomous driving feature could be useful, then buy a 3 or Y and trade the Leaf in.

Thanks, John. Being in IT, you can color me skeptical on autonomous driving really getting to the level of maturity necessary to be useful to my wife in the city. Happy to be wrong about that. She would be hard pressed to intervene in a timely manner when something goes wrong. I think we're at least 5 years away, and maybe more like 10.

Towing with an EV is not really an option where we live on the Front Range. Our Q5 TDI has the equivalent of a ~300 kwh battery after accounting for differences in thermal efficiency of EV vs diesel drivetrains, one that would weigh no more than current 80 kwh batteries, meaning we would need to see a 3-4x improvement in energy density/kilogram for that to be viable. I don't see that happening in the near future. Can you tow? Sure. But you're stopping an awful lot, and the charging infrastructure just isn't set up for a vehicle + trailer. We'll stick to the Q5 for as long as we own the camper.
 
salyavin said:
I do get the downsizing, actually it is very relevant to me as I am involved in the 2nd downsizing for my elderly father up in Fort Collins. For vehicles we are getting rid of his 42 year old RV, and his pickup truck leaving him with a Corolla only.

On CHAdeMO affecting the resale value of the LEAF I really don't think it makes that difference. Most "normal" people have no idea about CCS or CHAdeMO or future trends. That said the LEAF loses value very quickly especially in the first few years so your feeling about selling soon does make good sense if you don't plan to keep it long term. You are right to sell the LEAF now if you don't plan to keep it.

The roadster would certainly be more fun and gives you access to the supercharger network. It may cost more to fix if something goes wrong though if that is a consideration. The roadster will have less driver assist than even your LEAF I believe.

Heh. Wrong roadster, but thanks! :) My wife has a 2007 e86 series BMW Z4. Fun ride. 6-speed stick with short throw shifter to die for. Makes pretty noises without being obnoxious. Goes exactly where you point it in the instant you do so. Much lighter than an EV - tossable. Also a dying breed. It's still the car that puts a grin on her face, but not like it did when she could drive it. I don't foresee us ever owning a Tesla roadster, although we've joked about it.
 
frontrangeleaf said:
johnlocke said:
frontrangeleaf said:
Great input you guys, thanks. In practice, I have yet to charge away from home to date. We have other cars for over-the-road trips, which more often than not involve towing the camper or traveling to a trailhead. We have taken the Leaf as far as Ft Collins and back in the same day. No charging needed. We are also on Xcel's time-of-use plan, so overnight charging is dirt cheap.

I am spooked mostly around market perceptions. Whether Chademo goes away overnight or not (not expecting that myself), the perception that it's a dead end doesn't help resale value. I am also thinking that the EV market is evolving quickly, and we most likely won't keep the Leaf as long as we have our other vehicles.

We normally keep our cars a good long time (although not forever) - this is kind of new for us. But we have 3 vehicles and just me as the driver right now. By any reasonable standard, that's pretty extravagant. We don't even drive that much anymore due to my wife's condition. Everything is paid off, so yes, we could stand pat. But depreciation, insurance and annual registrations add up. So the background around my wife's situation is also driving my thinking. If I'm going to sell the Leaf anyway, then now's the time. If we don't stay in our current home and downsize, there will be a lot of hard decisions ahead of us.

I foresee a time when we have just the roadster and 1 other car - an EV that is capable of easily traveling cross-country, but not for towing. The question is whether that happens this year or in more like 5. After much thought I've decided to keep the roadster until it gets cranky. It's 14 years old now, but has just 26k miles.

Sagebrush, I appreciate your perspective on the differences in fast charging. I know you're familiar with both. Salyavin, appreciate your local insights. Thanks again.
I think that for you the real question is who gets you to autonomous driving? For your wife that could be the kicker. Value of a used Leaf is minimal and most of that value is lost in the first 3-4 years. CHADEMO is going away but for a car used mostly in town, DCFC is not a big deal. A 5 year old Leaf isn't likely to be driven cross-country anyway. If you keep the Leaf for a couple of years more, you won't lose a lot more to depreciation and you will have a wider selection of EV's to choose from. Maybe even the rumored $25K Tesla 2. On the other hand, you can tow with a model Y now or wait for the Cybertruck. If autonomous driving isn't that important to you, keep the Leaf and drive it into the ground then buy something that fits your current needs. If you think that the autonomous driving feature could be useful, then buy a 3 or Y and trade the Leaf in.

Thanks, John. Being in IT, you can color me skeptical on autonomous driving really getting to the level of maturity necessary to be useful to my wife in the city. Happy to be wrong about that. She would be hard pressed to intervene in a timely manner when something goes wrong. I think we're at least 5 years away, and maybe more like 10.

Towing with an EV is not really an option where we live on the Front Range. Our Q5 TDI has the equivalent of a ~300 kwh battery after accounting for differences in thermal efficiency of EV vs diesel drivetrains, one that would weigh no more than current 80 kwh batteries, meaning we would need to see a 3-4x improvement in energy density/kilogram for that to be viable. I don't see that happening in the near future. Can you tow? Sure. But you're stopping an awful lot, and the charging infrastructure just isn't set up for a vehicle + trailer. We'll stick to the Q5 for as long as we own the camper.
OK, so you keep the gasser for towing and you've got an SL+ for everything else. The roadster is just for fun. If the Leaf is paid for, I'd keep the SL+ and drive it into the ground. There's little maintenance and electricity is cheap. If you do need to take a cross-country trip, take the gasser for that as well. How many cross-country trips would you take without the trailer anyway?
Only if you really need to do 300 mile plus trips once or twice a month should you trade in the SL+. Otherwise drive the Leaf for a few more years and wait for someone to come up with a cheap EV or full self driving that works.
 
I just got my three month lease extension. I really miss the days where they'd offer a year extension, plus one to three payments waived! Instead, I'll be paying more per month - sales tax on the extension.

Looking at current offers, I see the Leaf S40 for $199 down and $199 a month, which is effectively zero down. There are some fantastic Bolt lease offers, but mainly in CA. I'm going to tentatively plan on leasing something else in July, and will also contact Carmax about buying my car, and at least saving me the end of lease fees.
 
Ariya looks attractive but one thing I need to verify is it looks like the Ariya may have less cargo room than the LEAF.
What I have (maybe wrong)
Ariya
Cargo volume 16.5 cu ft (FWD)
14.6 (e-4ORCE)

LEAF
Cargo volume 23.6 cu ft

is this right? If less cargo room than a LEAF I have little use for it.

The ID.4 has 30.3 for comparison. I am talking about keeping the seats up with people in them.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
3 months puts you close to when Ariya will be available.

That was my ostensible reason for extending. If the Ariya is delayed until Fall, I can get another three month extension. The Ariya is really too big and too expensive for me, though. Ideally I'd like a cheap EV with a low liftover in the rear and lots of cargo room. The closest I can get to that is a Bolt LT with the rear seats down.
 
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