2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

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cwerdna said:
Here's another 4 bar loser.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan.leaf.owners.group/permalink/4643823512355120 - initials GT:
"2016 30kwh. Dealer informed me today it was approved for the 40kwh. Now waiting for them to ship the battery and for the warranty swap. It may be a couple weeks..."

Don't know where they're located. If someone has time, they're more than welcome to post updates to my last list. If not, I should be able to find some time over Thanksgiving or in December.

Profile says S. Cal
 
fergy126 said:
Can anyone tell me how far off I am from losing my 4th bar?

2017 Leaf S, Augusta, GA.

Current stats via LeafSpy: 80882 miles, 51.598AHr, SOH 64.92% been down to three bars for about 5-6 months, firmware update completed.

Lost my 4th bar this morning.

2017 Leaf S, Augusta, GA.

Current stats via LeafSpy: 83077 miles, 51.10AHr, SOH 64.29%, firmware update completed.

I need to start putting my warranty plan together. My ride to work is 45 miles and I have been making it with about 3-4 miles from VLBW. That's driving with 40psi tires, no heat (34 degF this morning) and staying under 64mph on the highway. I want to exhaust as much of my current battery before utilizing the warranty.

I'm open to advice and recommendations.
 
If you are saying that you want to stay with the degraded battery for a while longer, try 60MPH indicated, and you can maybe use a little heat: 68F or lower, blower on Low, partial recirculation engaged. If necessary, run the heat for just the first or last part of the commute, whichever does more good.
 
fergy126 said:
fergy126 said:
Can anyone tell me how far off I am from losing my 4th bar?

2017 Leaf S, Augusta, GA.

Current stats via LeafSpy: 80882 miles, 51.598AHr, SOH 64.92% been down to three bars for about 5-6 months, firmware update completed.

Lost my 4th bar this morning.

2017 Leaf S, Augusta, GA.

Current stats via LeafSpy: 83077 miles, 51.10AHr, SOH 64.29%, firmware update completed.

I need to start putting my warranty plan together. My ride to work is 45 miles and I have been making it with about 3-4 miles from VLBW. That's driving with 40psi tires, no heat (34 degF this morning) and staying under 64mph on the highway. I want to exhaust as much of my current battery before utilizing the warranty.

I'm open to advice and recommendations.

But why?

If you're trying to extend the battery warranty coverage, it wouldn't matter, since the warranty is for 100k miles from when you first got the car, not for the battery (the replacement batteries no longer carry an additional 100k warranty on them). The replacement battery will probably carry the same coverage as repair items (usually 1-year from time of install).

If you're trying to extend the miles that your car can be used for, it'll be much easier living with a 4-lost bar 40kwh pack (remaining range of ~90 miles - 60% of 150miles) than a 4-lost bar 30kwh pack (remaining range of ~60 miles - 60% of 107 miles). With the larger pack, you should be able to drive for much longer before its range becomes unusable (assuming 60 miles is the limit, that should be around 40% or 7-bars lost).

If you're worried about rapidgate, at the larger pack size, you'd only need 1 chademo charge for every 2 chademo charges of the smaller pack.

There doesn't seem to be a good reason for living with a degraded pack for longer than you need to? Especially now that we're in the winter months and you're sacrificing the heater for it.
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
fergy126 said:
fergy126 said:
Can anyone tell me how far off I am from losing my 4th bar?

2017 Leaf S, Augusta, GA.

Current stats via LeafSpy: 80882 miles, 51.598AHr, SOH 64.92% been down to three bars for about 5-6 months, firmware update completed.

Lost my 4th bar this morning.

2017 Leaf S, Augusta, GA.

Current stats via LeafSpy: 83077 miles, 51.10AHr, SOH 64.29%, firmware update completed.

I need to start putting my warranty plan together. My ride to work is 45 miles and I have been making it with about 3-4 miles from VLBW. That's driving with 40psi tires, no heat (34 degF this morning) and staying under 64mph on the highway. I want to exhaust as much of my current battery before utilizing the warranty.

I'm open to advice and recommendations.

But why?

If you're trying to extend the battery warranty coverage, it wouldn't matter, since the warranty is for 100k miles from when you first got the car, not for the battery (the replacement batteries no longer carry an additional 100k warranty on them). The replacement battery will probably carry the same coverage as repair items (usually 1-year from time of install).

If you're trying to extend the miles that your car can be used for, it'll be much easier living with a 4-lost bar 40kwh pack (remaining range of ~90 miles - 60% of 150miles) than a 4-lost bar 30kwh pack (remaining range of ~60 miles - 60% of 107 miles). With the larger pack, you should be able to drive for much longer before its range becomes unusable (assuming 60 miles is the limit, that should be around 40% or 7-bars lost).

If you're worried about rapidgate, at the larger pack size, you'd only need 1 chademo charge for every 2 chademo charges of the smaller pack.

There doesn't seem to be a good reason for living with a degraded pack for longer than you need to? Especially now that we're in the winter months and you're sacrificing the heater for it.

I'm looking at it from the perspective of life beyond 100k miles. I'm fairly confident Nissan will approve my warranty claim for a replacement pack and I know that the replacement 40Kwh pack won't be covered beyond 100k miles and I know I have to drive to work ~500 miles a week. Why not get as much as I can out of my current 30kwh pack before submitting the claim so that when the 40Kwh pack is installed I "didn't leave any Ah on the table" with the old pack.

You've absolutely right though winter is coming and the novelty of driving to work with an electric blanket and gloves may wear off sooner than i think.
 
fergy126 said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
fergy126 said:
Lost my 4th bar this morning.

2017 Leaf S, Augusta, GA.

Current stats via LeafSpy: 83077 miles, 51.10AHr, SOH 64.29%, firmware update completed.

I need to start putting my warranty plan together. My ride to work is 45 miles and I have been making it with about 3-4 miles from VLBW. That's driving with 40psi tires, no heat (34 degF this morning) and staying under 64mph on the highway. I want to exhaust as much of my current battery before utilizing the warranty.

I'm open to advice and recommendations.

But why?

If you're trying to extend the battery warranty coverage, it wouldn't matter, since the warranty is for 100k miles from when you first got the car, not for the battery (the replacement batteries no longer carry an additional 100k warranty on them). The replacement battery will probably carry the same coverage as repair items (usually 1-year from time of install).

If you're trying to extend the miles that your car can be used for, it'll be much easier living with a 4-lost bar 40kwh pack (remaining range of ~90 miles - 60% of 150miles) than a 4-lost bar 30kwh pack (remaining range of ~60 miles - 60% of 107 miles). With the larger pack, you should be able to drive for much longer before its range becomes unusable (assuming 60 miles is the limit, that should be around 40% or 7-bars lost).

If you're worried about rapidgate, at the larger pack size, you'd only need 1 chademo charge for every 2 chademo charges of the smaller pack.

There doesn't seem to be a good reason for living with a degraded pack for longer than you need to? Especially now that we're in the winter months and you're sacrificing the heater for it.

I'm looking at it from the perspective of life beyond 100k miles. I'm fairly confident Nissan will approve my warranty claim for a replacement pack and I know that the replacement 40Kwh pack won't be covered beyond 100k miles and I know I have to drive to work ~500 miles a week. Why not get as much as I can out of my current 30kwh pack before submitting the claim so that when the 40Kwh pack is installed I "didn't leave any Ah on the table" with the old pack.

You've absolutely right though winter is coming and the novelty of driving to work with an electric blanket and gloves may wear off sooner than i think.

And I thought that was what you were trying to achieve, so I covered that in the first scenario. Whether you try to live with 60-miles of range with a degraded 30kwh pack, or a degraded 40kwh pack, it would take the same amount of effort. The difference is that with the 40kwh pack, that point in the pack is at around a 7-bar loss (40% capacity remaining), a point that should be WAY out into the future (possibly more than 150k miles later - ~230k miles on your odometer). There would likely be more used EV options out there by that time (or even a replacement pack like how some 2011 leaf owners are upgrading their packs on their own), so you might not even need to endure it at all.

Instead, make sure you practice good care of the new pack. My cousin, who lives in a climate that's similar to Atlanta, has a 40kwh leaf, and he has yet to lose 15% of range after 3 years and 45k miles, this is where I got that 150k guesstimate from.
 
fergy126 said:
fergy126 said:
Can anyone tell me how far off I am from losing my 4th bar?

2017 Leaf S, Augusta, GA.

Current stats via LeafSpy: 80882 miles, 51.598AHr, SOH 64.92% been down to three bars for about 5-6 months, firmware update completed.

Lost my 4th bar this morning.

2017 Leaf S, Augusta, GA.

Current stats via LeafSpy: 83077 miles, 51.10AHr, SOH 64.29%, firmware update completed.

I need to start putting my warranty plan together. My ride to work is 45 miles and I have been making it with about 3-4 miles from VLBW. That's driving with 40psi tires, no heat (34 degF this morning) and staying under 64mph on the highway. I want to exhaust as much of my current battery before utilizing the warranty.

I'm open to advice and recommendations.

I think waiting is a VERY bad idea. Get the ball rolling now. They will tell you 4-8 weeks to get a pack but that rarely happens. Under two weeks seems to be the norm but if packs are shipped in cycles, you want to be in line ASAP. A 40 kwh upgrade is life changing. Yeah, laugh...its just a car, right?

Been there, done that and trust me...its ....well you will know soon enough.
 
fergy126 said:
I'm looking at it from the perspective of life beyond 100k miles. I'm fairly confident Nissan will approve my warranty claim for a replacement pack and I know that the replacement 40Kwh pack won't be covered beyond 100k miles and I know I have to drive to work ~500 miles a week. Why not get as much as I can out of my current 30kwh pack before submitting the claim so that when the 40Kwh pack is installed I "didn't leave any Ah on the table" with the old pack.
Lot's of reasons, but they come down to the old saying that "a bird in the hand is easily worth 1.1 birds in the bush."

TODAY, Nissan is offering a 40 kWh replacement pack
The future is uncertain:
Nissan may decide to no longer offer 40 kWh replacement packs
Nissan may go BK and your warranty may not be honored at all
Nissan may decide to honor your warranty with a crappy refurb pack
Nissan may decide to honor your warranty with a crappy 40 kWh pack (if they do not already.)
You may decide to sell your car, and your sacrifice today was wasted
Your car may develop repair issues you decide are not worth paying for, and your sacrifice today was wasted
Your car may be involved in an accident and then not only will the replacement value be less, your sacrifice today was wasted

I presume there are others; these are just off the top of my head
 
SageBrush said:
fergy126 said:
I'm looking at it from the perspective of life beyond 100k miles. I'm fairly confident Nissan will approve my warranty claim for a replacement pack and I know that the replacement 40Kwh pack won't be covered beyond 100k miles and I know I have to drive to work ~500 miles a week. Why not get as much as I can out of my current 30kwh pack before submitting the claim so that when the 40Kwh pack is installed I "didn't leave any Ah on the table" with the old pack.
Lot's of reasons, but they come down to the old saying that "a bird in the hand is easily worth 1.1 birds in the bush."

TODAY, Nissan is offering a 40 kWh replacement pack
The future is uncertain:
Nissan may decide to no longer offer 40 kWh replacement packs
Nissan may go BK and your warranty may not be honored at all
Nissan may decide to honor your warranty with a crappy refurb pack
Nissan may decide to honor your warranty with a crappy 40 kWh pack (if they do not already.)
You may decide to sell your car, and your sacrifice today was wasted
Your car may develop repair issues you decide are not worth paying for, and your sacrifice today was wasted
Your car may be involved in an accident and then not only will the replacement value be less, your sacrifice today was wasted

I presume there are others; these are just off the top of my head

Your 2nd and last point are on point.

I dropped our Leaf off 30 Dec 2019 and picked it up on 12 Feb 2020. Thankfully a National Leaf Rep saved the day. In January Carlos gave a press conference stating Nissan would be in bankruptcy in 2022 and that was pre Pandemic. Before that I didn't know only half of USA Nissan dealerships were profitable.

7 Nov 2020 a teenager ran a red light and totally our 2016 Leaf SL. Day before yesterday my son and I made space in one bay of our shop and stripped off the front cap and damaged parts in front the motor and forward. Some how the front camera still worked but the Toyota van was hit in the right rear door and landed on its roof after shearing the first 18 inches of the nose of our Leaf. It missed our front wheels by 6 inches just missing the frame and motor. A picture of it is in the current T bone accident thread. Thankfully all 5 doors open and close well and the car is still drivable. When our check arrives we will find a donor Leaf.

Yes if one is due a new 40 kWh battery get it YESTERDAY.
 
Dec 1 update. 285 GID's, SOH=78.76%, Hx=52.48%. 83654 total miles, 38725 miles on new battery, 145 L3 total, 31 on new battery, 1654 l2 total, 780 on new battery. I'm driving a lot less now so wear and tear on the battery is less but it's still losing power at about the same rate per month as before. I lost 5 GID's last month even with less driving. It's possible that I will hit 4 bars down before the100K warranty limit. If it continues at the same rate, I'll hit 8 bars at around 94,000 miles. That would give about 50,000 miles on the second battery. If I got a third battery before the warranty expires and it was a 40KWH unit, I might keep the Leaf for a couple more years. Otherwise I'll probably trade it in. It may depend on whether or not the new administration puts new tax credits in place for USA built EV's. It may be a matter of just getting a longer range EV. I don't notice it so much on a daily basis but we were evacuated during the last fire for a week and the problem with daily charging was painfully evident. Also as I lose range on the Leaf, keeping it charged in case I have to make an unexpected trip becomes a requirement. Although the 40KWH would help a lot, It's not enough to fully solve the problem and I still worry about the degradation of the battery over time.
 
johnlocke said:
Although the 40KWH would help a lot, It's not enough to fully solve the problem and I still worry about the degradation of the battery over time.

Battery degradation is a fact of life. Would 60 kWh be enough to solve the problem? Or 90 kWh? Or 150 kWh?
 
johnlocke said:
Dec 1 update. 285 GID's, SOH=78.76%, Hx=52.48%. 83654 total miles, 38725 miles on new battery, 145 L3 total, 31 on new battery, 1654 l2 total, 780 on new battery. I'm driving a lot less now so wear and tear on the battery is less but it's still losing power at about the same rate per month as before. I lost 5 GID's last month even with less driving. It's possible that I will hit 4 bars down before the100K warranty limit. If it continues at the same rate, I'll hit 8 bars at around 94,000 miles. That would give about 50,000 miles on the second battery. If I got a third battery before the warranty expires and it was a 40KWH unit, I might keep the Leaf for a couple more years. Otherwise I'll probably trade it in. It may depend on whether or not the new administration puts new tax credits in place for USA built EV's. It may be a matter of just getting a longer range EV. I don't notice it so much on a daily basis but we were evacuated during the last fire for a week and the problem with daily charging was painfully evident. Also as I lose range on the Leaf, keeping it charged in case I have to make an unexpected trip becomes a requirement. Although the 40KWH would help a lot, It's not enough to fully solve the problem and I still worry about the degradation of the battery over time.

Thanks for the update. My 40 kWh was about losing about 0.01% of SOH daily. About 4 months ago I started to charging to 100% after 30-60 miles trying to make sure battery temperature was no more than 5-10 degrees over evening temperature. If I got home at 6pm I would plug it in like 11pm so it would charge and chill before the next morning. SOH started dropping about 0.01 every 3 days and the weather was cooling down some.

It got totalled 7 Nov 2020 with SOH at 96.07 and SOC at 89% . 3 weeks later SOH was down to 96.06 and SOC was still at 89%. We stripped off the front cap and all parts in front of motor and got the front end off of concrete so we could test D and R. It was smooth up to near 20 MPH then would start making some noise. The son expected traction control was the noise source so we took it out for 2 mile test drive. It drove out fine but I never got it over 68 MPH.
 
WetEV said:
johnlocke said:
Although the 40KWH would help a lot, It's not enough to fully solve the problem and I still worry about the degradation of the battery over time.

Battery degradation is a fact of life. Would 60 kWh be enough to solve the problem? Or 90 kWh? Or 150 kWh?
You're right. Given the rate of degradation for any Nissan battery, size doesn't ultimately matter. Bad design trumps everything. Even a 60 KWH battery won't give me the 150K mile lifespan I'd expect from a new battery. I just live in a climate that requires active cooling. Leaf doesn't have that. If the current battery does fail before the end of warranty, a new 40KWH battery is likely to last 75K mi. A 60 KWH battery would be good for over 100K mi. but not a lot more.
 
^^^
I was going to point you to a used Bolt but '17 to '19's are still on stop sale AFAIK. https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2017/CHEVROLET/BOLT/4%252520DR/FWD#recalls still has 14 associated documents, several of which mention the stop sale.

Maybe you an jump on one for cheap once that's lifted. Thermal management when plugged in will keep Bolt battery down to 27 C (80.6F) per https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/battery-conditioning.33279/#post-512173.

Every now and then, I hear of really cheap '20 Bolts available new (no stop sale and no recall on those) and sometimes really cheap lease deals. Not sure if they're too good to be true. Besides that, we're getting more and more EVs competition over time.

OT: https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan.leaf.owners.group/permalink/4752234668180670/ is someone else in AZ (Prescott) with in initials CD with a '17 Leaf who was given approval for a HV battery replacement after being down to 8 bars.
 
fergy126 said:
Thank you all for your input, I have scheduled my Warranty appointment for this weekend.

Warranty replacement was approved, waiting on the battery to arrive at the dealership. I was told it would arrive in the middle of next week.
 
fergy126 said:
fergy126 said:
Thank you all for your input, I have scheduled my Warranty appointment for this weekend.

Warranty replacement was approved, waiting on the battery to arrive at the dealership. I was told it would arrive in the middle of next week.

Received a call today that "batteries are on back-order" and would receive a shipment update around the 30th of December. The wait continues.

Meanwhile with the cold temps (35-45 degF) have made completing my commute (45 mi) a struggle, I think I will have to drive my ICE vehicle until the replacement is completed.
 
FYI: My 2017 Leaf lost her 3rd bar today (Dec 16 2020). About 19k total miles (I dont drive a ton, since work is close to home). She lost her second bar on Jan 13 of this year, so a degradation rate of nearly one bar per year. I am guessing that I might be calling in that warranty as early as about a year from now.

Every year's Battery report has been done (they all came back great), and the firmware was updated way back when that came out.
 
outerspaceguy, what confirmation of how a hot climate affects the battery. I'm still at 12 bars (88% SOH) on my 2017, with about 29K miles driven (and the previously owner almost exclusively rapid charged it).

Sounds like you'll be getting to battery replacement pretty quickly.
 
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