I somehow messed up my December 27, 2020 post so here is the file showing my full discharge/charge test results through November 7, 2020. If I can find the rest of the text, I will edit again to restore the post.
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The 62kWh Battery Topic
- Thread starter Daklein
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DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
Thats great. Glad the battery is doing well.
What does the board think about the raft of 200-250ish mile EVs now in market with 65-75 kWh batteries? (Mach-E, ID4, Volvo Recharge, Etc..) Do you think it's enough for the US market. I know now that we have moved to 200ish mile evs, we don't talk about range anymore in the household, and conversation has now moved to seating, comfort, etc.. in terms of our next EV. ...but we are not a typical household having an ev for the last 8 years.
Is 300 still the needed bar, or is 200 enough? I am of the mind that 200ish might be enough.
What does the board think about the raft of 200-250ish mile EVs now in market with 65-75 kWh batteries? (Mach-E, ID4, Volvo Recharge, Etc..) Do you think it's enough for the US market. I know now that we have moved to 200ish mile evs, we don't talk about range anymore in the household, and conversation has now moved to seating, comfort, etc.. in terms of our next EV. ...but we are not a typical household having an ev for the last 8 years.
Is 300 still the needed bar, or is 200 enough? I am of the mind that 200ish might be enough.
user 24513
Well-known member
DougWantsALeaf said:Thats great. Glad the battery is doing well.
What does the board think about the raft of 200-250ish mile EVs now in market with 65-75 kWh batteries? (Mach-E, ID4, Volvo Recharge, Etc..) Do you think it's enough for the US market. I know now that we have moved to 200ish mile evs, we don't talk about range anymore in the household, and conversation has now moved to seating, comfort, etc.. in terms of our next EV. ...but we are not a typical household having an ev for the last 8 years.
Is 300 still the needed bar, or is 200 enough? I am of the mind that 200ish might be enough.
I am in agreement that 200ish is plenty for MOST of what we will do- however, this is after 9 months of lockdown and after having moved up to a Plus from a 2015 which definitely was inadequate..... Hard to remember what it felt like to jump in a cfar a drive for 6 hours with one quick stop for gas.....
I think 200ish is adequate to entice households with more than one vehicle to use an EV for one of their vehicles. For households to be comfortable with an EV as an only vehicle (or multiple vehicles all EV), then it probably takes 300 miles or more range (even though they probably don't actually need it). Personally, I would not want to depend upon the SL Plus as my only vehicle because I need something to tow trailers and handle off-road conditions. I also like my motorcycles for recreational riding and long trips.
GRA
Well-known member
In the Castrol survey I've linked elsewhere, on what it would take for BEVs to be mainstream, for the U. S. the average range requirement was 517 km (321 mi.), and you can bet that's assuming ICE-like infrastructure and capabilities, i.e. no reductions for degradation, heat use, charging to 80 rather than 100%, charging stations ubiquitous and fast, etc.
GRA
Well-known member
WetEV said:Studies asking ICE drivers what they need from an EV is like asking 9 year old boys about sex.GRA said:In the Castrol survey I've linked elsewhere, on what it would take for BEVs to be mainstream, for the U. S. the average range requirement was 517 km (321 mi.), and you can bet that's assuming ICE-like infrastructure and capabilities, i.e. no reductions for degradation, heat use, charging to 80 rather than 100%, charging stations ubiquitous and fast, etc.
There might be some real information in some of the answers.
Don't count on much.
Even then, the world is changing. With more people working from home, driving patterns are going to change. I can't even guess if that helps or hurts EV adoption long term.
Asking ICE drivers what it would take for them to switch is exactly who needs to be asked, as early adopters, who have different priorities (and higher incomes that allow them to indulge those priorities), will always be a minority. They want a BEV to give the same operational capabilities (or nearly so) as their ICEs provide, or they see no reason to switch. They don't care about ideology, only capability at an affordable price.
In addition to less range, they are willing to accept longer "refueling" times, an average of 31 minutes worldwide (U.S. 30) but that's charging to 100%, not 80%.
WetEV
Well-known member
GRA said:Asking ICE drivers what it would take for them to switch is exactly who needs to be asked, as early adopters, who have different priorities (and higher incomes that allow them to indulge those priorities), will always be a minority. They want a BEV to give the same operational capabilities (or nearly so) as their ICEs provide, or they see no reason to switch. They don't care about ideology, only capability at an affordable price.WetEV said:Studies asking ICE drivers what they need from an EV is like asking 9 year old boys about sex.
There might be some real information in some of the answers.
Don't count on much.
In addition to less range, they are willing to accept longer "refueling" times, an average of 31 minutes worldwide (U.S. 30) but that's charging to 100%, not 80%.
People that don't know can't give an answer that is meaningful.
BEVs have advantages over their ICEs that they really can't know anything about. You are asking them to compare a sketch of a BEV with all they know about ICE cars.
Now, there might be some real information in some of the answers. But you can't take the whole answer as factual, as it isn't.
Two decades from now, the once 9 year old boys might know more about sex. And the ICE drivers are likely to be driving BEVs.
Still, answers are likely to not be completely factual. Even then.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
WetEV said:GRA said:Asking ICE drivers what it would take for them to switch is exactly who needs to be asked, as early adopters, who have different priorities (and higher incomes that allow them to indulge those priorities), will always be a minority. They want a BEV to give the same operational capabilities (or nearly so) as their ICEs provide, or they see no reason to switch. They don't care about ideology, only capability at an affordable price.WetEV said:Studies asking ICE drivers what they need from an EV is like asking 9 year old boys about sex.
There might be some real information in some of the answers.
Don't count on much.
In addition to less range, they are willing to accept longer "refueling" times, an average of 31 minutes worldwide (U.S. 30) but that's charging to 100%, not 80%.
People that don't know can't give an answer that is meaningful.
BEVs have advantages over their ICEs that they really can't know anything about. You are asking them to compare a sketch of a BEV with all they know about ICE cars.
Now, there might be some real information in some of the answers. But you can't take the whole answer as factual, as it isn't.
Two decades from now, the once 9 year old boys might know more about sex. And the ICE drivers are likely to be driving BEVs.
Still, answers are likely to not be completely factual. Even then.
Have to agree at least partially. To move from the familiar to the unfamiliar, the standards have to be near perfect; which isn't possible. But that is how we roll. We'd rather suffer the pain we know than learn a new way. It is by word of mouth from friends and family that eventually "talk us off the ledge" which brings our requirements to reasonable levels.
A more telling poll is how many try EVs and then go back to gassers. Remove the ones relocating and ones changing jobs and the rate drops to near zero.
So no, the polls won't ever be as effective as your neighbor or your sibling.
A more telling poll is how many try EVs and then go back to gassers. Remove the ones relocating and ones changing jobs and the rate drops to near zero.
I think there are a significant number of people who either get lied to about range, or who drive 80MPH and then give up the EV because it won't go far enough at that speed.
salyavin
Well-known member
Funny thing is you can usually beat the range if you use a lot of hypermiling techniques for example pulse and glide (when gliding do not let the regen engage) so as you say driving style and speed are all very important. It also affects gas cars we just tend to notice it less as we have less range anxiety and more gas stations than chargers.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
LeftieBiker said:A more telling poll is how many try EVs and then go back to gassers. Remove the ones relocating and ones changing jobs and the rate drops to near zero.
I think there are a significant number of people who either get lied to about range, or who drive 80MPH and then give up the EV because it won't go far enough at that speed.
Yep. Unrealistic expectation combined with less than accommodating instrumentation. I laugh when I see posts bragging about "living on the edge" from people getting home with 2% SOC thinking they barely made it. :lol:
DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
Agreed. I think the single most important tip when driving to the extent of your range is to drive by efficiency number, which will almost always keep you out of trouble with range anxiety. It does require some basic math. So if you have 55kWh available and need to go 200 miles, you want efficiency above 3.7 to be safe. That's pretty easy if you keep it under 70, but more than many want to think about.
I consider it part of the sport of driving an ev.
My S+ is down to 4.4 miles/kWh this month with temps below freezing and highway driving. Even without heat, i have even seen some upper 3s after some faster highway runs.
I did run heat once, and was a little shocked at the power draw vs. the heat pump in The other Leaf.
I consider it part of the sport of driving an ev.
My S+ is down to 4.4 miles/kWh this month with temps below freezing and highway driving. Even without heat, i have even seen some upper 3s after some faster highway runs.
I did run heat once, and was a little shocked at the power draw vs. the heat pump in The other Leaf.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
DougWantsALeaf said:Agreed. I think the single most important tip when driving to the extent of your range is to drive by efficiency number, which will almost always keep you out of trouble with range anxiety. It does require some basic math. So if you have 55kWh available and need to go 200 miles, you want efficiency above 3.7 to be safe. That's pretty easy if you keep it under 70, but more than many want to think about.
I consider it part of the sport of driving an ev.
My S+ is down to 4.4 miles/kWh this month with temps below freezing and highway driving. Even without heat, i have even seen some upper 3s after some faster highway runs.
I did run heat once, and was a little shocked at the power draw vs. the heat pump in The other Leaf.
I haven't run the numbers yet but I am likely in the 3.6 mile/kwh range. For some reason, I have been doing the dash to work so its been 75 as much as possible with heat on at least half the time.
DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
Interesting note to this video. The SL Plus from Japan (imported to Australia) came with 16" wheels. I wish that was an option here.
https://youtu.be/h6kGlCl1ZTc
https://youtu.be/h6kGlCl1ZTc
DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
Ok, curiosity here.
12/5/2020 97.96 172.8 104.75 3072
12/12/2020 97.95 172.78 104.56 3106
12/22/2020 97.1 171.28 104.22 3183
12/24/2020 96.4 170.05 104.05 3220
12/31/2020 95.4 168.29 104.09 3353
I had thought my adjustment cycle was over well before the 24th, but it continued this week. Sadly 2.5% vanished. And I was so optimistic when the first adjustment was up.
(Date, SoH, AHr, Hx, mileage)
12/5/2020 97.96 172.8 104.75 3072
12/12/2020 97.95 172.78 104.56 3106
12/22/2020 97.1 171.28 104.22 3183
12/24/2020 96.4 170.05 104.05 3220
12/31/2020 95.4 168.29 104.09 3353
I had thought my adjustment cycle was over well before the 24th, but it continued this week. Sadly 2.5% vanished. And I was so optimistic when the first adjustment was up.
(Date, SoH, AHr, Hx, mileage)
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
DougWantsALeaf said:Ok, curiosity here.
12/5/2020 97.96 172.8 104.75 3072
12/12/2020 97.95 172.78 104.56 3106
12/22/2020 97.1 171.28 104.22 3183
12/24/2020 96.4 170.05 104.05 3220
12/31/2020 95.4 168.29 104.09 3353
I had thought my adjustment cycle was over well before the 24th, but it continued this week. Sadly 2.5% vanished. And I was so optimistic when the first adjustment was up.
(Date, SoH, AHr, Hx, mileage)
Sucks but normal. I had an adjustment last nearly 2 weeks and it was also my biggest one as well. As far as the wheel size comment; What is stopping you? (other than the cost)
DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
When the SV+ is up for new tires, I think I will go down rim size.
Hey, one thought appeared to me looking at the data. Any chance battery temp at time of adjustment has an impact? My summer adjustments have been more favorable than the winter adjustments.
Hey, one thought appeared to me looking at the data. Any chance battery temp at time of adjustment has an impact? My summer adjustments have been more favorable than the winter adjustments.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
DougWantsALeaf said:When the SV+ is up for new tires, I think I will go down rim size.
Definitely want good before and after records on efficiency.
DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
Hey, one thought appeared to me looking at the data. Any chance battery temp at time of adjustment has an impact? My summer adjustments have been more favorable than the winter adjustments.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
DougWantsALeaf said:Hey, one thought appeared to me looking at the data. Any chance battery temp at time of adjustment has an impact? My summer adjustments have been more favorable than the winter adjustments.
umm, hmm?? that wouldn't make any sense. Batteries don't just "adjust" suddenly. Its the BMS doing the adjusting and one would have to think the adjustment is a report card of sorts (along with normal degradation) of the previous 3 months? At least that would somewhat explain the increased capacity which still isn't realistically possible.
FYI; my positive adjustment was in July.
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