2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

CaptLarry said:

I think this is a scam

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It is not.
However, the car will take a couple months to recalibrate the BMS before you will have a good idea of the battery health. If your battery really has degraded into the 70s SOH it will be apparent to LeafSpy (and by capacity bars) by spring.

Jan 1, 2021 update. 285 GID's, SOH=78.52%, Hx=52.10%. 84146 total miles, 39217 miles on new battery, 145 L3 total, 31 on new battery, 1668 l2 total, 794 on new battery. I'm still not driving a lot these days. No real change in the battery this month, It is cool and mostly dry here which is easy on the battery. It is still iffy that the battery will lose 4 bars before the warranty expires. Most likely is that it will lose the second bar shortly and most likely the third before the warranty expires but the fourth won't drop in time. At this point I'm waiting to see what Biden does with domestic EV credits. The ID4 doesn't look like it will work as well a Tesla 3 or Y for me but the $7500 tax incentive is tempting. If I could get something similar on a Tesla, that would tip the scales to the Tesla. No matter how cheaply I could buy a Leaf right now, I don't trust Nissan to stand behind the car nor have they addressed the battery problem. The Aryia will address that issue but it won't be available till late this year or the beginning of next year and I still don't trust Nissan.

johnlocke said:

Jan 1, 2021 update. 285 GID's, SOH=78.52%, Hx=52.10%. 84146 total miles, 39217 miles on new battery, 145 L3 total, 31 on new battery, 1668 l2 total, 794 on new battery. I'm still not driving a lot these days. No real change in the battery this month, It is cool and mostly dry here which is easy on the battery. It is still iffy that the battery will lose 4 bars before the warranty expires. Most likely is that it will lose the second bar shortly and most likely the third before the warranty expires but the fourth won't drop in time. At this point I'm waiting to see what Biden does with domestic EV credits. The ID4 doesn't look like it will work as well a Tesla 3 or Y for me but the $7500 tax incentive is tempting. If I could get something similar on a Tesla, that would tip the scales to the Tesla. No matter how cheaply I could buy a Leaf right now, I don't trust Nissan to stand behind the car nor have they addressed the battery problem. The Aryia will address that issue but it won't be available till late this year or the beginning of next year and I still don't trust Nissan.

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There's also calendar life degradation. If your leaf is parked under the sun during the summer, it will still degrade without you adding any more miles, extending your remaining 15k miles of coverage.

Oils4AsphaultOnly said:

johnlocke said:

Jan 1, 2021 update. 285 GID's, SOH=78.52%, Hx=52.10%. 84146 total miles, 39217 miles on new battery, 145 L3 total, 31 on new battery, 1668 l2 total, 794 on new battery. I'm still not driving a lot these days. No real change in the battery this month, It is cool and mostly dry here which is easy on the battery. It is still iffy that the battery will lose 4 bars before the warranty expires. Most likely is that it will lose the second bar shortly and most likely the third before the warranty expires but the fourth won't drop in time. At this point I'm waiting to see what Biden does with domestic EV credits. The ID4 doesn't look like it will work as well a Tesla 3 or Y for me but the $7500 tax incentive is tempting. If I could get something similar on a Tesla, that would tip the scales to the Tesla. No matter how cheaply I could buy a Leaf right now, I don't trust Nissan to stand behind the car nor have they addressed the battery problem. The Aryia will address that issue but it won't be available till late this year or the beginning of next year and I still don't trust Nissan.

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There's also calendar life degradation. If your leaf is parked under the sun during the summer, it will still degrade without you adding any more miles, extending your remaining 15k miles of coverage.

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It sits in a carport that's mostly shaded. Doesn't help a lot on 100 degree+ days in the summer. As it stands now, I'm down to about a 75 mi range and it's 10 mi to anywhere and 14 mi to the grocery or fast food. I am keeping the battery at full charge most of the time in case i need to run out for something. I'm expecting the battery will last till just past the warranty and hoping that it fails earlier rather than later. I suppose I could try to game the system and let it sit with the A/C running full blast to run the battery down but that's not a sure bet and a PITA to do. If I'm lucky, Biden will push for a EV credit extension of some kind and I'll take advantage of the tax break.

Is there a way to tell if the battery firmware update has been done? ECU version number from LeafSpy perhaps?

I just picked up a 2016 with 42000 miles and 5 bars down. LeafSpy is showing SOH=55.6%, Hx=53.41%. Only 3 QCs but nearly 1800L2s, I am guessing the previous owner left it plugged in at home permanently.

I am thinking I got a good one that will get a new battery easily but am trying to figure out if I will have to jump through the hoop of a firmware upgrade and wait for bars to drop before getting the new battery.

ScottAi said:

Is there a way to tell if the battery firmware update has been done? ECU version number from LeafSpy perhaps?

I just picked up a 2016 with 42000 miles and 5 bars down. LeafSpy is showing SOH=55.6%, Hx=53.41%. Only 3 QCs but nearly 1800L2s, I am guessing the previous owner left it plugged in at home permanently.

I am thinking I got a good one that will get a new battery easily but am trying to figure out if I will have to jump through the hoop of a firmware upgrade and wait for bars to drop before getting the new battery.

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I just called Nissan's National Leaf hot line and was given a case file number before I ever contacted a dealership. They can tell you the history on your battery. I emailed a photo paperwork containing my proof of ownership showing my name and VIN. My Nissan case number stopped dealership blowback in my case. I live in a region with anti Leaf Nissan dealerships.

ScottAi said:

trying to figure out if I will have to jump through the hoop of a firmware upgrade and wait for bars to drop before getting the new battery.

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A range test or charge test would tell the tale about the actual battery capacity. Something to do while you wait to find out if the software update has been applied.

Feb 1, 2021 update. 283 GID's, SOH=78.42%, Hx=52.10%. 84873 total miles, 39944 miles on new battery, 145 L3 total, 31 on new battery, 1690 l2 total, 816 on new battery. I'm not driving a lot these days, maybe half of what I used to. No real change in the battery this month, It is cool and mostly dry here which is easy on the battery. It is still iffy that the battery will lose 4 bars before the warranty expires. Most likely is that it will lose the second bar shortly and most likely the third before the warranty expires but the fourth won't drop in time. I could look around for a 60KWH battery but I think I would be better off putting that $10K towards a new car instead. If I do get a second replacement battery, that just delays the inevitable. The software and hardware is improving so rapidly that even a 5 year old car is functionally obsolete.

Mar 1, 2021 update. 283 GID's, SOH=77.67%, Hx=51.04%. 85436 total miles, 40507 miles on new battery, 145 L3 total, 31 on new battery, 1706 l2 total, 832 on new battery. I only drove about 550 miles last month and the stats have barely changed. I should be losing the second bar anytime now. Between the cool weather and not driving nearly as much, battery degradation has slowed considerably. I've pretty much decided on the Model Y as my next car. Just waiting to see if congress passes a new EV incentive package. The Leaf is becoming harder to manage just due to the excessive battery degradation. I'm down to a 75 mile range currently and any trip i make uses nearly half the battery due to having to come back up the hill coming home. If I could have gotten the 40 KWH battery instead of the 30 KWH when they replaced the original battery, I'd be in much better shape.

Once the stop sale is lifted on recalled Bolts (all 2017 to 2018 + some 2019's), I'd imagine you should see a flood of Bolts of various ages being available on the market for cheap. They were already quite cheap once the 1st 3 year leases ran out but some folks have requested and been approved for buybacks, which would further expand the supply. 60 kWh battery is a game changer... Just saying...

(Per one of the associated docs at https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2017/CHEVROLET/BOLT/4%252520DR/FWD#recalls, https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2020/RCLRPT-20V701-6414.PDF at the end mentions the notifications for the final remedy should be in April and May.)

It is kinda too bad that when I bought my '19 Bolt new, the original 3 year leases (shortest GM was doing, AFAIK) hadn't run out yet so there were almost no used ones and the few that existed were overpriced (not worth it vs a new one w/tax credit and incentives). My '19 Bolt is not under recall per check last night and every time I've checked.

johnlocke said:

1706 l2 total, 832 on new battery.

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One question I have: When my leaf needs to recharge, my Leaf nearly always charges on the timer, overnight.

When you first plug in the charger, it charges for like 5s (presumably to figure out the rate, so that it can figure out when to start charging so that it is completed at 5am).

Does that 5s charge count as an actual L2 charge count (in the "1706" above)?

it does not affect anything, I am simply curious.

outerspaceguy said:

johnlocke said:

1706 l2 total, 832 on new battery.

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One question I have: When my leaf needs to recharge, my Leaf nearly always charges on the timer, overnight.

When you first plug in the charger, it charges for like 5s (presumably to figure out the rate, so that it can figure out when to start charging so that it is completed at 5am).

Does that 5s charge count as an actual L2 charge count (in the "1706" above)?

it does not affect anything, I am simply curious.

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See https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=589843#p589843.

I wouldn't be surprised if Nissan meant the counter to be something else (e.g. contactor cycles).

outerspaceguy said:

johnlocke said:

1706 l2 total, 832 on new battery.

Click to expand...

One question I have: When my leaf needs to recharge, my Leaf nearly always charges on the timer, overnight.

When you first plug in the charger, it charges for like 5s (presumably to figure out the rate, so that it can figure out when to start charging so that it is completed at 5am).

Does that 5s charge count as an actual L2 charge count (in the "1706" above)?

it does not affect anything, I am simply curious.

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I've seen posts from people about double charge cycles. I would bet that that is exactly what's happening. You could check by monitoring LeafSpy before plugging in and again after completing charging overnight. I only charge manually so I wouldn't know for sure.

Well, I lost my 3rd bar today at 51,000 on my 2016 30kwh Leaf. Built in May of 2016, probably sat fully charged in the sun till I bought it in Sept.

Leafspy says 71.90% SOH. Its been under 72.5% for several days.

So, I have right at 42 months left, including 4 Summers, to drop the 4th bar and get a new battery. And 49,000 miles to do it.

I am thinking I will indeed be getting a new battery at some point, unless Nissan fully tanks and cannot honor warranties......

Your Thoughts???

Agreed.

cdherman said:

Well, I lost my 3rd bar today at 51,000 on my 2016 30kwh Leaf. Built in May of 2016, probably sat fully charged in the sun till I bought it in Sept.
I am thinking I will indeed be getting a new battery at some point, unless Nissan fully tanks and cannot honor warranties......

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Be sure that the car has had the BMS firmware update performed. That is required before a warranty replacement and it could drastically change the SOH reporting.

goldbrick said:

cdherman said:

Well, I lost my 3rd bar today at 51,000 on my 2016 30kwh Leaf. Built in May of 2016, probably sat fully charged in the sun till I bought it in Sept.
I am thinking I will indeed be getting a new battery at some point, unless Nissan fully tanks and cannot honor warranties......

Click to expand...

Be sure that the car has had the BMS firmware update performed. That is required before a warranty replacement and it could drastically change the SOH reporting.

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He said he did per https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=23606&p=574483#p574483.

goldbrick said:

cdherman said:

Well, I lost my 3rd bar today at 51,000 on my 2016 30kwh Leaf. Built in May of 2016, probably sat fully charged in the sun till I bought it in Sept.
I am thinking I will indeed be getting a new battery at some point, unless Nissan fully tanks and cannot honor warranties......

Click to expand...

Be sure that the car has had the BMS firmware update performed. That is required before a warranty replacement and it could drastically change the SOH reporting.

Click to expand...

Yup. Done. I have NOT been getting yearly battery checks. Hope that is not a problem.

johnlocke said:

Mar 1, 2021 update. 283 GID's, SOH=77.67%, Hx=51.04%. 85436 total miles, 40507 miles on new battery, 145 L3 total, 31 on new battery, 1706 l2 total, 832 on new battery. I only drove about 550 miles last month and the stats have barely changed. I should be losing the second bar anytime now. Between the cool weather and not driving nearly as much, battery degradation has slowed considerably. I've pretty much decided on the Model Y as my next car. Just waiting to see if congress passes a new EV incentive package. The Leaf is becoming harder to manage just due to the excessive battery degradation. I'm down to a 75 mile range currently and any trip i make uses nearly half the battery due to having to come back up the hill coming home. If I could have gotten the 40 KWH battery instead of the 30 KWH when they replaced the original battery, I'd be in much better shape.

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My wrecked 2016 SL SOH is still at 96.05 four months later so use it or lose does not seem to apply perhaps. Never figured out the electrical issue the mint 2015 SV so we'll starting stripping it for needed parts. Thanks for your report.

Hello all,

This is my first post to this forum. Thanks for all your great posts and willingness to share thoughts!
We are on our second leaf... first was a 2013 -3 year lease then this 2016 30 kWh lease/purchase. Battery degradation is a big issue here.

I've been doing research and have found the 30 kWh batteries are degrading faster than the 24 kWhs. I'm at 9 bars and expect to lose another one at any time. Almost 47,000 miles. Over 3070 L1/L2 charges and only 8 QCs. Leafspy says my SOH is 67% and my Hx is 35.3% and Ahr is 53.47%. Living in SF Bay Area with moderate climate. Always charged to 100% due to commute distance.

Early Morning drive to the airport- 32 miles... halfway home I was forced to pull into a QC charger point as mileage was below 10.
Took it to local dealer in December 2020 and they say their only tests reveal no DTC codes and nine bars so cannot help.

Fast forward to February 2021: Max mileage to drive on dashboard is now 75miles. But after driving 39 miles at highway speeds I have only 19 miles left. So, similar performance as before.

Called corporate Nissan two weeks ago and they finally relented and started a case number and asked me to take it back to the dealer. Dealer said the exact same thing as before. Got a call from the local dealer who offered the advice of a tech field rep to retest some things of interest. Dropped it off today. They are going to drive it until the range is below 10 miles then QC and or L2 charge once or twice to check capacity and voltage levels.
My question is this, has Nissan uploaded battery software coding that stretches out the SOH readings before it will lose that fourth bar? I could not get corporate nor the local to the dealership to tell me what correlation there was between Bars and SOH or any other parameter. Does anyone possess that?
I've also read on this forum that 2016 30 KWH users have had warranty replacement using a 40 KWH battery pack. Any ideas why? Admission of poor performance of the 30kWh packs or unavailability?

Thanks for your thoughts or pointing me to other threads to assist with others having same issue.