WetEV
Posts: 4457
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: What is going to be your next EV?

Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:56 am

KBB gives a used 2014 LEAF with 70,000 miles as $6,000 locally.

Not as good as a 2014 Civic with 70,000 miles, $10,300 locally

Considering the Federal tax credit and 6 years of $1 gallon equivalent electric fuel, I'm ahead. Minimal repair and maintenance, quiet and responsive.

With different circumstances, I'd buy another.

I did buy something different, as the LEAF no longer worked for us due to passenger issues.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

salyavin
Posts: 329
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:51 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Dec 2019
Leaf Number: 318726
Location: Littleton , CO

Re: What is going to be your next EV?

Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:30 am

Buying a LEAF is not a lifetime commitment to the car type or brand (some minority of Tesla people seem to feel buying a Tesla is).
My desire is to have people on EVs, you have an ETron so you make me happy ;)

frontrangeleaf
Posts: 193
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:07 am
Delivery Date: 08 Jul 2019
Location: Denver Area

Re: What is going to be your next EV?

Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:43 am

johnlocke wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:51 am
frontrangeleaf wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:58 am
Great input you guys, thanks. In practice, I have yet to charge away from home to date. We have other cars for over-the-road trips, which more often than not involve towing the camper or traveling to a trailhead. We have taken the Leaf as far as Ft Collins and back in the same day. No charging needed. We are also on Xcel's time-of-use plan, so overnight charging is dirt cheap.

I am spooked mostly around market perceptions. Whether Chademo goes away overnight or not (not expecting that myself), the perception that it's a dead end doesn't help resale value. I am also thinking that the EV market is evolving quickly, and we most likely won't keep the Leaf as long as we have our other vehicles.

We normally keep our cars a good long time (although not forever) - this is kind of new for us. But we have 3 vehicles and just me as the driver right now. By any reasonable standard, that's pretty extravagant. We don't even drive that much anymore due to my wife's condition. Everything is paid off, so yes, we could stand pat. But depreciation, insurance and annual registrations add up. So the background around my wife's situation is also driving my thinking. If I'm going to sell the Leaf anyway, then now's the time. If we don't stay in our current home and downsize, there will be a lot of hard decisions ahead of us.

I foresee a time when we have just the roadster and 1 other car - an EV that is capable of easily traveling cross-country, but not for towing. The question is whether that happens this year or in more like 5. After much thought I've decided to keep the roadster until it gets cranky. It's 14 years old now, but has just 26k miles.

Sagebrush, I appreciate your perspective on the differences in fast charging. I know you're familiar with both. Salyavin, appreciate your local insights. Thanks again.
I think that for you the real question is who gets you to autonomous driving? For your wife that could be the kicker. Value of a used Leaf is minimal and most of that value is lost in the first 3-4 years. CHADEMO is going away but for a car used mostly in town, DCFC is not a big deal. A 5 year old Leaf isn't likely to be driven cross-country anyway. If you keep the Leaf for a couple of years more, you won't lose a lot more to depreciation and you will have a wider selection of EV's to choose from. Maybe even the rumored $25K Tesla 2. On the other hand, you can tow with a model Y now or wait for the Cybertruck. If autonomous driving isn't that important to you, keep the Leaf and drive it into the ground then buy something that fits your current needs. If you think that the autonomous driving feature could be useful, then buy a 3 or Y and trade the Leaf in.
Thanks, John. Being in IT, you can color me skeptical on autonomous driving really getting to the level of maturity necessary to be useful to my wife in the city. Happy to be wrong about that. She would be hard pressed to intervene in a timely manner when something goes wrong. I think we're at least 5 years away, and maybe more like 10.

Towing with an EV is not really an option where we live on the Front Range. Our Q5 TDI has the equivalent of a ~300 kwh battery after accounting for differences in thermal efficiency of EV vs diesel drivetrains, one that would weigh no more than current 80 kwh batteries, meaning we would need to see a 3-4x improvement in energy density/kilogram for that to be viable. I don't see that happening in the near future. Can you tow? Sure. But you're stopping an awful lot, and the charging infrastructure just isn't set up for a vehicle + trailer. We'll stick to the Q5 for as long as we own the camper.
Empty-nesters - NW Denver-Boulder Area

2019 Leaf SL Plus
2015 Audi Q5 TDI
2007 BMW Z4 3.0Si
2012 VW GTI: SOLD

frontrangeleaf
Posts: 193
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:07 am
Delivery Date: 08 Jul 2019
Location: Denver Area

Re: What is going to be your next EV?

Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:48 am

salyavin wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:07 am
I do get the downsizing, actually it is very relevant to me as I am involved in the 2nd downsizing for my elderly father up in Fort Collins. For vehicles we are getting rid of his 42 year old RV, and his pickup truck leaving him with a Corolla only.

On CHAdeMO affecting the resale value of the LEAF I really don't think it makes that difference. Most "normal" people have no idea about CCS or CHAdeMO or future trends. That said the LEAF loses value very quickly especially in the first few years so your feeling about selling soon does make good sense if you don't plan to keep it long term. You are right to sell the LEAF now if you don't plan to keep it.

The roadster would certainly be more fun and gives you access to the supercharger network. It may cost more to fix if something goes wrong though if that is a consideration. The roadster will have less driver assist than even your LEAF I believe.
Heh. Wrong roadster, but thanks! :) My wife has a 2007 e86 series BMW Z4. Fun ride. 6-speed stick with short throw shifter to die for. Makes pretty noises without being obnoxious. Goes exactly where you point it in the instant you do so. Much lighter than an EV - tossable. Also a dying breed. It's still the car that puts a grin on her face, but not like it did when she could drive it. I don't foresee us ever owning a Tesla roadster, although we've joked about it.
Empty-nesters - NW Denver-Boulder Area

2019 Leaf SL Plus
2015 Audi Q5 TDI
2007 BMW Z4 3.0Si
2012 VW GTI: SOLD

johnlocke
Posts: 709
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: What is going to be your next EV?

Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:25 pm

frontrangeleaf wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:43 am
johnlocke wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:51 am
frontrangeleaf wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:58 am
Great input you guys, thanks. In practice, I have yet to charge away from home to date. We have other cars for over-the-road trips, which more often than not involve towing the camper or traveling to a trailhead. We have taken the Leaf as far as Ft Collins and back in the same day. No charging needed. We are also on Xcel's time-of-use plan, so overnight charging is dirt cheap.

I am spooked mostly around market perceptions. Whether Chademo goes away overnight or not (not expecting that myself), the perception that it's a dead end doesn't help resale value. I am also thinking that the EV market is evolving quickly, and we most likely won't keep the Leaf as long as we have our other vehicles.

We normally keep our cars a good long time (although not forever) - this is kind of new for us. But we have 3 vehicles and just me as the driver right now. By any reasonable standard, that's pretty extravagant. We don't even drive that much anymore due to my wife's condition. Everything is paid off, so yes, we could stand pat. But depreciation, insurance and annual registrations add up. So the background around my wife's situation is also driving my thinking. If I'm going to sell the Leaf anyway, then now's the time. If we don't stay in our current home and downsize, there will be a lot of hard decisions ahead of us.

I foresee a time when we have just the roadster and 1 other car - an EV that is capable of easily traveling cross-country, but not for towing. The question is whether that happens this year or in more like 5. After much thought I've decided to keep the roadster until it gets cranky. It's 14 years old now, but has just 26k miles.

Sagebrush, I appreciate your perspective on the differences in fast charging. I know you're familiar with both. Salyavin, appreciate your local insights. Thanks again.
I think that for you the real question is who gets you to autonomous driving? For your wife that could be the kicker. Value of a used Leaf is minimal and most of that value is lost in the first 3-4 years. CHADEMO is going away but for a car used mostly in town, DCFC is not a big deal. A 5 year old Leaf isn't likely to be driven cross-country anyway. If you keep the Leaf for a couple of years more, you won't lose a lot more to depreciation and you will have a wider selection of EV's to choose from. Maybe even the rumored $25K Tesla 2. On the other hand, you can tow with a model Y now or wait for the Cybertruck. If autonomous driving isn't that important to you, keep the Leaf and drive it into the ground then buy something that fits your current needs. If you think that the autonomous driving feature could be useful, then buy a 3 or Y and trade the Leaf in.
Thanks, John. Being in IT, you can color me skeptical on autonomous driving really getting to the level of maturity necessary to be useful to my wife in the city. Happy to be wrong about that. She would be hard pressed to intervene in a timely manner when something goes wrong. I think we're at least 5 years away, and maybe more like 10.

Towing with an EV is not really an option where we live on the Front Range. Our Q5 TDI has the equivalent of a ~300 kwh battery after accounting for differences in thermal efficiency of EV vs diesel drivetrains, one that would weigh no more than current 80 kwh batteries, meaning we would need to see a 3-4x improvement in energy density/kilogram for that to be viable. I don't see that happening in the near future. Can you tow? Sure. But you're stopping an awful lot, and the charging infrastructure just isn't set up for a vehicle + trailer. We'll stick to the Q5 for as long as we own the camper.
OK, so you keep the gasser for towing and you've got an SL+ for everything else. The roadster is just for fun. If the Leaf is paid for, I'd keep the SL+ and drive it into the ground. There's little maintenance and electricity is cheap. If you do need to take a cross-country trip, take the gasser for that as well. How many cross-country trips would you take without the trailer anyway?
Only if you really need to do 300 mile plus trips once or twice a month should you trade in the SL+. Otherwise drive the Leaf for a few more years and wait for someone to come up with a cheap EV or full self driving that works.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

frontrangeleaf
Posts: 193
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:07 am
Delivery Date: 08 Jul 2019
Location: Denver Area

Re: What is going to be your next EV?

Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:44 pm

Thanks, John. More to think about.
Empty-nesters - NW Denver-Boulder Area

2019 Leaf SL Plus
2015 Audi Q5 TDI
2007 BMW Z4 3.0Si
2012 VW GTI: SOLD

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 17251
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: What is going to be your next EV?

Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:12 pm

I just got my three month lease extension. I really miss the days where they'd offer a year extension, plus one to three payments waived! Instead, I'll be paying more per month - sales tax on the extension.

Looking at current offers, I see the Leaf S40 for $199 down and $199 a month, which is effectively zero down. There are some fantastic Bolt lease offers, but mainly in CA. I'm going to tentatively plan on leasing something else in July, and will also contact Carmax about buying my car, and at least saving me the end of lease fees.
Brilliant Silver 2021 Leaf SV40 W/ Pro Pilot & Protection
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 2 lithium E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2884
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: What is going to be your next EV?

Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:45 pm

3 months puts you close to when Ariya will be available.
2019 S Plus (93.7% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (91.6% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

salyavin
Posts: 329
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:51 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Dec 2019
Leaf Number: 318726
Location: Littleton , CO

Re: What is going to be your next EV?

Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:41 pm

Ariya looks attractive but one thing I need to verify is it looks like the Ariya may have less cargo room than the LEAF.
What I have (maybe wrong)
Ariya
Cargo volume 16.5 cu ft (FWD)
14.6 (e-4ORCE)

LEAF
Cargo volume 23.6 cu ft

is this right? If less cargo room than a LEAF I have little use for it.

The ID.4 has 30.3 for comparison. I am talking about keeping the seats up with people in them.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 17251
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: What is going to be your next EV?

Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:44 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:45 pm
3 months puts you close to when Ariya will be available.
That was my ostensible reason for extending. If the Ariya is delayed until Fall, I can get another three month extension. The Ariya is really too big and too expensive for me, though. Ideally I'd like a cheap EV with a low liftover in the rear and lots of cargo room. The closest I can get to that is a Bolt LT with the rear seats down.
Brilliant Silver 2021 Leaf SV40 W/ Pro Pilot & Protection
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 2 lithium E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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