alozzy
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Re: SOLD. 2011 Leaf SL for sale by original owner $3500

Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:58 am

I wonder what people would be willing to pay for a 2011/2012 LEAF with a 62 kWh pack upgrade?

It seems unlikely that someone would be willing to pay $14K, but that's realistically what a company would need to charge to make pack upgrades a profitable business...

For sake of argument, a cost breakdown:
.
  • $3K for 2011/2012 LEAF
  • $9K for 62kWh pack
  • $2K for labor, retrofit software/hardware, profit margin
I don't know if I would pay that much - the buyer has to gamble that the expensive components are going to last at least 5 years to make it worthwhile. For a retrofit cost of $10K, I wouldn't hesitate but it seems unlikely that used packs will drop to $5K any time soon...

I find myself waffling on the pack upgrade option, to the point of exasperation. I think, at this point, I would wait for a 2018 LEAF to drop down to the right price instead. Right now, I could pick up a 2018 SV starting at $16K in the Seattle area.

It's a little depressing, but I suspect a lot of these older LEAFs are going to end up in the junkyard as a result - mine included in a few more years.

SageBrush
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Re: SOLD. 2011 Leaf SL for sale by original owner $3500

Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:40 pm

alozzy wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:58 am
It's a little depressing, but I suspect a lot of these older LEAFs are going to end up in the junkyard as a result - mine included in a few more years.
That was my thought too, but I've had a change of heart.
These degraded LEAFs are **really** good golf carts.

For once, I'm not being cheeky here. As Lefty points out, the cars have a valuable life after they stop being versatile commuter cars. A 15 mile radius EV is still a lot of functionality, albeit far from a 'normal' car.

LeftieBiker
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Re: SOLD. 2011 Leaf SL for sale by original owner $3500

Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:30 pm

The term is "NEV" for "Neighborhood Electric Vehicle." The designation came about in the Nineties, IIRC, and the idea was that people would flock to 25MPH minicars that could carry two people and some groceries, as second vehicles for use near home. Unfortunately, they didn't. A 90MPH semi-luxury EV, with climate control, nice stereo, and lots of room, and as much or more range for the same price or less, that may be more appealing.
Brilliant Silver 2021 Leaf SV40 W/ Pro Pilot & Protection
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 2 lithium E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

alozzy
Posts: 1970
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Location: Vancouver, BC
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Re: SOLD. 2011 Leaf SL for sale by original owner $3500

Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:33 pm

Let's hope so...

Rat
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Re: SOLD. 2011 Leaf SL for sale by original owner $3500

Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:34 pm

The fellow who bought it told me his daily commute is approximately two miles round trip.
I just checked the ship tracker for my Volvo. I thought it would offload in Savannah, since that was the original destination showing, but it docked there two days ago and is now en route to the Panama Canal, so I assume my car is still on it. The Leaf buyer may have to wait a bit longer than anticipated, although I didn't give him any date.
2011 SL down to 9 capacity bars
OnWords

danrjones
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Re: SOLD. 2011 Leaf SL for sale by original owner $3500

Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:37 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 2:40 pm
alozzy wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 11:58 am
It's a little depressing, but I suspect a lot of these older LEAFs are going to end up in the junkyard as a result - mine included in a few more years.
That was my thought too, but I've had a change of heart.
These degraded LEAFs are **really** good golf carts.

For once, I'm not being cheeky here. As Lefty points out, the cars have a valuable life after they stop being versatile commuter cars. A 15 mile radius EV is still a lot of functionality, albeit far from a 'normal' car.
So what happened to all the talk about old packs becoming grid storage?

I'd gladly buy old leaf packs and slap them into storage for my solar. But I need a COTS (Commercial off the shelf) box that I don't believe exists. Someone really needs to make a simple box that acts as the charge controller / inverter/transformer and software, but is compatible with a wide variety of EV battery packs. Then you just buy this "box", find yourself an old eV pack, and you have grid storage. I ended up paying about a $1 per watt after tax credit to install more solar for my house last year, and a Tesla power wall is / was just way too expansive.

Even a badly degraded 2011 Leaf pack, lets say at 60%, so around 15 kWh of useable storage left... and then knock that down to 10 kWh with buffers to help keep it running. What does a 60% degraded Leaf pack cost? $1500? $2000? A current Tesla power wall is 7k just for the battery and gets you 13.5 kWh right?

So a pack with 10 kWh or so for $1500 is VERY attractive *IF* you can get it to work for your home.

SageBrush
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Re: SOLD. 2011 Leaf SL for sale by original owner $3500

Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:03 pm

danrjones wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:37 pm

Even a badly degraded 2011 Leaf pack, lets say at 60%, so around 15 kWh of useable storage left... and then knock that down to 10 kWh with buffers to help keep it running. What does a 60% degraded Leaf pack cost? $1500? $2000? A current Tesla power wall is 7k just for the battery and gets you 13.5 kWh right?

So a pack with 10 kWh or so for $1500 is VERY attractive *IF* you can get it to work for your home.
I come to a different conclusion

After tax credit, the Tesla PW is ~ $400 a kWh
The LEAF pack is ~ $200 a kWh, not including the extra parts and EE

danrjones
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Re: SOLD. 2011 Leaf SL for sale by original owner $3500

Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:16 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:03 pm
danrjones wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:37 pm

Even a badly degraded 2011 Leaf pack, lets say at 60%, so around 15 kWh of useable storage left... and then knock that down to 10 kWh with buffers to help keep it running. What does a 60% degraded Leaf pack cost? $1500? $2000? A current Tesla power wall is 7k just for the battery and gets you 13.5 kWh right?

So a pack with 10 kWh or so for $1500 is VERY attractive *IF* you can get it to work for your home.
I come to a different conclusion

After tax credit, the Tesla PW is ~ $400 a kWh
The LEAF pack is ~ $200 a kWh, not including the extra parts and EE
Doesn't Tesla charge several thousand for install above the 7k for the Powerwall?

Also, I'm looking for a DIY solution. Does Tesla let you self install to save money?

SageBrush
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Re: SOLD. 2011 Leaf SL for sale by original owner $3500

Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:26 pm

danrjones wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:16 pm
Also, I'm looking for a DIY solution.
Get cracking on building an inverter, and coding a BMS. That should get you halfway

danrjones
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Re: SOLD. 2011 Leaf SL for sale by original owner $3500

Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:43 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:26 pm
danrjones wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:16 pm
Also, I'm looking for a DIY solution.
Get cracking on building an inverter, and coding a BMS. That should get you halfway
I agree, someone should.
It certainly is an opportunity to both use all these old packs and create a new product / make money.

After all, I do recall hearing a lot of promises these packs wouldn't just be thrown away.

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