DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
DougWantsALeaf said:
Or a significant price cut.
The 62kWh Battery Topic
- Thread starter Daklein
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Or a significant price cut.
They don't sell Bolts.
DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
I have seen a new set of 2019 Leaf Plus unit appear at one of the local dealers for 28-29K, which is crazy cheap when you throw in the $7,500. I don't know if these were test drivers or fleet cars, as I don't know where they would have come from.
Do we think that Nissan or GM are making any money on these cars at these levels?
Thermal mgmt is nice, but if you rarely do more than 400-500 miles in a day (at least in Chicago) it kind of a non-issue. We'll see what our Plus batteries look like in a few years, though I don't think either of our Leaf's ever even hit 1 bar above the midway point this year. (admittedly it was a mild summer). The 200+ mile (on a charge) trips in the S+ don't add more than a few degrees F to the battery after hours of driving. The SV+ does heat a bit faster at 70 as its pulling more juice.
I may try a 280 mile at 55 mph highway trip here in a couple weeks, to see if the efficiency is as good as the GOM wants me to believe. Hopefully weather will stay nice.
Do we think that Nissan or GM are making any money on these cars at these levels?
Thermal mgmt is nice, but if you rarely do more than 400-500 miles in a day (at least in Chicago) it kind of a non-issue. We'll see what our Plus batteries look like in a few years, though I don't think either of our Leaf's ever even hit 1 bar above the midway point this year. (admittedly it was a mild summer). The 200+ mile (on a charge) trips in the S+ don't add more than a few degrees F to the battery after hours of driving. The SV+ does heat a bit faster at 70 as its pulling more juice.
I may try a 280 mile at 55 mph highway trip here in a couple weeks, to see if the efficiency is as good as the GOM wants me to believe. Hopefully weather will stay nice.
We get that you don't understand why everyone doesn't share your personal preferences. What we don't get is why you refuse to just accept it without that understanding. For a lot of older, less than perfectly healthy people living in the Snow Belt, the Leaf is a better choice than the Model 3. It doesn't have to be that way, but Musk's tunnel vision isn't going to give us a truly comfortable, affordable Tesla for a long time, I suspect.
I could not care less about the plural you, I'm pointing out that Nissan is going to struggle to sell even compliance numbers of passively cooled battery, CHAdeMO LEAFs at prices higher than a Bolt.
Tangentially, I dragged my wife to a Chevy dealership last week to check out a Bolt. I didn't say a word about varying opinions on the ergonomics. She was upbeat until she sat in the car and then balked. In her case though, the seat was fine. She was afraid to test drive the car because she could not see the hood. The car really does give off a mini-van vibe in the inside even though it is a small, narrow car. I asked the salesman how other drivers perform on the test drive who also lack experience with 'hoodless' cars. He mentioned that some get way too close to the car in front of them, and some hit the curb turning corners. That was not what my wife wanted to hear.
Yesterday was Tesla battery day. I was (and still am) ecstatic over the leap in production plans while the message that my wife latched on to was that a Tesla car in the price range she is comfortable paying may be available in 3 - 4 years and our LEAF could last until then ...
Funny how these things go.
Tangentially, I dragged my wife to a Chevy dealership last week to check out a Bolt. I didn't say a word about varying opinions on the ergonomics. She was upbeat until she sat in the car and then balked. In her case though, the seat was fine. She was afraid to test drive the car because she could not see the hood. The car really does give off a mini-van vibe in the inside even though it is a small, narrow car. I asked the salesman how other drivers perform on the test drive who also lack experience with 'hoodless' cars. He mentioned that some get way too close to the car in front of them, and some hit the curb turning corners. That was not what my wife wanted to hear.
Yesterday was Tesla battery day. I was (and still am) ecstatic over the leap in production plans while the message that my wife latched on to was that a Tesla car in the price range she is comfortable paying may be available in 3 - 4 years and our LEAF could last until then ...
Funny how these things go.
GRA
Well-known member
SageBrush said:
Of course, you should apply an ECF* to that schedule, so probably we won't see cars at that price until somewhere in the Q3 2024 - Q1 2025 timeframe.
*Elon Correction Factor.
Sarcasm aside, I translated the vehicle cost reduction as ~ $10k compared to today.GRA said:
35 becomes 25
45 becomes 35
50 becomes 40
The $25k car would be ~ 3 years from when the Tesla $35k car became available.
She would probably choose a Model Y at today's specs at $40k in 3 years since it is $50k today.
A more optimistic view would be that today's Tesla prices will drop to 25/35 in 3 years
DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
Well, both Bolt and Leaf Plus can be had for 25K and less today.
Teslas battery day innovations were pretty interesting and exciting. It still amazes me how awkward Elon is in front of the camera after all these years. He is still truly an engineer at heart. I hope the other battery manufacturers are as forthcoming about their equivalent innovations. I even thought Nissan's one the other day on carbon fiber molding was pretty cool. (Though flabbergasted that the new Z is not electric).
I find the Y ugly as hell, M3 is way better looking. In line with Leftir, as I get a few more grey hairs, I do appreciate the higher seating of the Leaf. Its about as sporty as I can handle safely.
Very excited to hear reports that the EA chargers are being unthrottled. I will test our local one in a couple days once my soc gets low enough for a good test.
Any rumors on the 21 Leaf? I am guessing only small changes again, but curious if the rumor mill has heard anything. A few more Australians have imported a Leaf Plus from Japan and making youtube videos about it (though its coming there officially next year). Eastern Europe also seems to be getting Leaf Plus as reviews in just about every eastern European language have popped up over last 6 months. Hopefully South America gets them soon too.
Teslas battery day innovations were pretty interesting and exciting. It still amazes me how awkward Elon is in front of the camera after all these years. He is still truly an engineer at heart. I hope the other battery manufacturers are as forthcoming about their equivalent innovations. I even thought Nissan's one the other day on carbon fiber molding was pretty cool. (Though flabbergasted that the new Z is not electric).
I find the Y ugly as hell, M3 is way better looking. In line with Leftir, as I get a few more grey hairs, I do appreciate the higher seating of the Leaf. Its about as sporty as I can handle safely.
Very excited to hear reports that the EA chargers are being unthrottled. I will test our local one in a couple days once my soc gets low enough for a good test.
Any rumors on the 21 Leaf? I am guessing only small changes again, but curious if the rumor mill has heard anything. A few more Australians have imported a Leaf Plus from Japan and making youtube videos about it (though its coming there officially next year). Eastern Europe also seems to be getting Leaf Plus as reviews in just about every eastern European language have popped up over last 6 months. Hopefully South America gets them soon too.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
DougWantsALeaf said:
+1 my LEAF was a smidge under $26K but it involved early termination of my 40 kwh LEAF 15...no 16 months early (my last auto payment to NMAC was returned) and guessing I wasn't above water on the lease.
DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
Here is a local 2019 SV new for under 28k before federal credit. (Unless the dealer discount somehow includes it)
https://www.autobarnnissan.com/inventory/new-2019-nissan-leaf-sv-plus-fwd-4d-hatchback-1n4bz1cp1kc321209/
https://www.autobarnnissan.com/inventory/new-2019-nissan-leaf-sv-plus-fwd-4d-hatchback-1n4bz1cp1kc321209/
If the dealer from whom I leased my Leaf will give my housemate the minimum "Fair condition" trade allowance of $9k for her PIP, then I think she may lease a 2019 SV+ with AW & Tech packages. One of her options is slightly over $100 a month. The other is twice that, but with a $4k check with which she can make 2/3 of all the lease payments. If she passes that up I'm going to evict her.
DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
Many German reviews in the Leaf Plus popping up this week, so I wonder if with the ev rebate there has Nissan trying to push for a little market share.
https://youtu.be/C0IwHYTofNE
https://youtu.be/C0IwHYTofNE
DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
Ok, my S+ is 3 months past purchase (one year almost exactly since build). I need to let it go another couple days, but it looks like my SOH somehow....went up. Admittedly few miles as we are only driving local the last couple weeks... so will update in a couple days. Kind of bizarre.
8/29/2020
SoH = 98.05
1826 miles
9/4/2020
SoH = 98.01
AHr=172.89
Hx=105.37
1,876
9/7/2020
SoH= 97.99%
2,084 miles
9/16/2020
SOH= 97.94
AHR=172.77
HX=106.11
MILES=2,212
9/24/2020
Soh=98.11
Ahr=173.07
Hx=105.98
Temp 74F
2288 miles
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1I-2ZNofj_fsHpR0FEOHvaD6sHlf0zCga/view?usp=drivesdk
8/29/2020
SoH = 98.05
1826 miles
9/4/2020
SoH = 98.01
AHr=172.89
Hx=105.37
1,876
9/7/2020
SoH= 97.99%
2,084 miles
9/16/2020
SOH= 97.94
AHR=172.77
HX=106.11
MILES=2,212
9/24/2020
Soh=98.11
Ahr=173.07
Hx=105.98
Temp 74F
2288 miles
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1I-2ZNofj_fsHpR0FEOHvaD6sHlf0zCga/view?usp=drivesdk
DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
I wanted to update that the SOH stayed the same today, so it looks like the adjustment is complete.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
DougWantsALeaf said:
3rd one to get an "up" update early in the game... My next update in Oct will be my LEAF's first BD... I guess I can dream
DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
This showing the 2019 Leaf as doing quite well in terms of degradation (with Audi and Tesla). Bolt isn't mentioned as its not available in the UK.
Leafs in the UK historically have done very well, given the very mild climate.
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-8772669/We-reveal-quickly-batteries-electric-hybrid-cars-degrade.html
Leafs in the UK historically have done very well, given the very mild climate.
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-8772669/We-reveal-quickly-batteries-electric-hybrid-cars-degrade.html
DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
Another positive review of the Plus
https://youtu.be/XvZznCWVFjk
https://youtu.be/XvZznCWVFjk
DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
Range comparison between Leaf Plus and M3 Midrange on some mild roads. Midrange does a bit better, but not by very much. I don't speak Hungarian. Its a good comparison as both have similar battery sizes.
https://youtu.be/zjEin1Mgnv8
https://youtu.be/zjEin1Mgnv8
