Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

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lebikerboy said:
The cost of Hydrogen production be it from natural gas or electrolysis doesn't look like it will
ever match the cost per mile of BEV's as the price of batteries drops. This doesn't even take into account
the woeful distribution network at present...


As has been pointed out many times, H2 needs to compete costwise with gas/diesel, not batteries.
 
I could easily see many motor coaches going battery electric. Been on plenty of tour buses that go less than 600 miles, put the group in a hotel for 1 or 2 nights before they do it again and repeat for 5 to 21 days. I assume range of the Tesla Semi. This would work fine for many RVs too.

OK Greyhound 24/7 maybe not so much. Would have to stop and charge at many of the stops for I assume a full hour+ meal break.
 
smkettner said:
I could easily see many motor coaches going battery electric. Been on plenty of tour buses that go less than 600 miles, put the group in a hotel for 1 or 2 nights before they do it again and repeat for 5 to 21 days. I assume range of the Tesla Semi. This would work fine for many RVs too.

OK Greyhound 24/7 maybe not so much. Would have to stop and charge at many of the stops for I assume a full hour+ meal break.

Yes. If the range is adequate year-round (at the lowest TCO, i.e no replacing the pack halfway through the vehicle's life) then a BEV is fine. If not, FCEV.
 
GRA said:
lebikerboy said:
The cost of Hydrogen production be it from natural gas or electrolysis doesn't look like it will
ever match the cost per mile of BEV's as the price of batteries drops. This doesn't even take into account
the woeful distribution network at present...


As has been pointed out many times, H2 needs to compete costwise with gas/diesel, not batteries.

As has been pointed out many times, by the time H2 is ready to compete with gas/diesel, battery vehicles will be the majority.
 
WetEV said:
GRA said:
lebikerboy said:
The cost of Hydrogen production be it from natural gas or electrolysis doesn't look like it will
ever match the cost per mile of BEV's as the price of batteries drops. This doesn't even take into account
the woeful distribution network at present...


As has been pointed out many times, H2 needs to compete costwise with gas/diesel, not batteries.

As has been pointed out many times, by the time H2 is ready to compete with gas/diesel, battery vehicles will be the majority.

As has been pointed out many times to you, you're entitled to your opinion. It's likely but we'll see, and it doesn't change the fact that batteries are currently unable to compete in that particular environment. Maybe they will by the time H2 can compete with gas in price (assuming it can), maybe not, but as of now they can't. As truck and bus traffic has an outsized effect on emissions, they have to be cleaned up sooner rather than later:

What portion of statewide emissions are heavy-duty trucks responsible
for?
Heavy-duty trucks emit nearly 33 percent of NOx, 26 percent of PM 2.5, and 8 percent
of GHG based on statewide emission sources. These vehicles represent significant
sources of emissions, and reductions from these sources are necessary to meet
California’s air quality goals.


See CARB's: SUPPORTING INFORMATION FOR TECHNOLOGY ASSESSMENTS:
TRUCK AND BUS SECTOR DESCRIPTION

It's a PDF, and I'm unable to link to it.
 
The ones to watch are Tesla Semi and Nikola. Seems odd that lately Nikola is leaning a bit more onto the battery side of things.
Do we have a count on EV buses vs FC buses? Because my guess is production EV holds 90% or better in this battle.
Time will tell but the writing seems to be on the wall high and clear.
 
smkettner said:
The ones to watch are Tesla Semi and Nikola. Seems odd that lately Nikola is leaning a bit more onto the battery side of things.
Do we have a count on EV buses vs FC buses? Because my guess is production EV holds 90% or better in this battle.
Time will tell but the writing seems to be on the wall high and clear.


BEV buses are currently well ahead, but then you'd expect them to be, as they're about five years ahead in development and deployment. Also, for any bus job that a BEV can do at the lowest TCO, it's the clear choice. This is primarily local buses on shorter routes in regions with milder winter temps at the moment, especially where the fleet is big enough to allow route specialization.

As the requirements for range, heating and route flexibility increase, BEV buses are increasingly unable to meet them, and that's the area where FCEV buses are starting to make inroads. They also don't require construction of expensive charging facilities (either plug, inductive or pantograph) along the route, just fueling facilities at the depot.

This article: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=22441&p=586187&hilit=Ballard+china#p586187

mentions that Ballard stacks are powering 650 buses and 2,200 trucks in China now. The FCEV bus numbers are dwarfed by the number of BEV buses there, which were over four hundred thousand last year. Presumably most if not all of those are urban or short intercity buses rather than coaches.

China's big on LFP chemistry, which although lower in specific energy has good specific power, cycle life, safety and tolerance to being kept at high states of charge. A bus unlike a truck is rarely weight critical, so the low specific energy wouldn't be a big problem there, assuming range is adequate.
 
I occasionally post links to research work just to indicate what's going on in the field. As with all lab results, most never make it to commercialization.

Both GCC:
CSIRO team optimistic about use of nitrogenase in applications such as green ammonia production for carrying H2


https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/07/20200727-rapson.html


In a review paper published in the journal ChemSusChem, researchers from Australia’s CSIRO conclude that the combination of synthetic biology and materials chemistry will provide many viable options to allow the use of nitrogenase for energy applications, such as the production of green ammonia for use as a preferred liquid carrier for hydrogen.

"To export hydrogen from regions with high renewable energy intensity to those lean in renewable energy requires hydrogen to be in a form that is transportable. … in recent years significant advances have been made in both NH3 decomposition catalysts and membranes for hydrogen separation. These advances have provided technologies that are both scalable and economically viable, making ammonia the preferred carrier for the long-distance transport of hydrogen."

—Rapson et al. . . .

"In contrast to the extreme temperature and pressures required by the H-B process, the specialist class of diazotrophic bacteria can reduce dinitrogen at ambient temperatures and pressure. These bacteria use an enzyme known as nitrogenase which converts dinitrogen (N2) and protons (H+) into NH3 and H2. Over the last five years, exciting progress has been made in developing processes whereby nitrogenase can be used to produce ammonia ex vivo which can be powered by renewable energy. This work has reignited interest in using nitrogenase enzymes for the production of ammonia and hydrogen, both of which have energy applications. Here, we outline key biochemical features of nitrogenase and how the recent advances can pave the way for solar powered enzymatic production of NH3 and H2."

—Rapson et al.

The authors noted that genome sequencing and DNA synthesis has grown rapidly over the last 20 years. These advances can be applied to building synthetic nitrogenase componentry.

Further, they note, advances in techniques such as directed evolution could allow the development of nitrogenase enzymes optimized for industrial applications. In addition, materials science can provide avenues to improve the fabrication of the bioelectrode with the potential to improve the stability of the enzyme. . . .


There's a lot more detail I've left out. Since we're talking about ammonia as a convenient way to transport H2, here's a related article:

Hyundai Mipo Dockyard receives green light from Lloyd’s Register for ammonia-fueled ships


https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/07/20200727-hyundai.html

Mipo Dockyard Co., a unit of Korea Shipbuilding, has been given the green light for its ammonia-propelled ships from Lloyd’s Register. Hyundai Mipo Dockyard intends to commercialize the ammonia-propelled ships by 2025 in cooperation with global engine maker MAN Energy Solutions and Lloyd’s Register.

Ammonia has been attracting attention in the shipbuilding industry as an eco-friendly fuel for ships that does not emit carbon dioxide when it is burned.

The International Maritime Organization (IMO) has adopted mandatory steps under which carriers are required to operate a fleet of vessels designed to cut emissions of carbon dioxide by more than 30% by 2025 compared with 2008.

The IMO is also considering further reducing emission levels by 40% by 2030 and 70 percent by 2050.

From 1 Jan. 2020, the IMO lowered the sulfur cap on fuel content from 3.5% to 0.5%. . . .

Korea Shipbuilding and Hyundai Heavy set up a center in March in Ulsan to develop ships powered by both liquefied natural gas (LNG) engines and fuel cells by late 2021.


There are obvious public safety implications in transporting or using large amounts of NH3 in ships, esp. in ports, and I'd think terminals would need similar remoteness and security as with LNG tankers.
 
engadget:
Microsoft used hydrogen fuel cells to power a data center for two days straight
This will help Microsoft's efforts to become carbon neutral by 2030.


https://www-engadget-com.cdn.amppro...ydrogen-fuel-cells-datacenters-223319512.html


Microsoft announced Monday that hydrogen fuel cells powered a row of its datacenter servers for 48 consecutive hours, bringing the company one step closer toward its goal of becoming “carbon negative” by 2030. Microsoft is exploring how the clean technology could be used to fuel more aspects of its operations. . . .

While Microsoft had already eliminated most of its dependence on fossil fuels, it still had a few diesel-powered backup generators at Azure data centers, according to a statement. Diesel is expensive while hydrogen fuel cell costs have plummeted, the statement said, so Microsoft officials decided to test hydrogen fuel cells as a replacement.

The idea to explore hydrogen fuel cells originated in 2018, when researchers at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory in Golden, CO used a proton exchange membrane (PEM) hydrogen fuel cell to power a rack of computers. Mark Monroe, a principal infrastructure engineer on Microsoft’s team for datacenter advanced development, said his team watched a demonstration and was intrigued with the technology.

Monroe’s team developed a 250-kilowatt fuel cell system, enough to power a full row of data center servers, and in September 2019 installed it at an Azure datacenter near Salt Lake City, Utah. In June, the system passed a 48-hour test. The team plans to test a 3-megawatt fuel system next, which matches the size of current diesel-powered backup generators.

It’s possible that an Azure data center could be equipped and run entirely on fuel cells, a hydrogen storage tank and an electrolyzer that converts water molecules into hydrogen and oxygen, Monroe said. These systems could integrate with the electric power grid to provide load balancing services. Further, hydrogen-powered long-haul vehicles could come to datacenters to refuel. . . .
 
MIT Tech Review:
How falling solar costs have renewed clean hydrogen hopes


https://www-technologyreview-com.cd...en-hydrogen-affordable-solar-wind-renewables/


The world is increasingly banking on green hydrogen fuel to fill some of the critical missing pieces in the clean-energy puzzle.

US presidential candidate Joe Biden’s climate plan calls for a research program to produce a clean form of the gas that’s cheap enough to fuel power plants within a decade. Likewise, Japan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, and the European Union have all published hydrogen roadmaps that rely on it to accelerate greenhouse gas reductions in the power, transportation, or industrial sectors. Meanwhile, a growing number of companies around the world are building ever larger green hydrogen plants, or exploring its potential to produce steel, create carbon-neutral aviation fuel, or provide a backup power source for server farms. . . .

The grand vision of the hydrogen economy has been held back by the high costs of creating a clean version, the massive investments into vehicles, machines and pipes that could be required to put it to use, and progress in competing energy storage alternatives like batteries.

So what’s driving the renewed interest?

For one thing, the economics are rapidly changing. We can produce hydrogen directly by simply splitting water, in a process known as electrolysis, but it’s been prohibitively expensive in large part because it requires a lot of electricity. As the price of solar and wind power continues to rapidly decline, however, it will begin to look far more feasible.

At the same time, as more nations do the hard math on how to achieve their aggressive emissions targets in the coming decades, a green form of hydrogen increasingly seems crucial, says Joan Ogden, director of the sustainable transportation energy pathway program at the University of California, Davis. It’s a flexible tool that could help to clean up an array of sectors where we still don’t have affordable and ready solutions, like aviation, shipping, fertilizer production, and long-duration energy storage for the electricity grid.

Falling renewables costs
For now, however, clean hydrogen is far too expensive in most situations. A recent paper found that relying on solar power to run the electrolyzers that split water can run six times higher than the natural gas process, known as steam methane reforming.

There are plenty of energy experts who maintain that the added costs and complexities of producing, storing and using a clean version means it will never really take off beyond marginal use cases.

But the good news is that electricity itself makes up a huge share of the cost—upwards of 60% or more—and, again, the costs of renewables are falling fast. Meanwhile, the costs of electrolyzers themselves are projected to decline steeply as manufacturers scale up production, and various research groups develop advanced versions of the technology.

A Nature Energy paper early last year found that if market trends continue, green hydrogen could be economically competitive on an industrial scale within a decade. Similarly, the International Energy Agency projects that the cost of clean hydrogen will fall 30% by 2030.

Green hydrogen may already be nearly affordable in some places where periods of excess renewable generation drive down the costs of electricity to nearly zero. In a research note last month, Morgan Stanley analysts wrote that locating green hydrogen facilities next to major wind farms in the US Midwest and Texas could make the fuel cost competitive within two years.

A June study from the US National Renewable Energy Laboratory found it may be closer to the middle of the century before hydrogen is the most affordable technology for long duration storage on the grid. But as fluctuating renewables like solar and wind become the dominant source of electricity, utilities will need to store up enough energy to keep the grid reliably working not just for a few hours, but for days and even weeks during certain months when those resources flag.

Hydrogen shines in that scenario compared to other storage technologies, because adding capacity is relatively cheap, says Joshua Eichman, a senior research engineer at the lab and co-author of the study. To increase the length of time that batteries can reliably provide electricity, you need to stack up more and more of them, multiplying the cost of every pricey component within them. With hydrogen, you just need to build a bigger tank, or use a deeper underground cavern, he says.

Putting hydrogen to use

For hydrogen to fully replace carbon-emitting fuels, we’d need to overhaul our infrastructure to distribute, store, and use it. We’d have to produce vehicles and ships with fuel cells that convert hydrogen into electricity, as well as fueling stations along ports and roads. And we’d need to stack up fuel cells or build or retrofit power plants to use the fuel to power the grid directly.

All of which will take a lot of time and money.

But there’s another scenario that sidesteps, or delays, much of this infrastructure overhaul. Once you have hydrogen, it’s relatively simple to combine it with carbon monoxide to produce synthetic versions of the fuels that already power our cars, trucks, ships, and planes. The industrial process to do so is a century old and has been used at various times by petroleum-strapped nations to make fuels from coal or natural gas.

Carbon Engineering, based in Squamish, British Columbia, is developing facilities that capture carbon dioxide from the air. The company plans to combine it with carbon-free hydrogen to make synthetic fuels. The idea is that the fuel will be carbon neutral, emitting no more carbon dioxide than was removed or produced in the process.

In a presentation at a Codex conference late last year, Carbon Engineering founder and Harvard professor David Keith said that
falling solar prices should enable them to bring “air-to-fuels” to market for about $1 a liter (around $4 per gallon) in the mid-2020s–and that the price will continue to fall from there.

“The big news here is that this could be done with commodity hardware starting soon,” he said. “You could get to something like a million barrels a day of air-to-fuels synthetic hydrocarbon capacity, I think, soon after 2030, and after that there’s no obvious scaling limit.. . ."


If course, it remains to be seen if they can accomplish that.



Grist:
Europe is going all in on hydrogen power. Why isn’t the US?

https://grist.org/energy/europe-is-going-all-in-on-hydrogen-power-why-isnt-the-us/


. . . There’s one sector, however, where hydrogen power could be critically important: manufacturing, the part of the economy that makes steel, cement, and basically every other material good. Industrial processes, most of which involve burning fossil fuels on-site for energy, account for over 20 percent of fossil fuel pollution worldwide. Those emissions are notoriously difficult to cut, but experts say that hydrogen, produced with renewable energy, could provide a solution.

“Hydrogen is probably the most promising” way to cut industrial emissions, said Kobad Bhavnagri, head of special projects at BloombergNEF, an independent research firm focusing on clean energy. “It’s the most versatile and the most scalable solution to getting to zero emissions. . . .”

Green hydrogen could be crucial to decarbonizing industrial manufacturing. In most sectors, the solution to cutting emissions is to electrify everything — cars, for example, or home heating. But for, say, concrete production, that classic formula doesn’t work. Industrial processes require high levels of heat and complicated chemical reactions that can’t be provided by electricity alone. Hydrogen, on the other hand, can burn hot enough to run a blast furnace, and also be used as an ingredient in necessary chemical processes for products like steel.

At the moment, this is all fairly speculative — industry still runs mostly on fossil fuels. But in the wake of the global COVID-19 pandemic, European countries are boosting green hydrogen programs as part of their coronavirus stimulus packages, positioning themselves as leaders in a largely untapped market. Last month, Germany announced a “National Hydrogen Strategy,” earmarking $8.2 billion for investments in new business and research around green hydrogen, and an additional $2.3 billion for building up international partnerships around the new fuel. . . .

“What Europe and Germany have done, I suspect, will trigger something of an arms race or a scale-up race” for hydrogen power, Bhavnagri told Grist. “Everybody else will now have to get on board if they want to keep pace.”

The United States, however, is dragging its feet. “The U.S. at a national level has not released any hydrogen strategy,” Bhavnagri said.

U.S. investments in green hydrogen have been small thus far: The Energy Department announced last week that it would spend $64 million on hydrogen research and development in 2020, with $15 million earmarked towards lowering the cost of green hydrogen specifically. But that $64 million is still only a tiny fraction of what Germany has vowed to spend boosting its own H2 technology.

Meanwhile, House Democrats’ massive, 538-page climate plan mentions green hydrogen, but stops short of recommending specific investments or a large-scale build out of electrolyzing technology across the country. Instead, Democrats simply point to the need for a tax credit to lower production costs for low- or zero-emission hydrogen projects. This is despite the fact that, according to modeling from the nonpartisan policy firm Energy Innovation, switching industrial fuels to green hydrogen could reduce U.S. greenhouse emissions by roughly a billion tons by 2050 — equivalent to taking around 200 million cars off the road for a whole year.

According to Blank, the United States’ slow progress on green hydrogen is partly due to the widespread availability of natural gas, which, although it produces fewer emissions than coal or oil, is associated with other environmental risks. “For the U.S., natural gas equals energy security,” he said. With abundant — and cheap — fossil fuels within its borders, the U.S. doesn’t have much incentive to make the leap to hydrogen. “Without carbon prices, it’s a stretch to see that hydrogen is going to be competitive on any large scale,” Blank said of the U.S. industrial sector.

In Europe, on the other hand, the geography and geology is more conducive to a hydrogen power. There are huge areas in the North Sea ideally situated for offshore wind turbines, which could make the production of green hydrogen more economical. Europe also lacks substantial reserves of natural gas, compounding the need for alternative fuel sources that can be manufactured within the bloc itself. . . .
 
Both GCC:
Australia’s Jemena to supply green hydrogen to Hyundai from 2021; Green Gas project


https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/08/20200810-jemena.html


. . . Jemena has committed, through a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with Hyundai Australia and Coregas, to produce and deliver hydrogen gas to Hyundai’s Macquarie Park headquarters from early 2021.

Jemena’s Managing Director, Frank Tudor, said the deal will make hydrogen gas generated from solar and wind power available to the vehicle industry. . . .

Tudor said hydrogen gas for transport will be generated as part of Jemena’s $15-million Western Sydney Green Gas Project (which is being co-funded on a 50% basis by Australia Renewable Energy Agency (ARENA)).

The Western Sydney Green Gas Project will convert solar and wind power into hydrogen gas via electrolysis using a 500 kW electrolyzer constructed in Western Sydney. The hydrogen will then be stored for use across the Jemena Gas Network (JGN) in New South Wales, the biggest gas distribution network in Australia. If the trial to power 250 homes and a hydrogen vehicle refueling station is successful, Jemena will look to expand it across the NSW network. . . .

The Hydrogen Council estimated that in 2018 there were over 330 hydrogen refueling stations around the world, half of which were in Japan and the United States. The Council is looking to increase that to more than 3,000 refueling stations globally by 2025, enough to provide hydrogen for about two million Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles.

In Australia, there is one permanent refueling station—at Hyundai’s Macquarie Park showroom in Sydney. A refueling station is under construction in the ACT, with others planned for Melbourne and Brisbane. The largest hydrogen vehicle fleet in Australia is the 20 Hyundai NEXO SUVs, soon to be deployed by the ACT Government.

Jemena’s customer research has found that 69% of respondents would be happy to consider traveling on private and public hydrogen-powered transport and that 66% thought there should be as much focus on hydrogen vehicles as there is on electric/hybrid vehicles. . . .



US$105M WESTKUSTE100 green hydrogen project receives funding approval from German Federal Ministry of Economic Affairs


https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/08/20200810-westküste.html


. . . The project is backed by an investment volume totalling 89 million Euros (US$105M). The funding volume approved for the project’s launch on 1 August 2020 amounts to 30 million Euros. As a result, the real-world laboratory project has taken a significant step forward towards its goal of progressively establishing a regional hydrogen economy on an industrial scale. . . .

The partners plan to produce green hydrogen, transport it in the gas network, use it in industrial processes and to interlink different material cycles within the existing infrastructure. This will allow the decarbonization of industry, mobility and the heating market to be tested under real conditions.

An electrolysis plant with a capacity of 700 MW—this is our vision and the next milestone in implementing the development targets laid down in the national hydrogen strategy by 2030. Starting from today, the WESTKUSTE100 partners will be working together to create this green future and build an ecologically and economically sustainable business model. We see the energy transition as a cross-sectoral endeavour. With industry, science and politicians all pulling together, our 700 MW vision will become reality.

—Jurgen Wollschlager, managing director of Raffinerie Heide and coordinator of the WESTKUSTE100 project.

The funding approval enables work to begin on the first phase of the project, which is set to run for five years. A newly formed joint venture, H2 Westkuste GmbH, comprising EDF Deutschland, Orsted and Raffinerie Heide, is to build a 30 megawatt electrolyzer which will produce green hydrogen from offshore wind energy and provide information on the operation, maintenance, control and grid compatibility of the equipment.

The WESTKUSTE100 project is linking different sectors within an existing regional infrastructure. This includes the integration of green hydrogen in the existing process at Raffinerie Heide in a move intended to replace the use of grey hydrogen. In addition, part of the generated hydrogen will be transported via a newly built hydrogen pipeline to Heide’s municipal utility for transfer to the natural gas grid. In a future stage, there are plans to supply a hydrogen filling station.

All the milestones that are devised during the WESTKUSTE100 project form the basis for the next, scaling stages. The vision for all partners is to build a 700 MW electrolysis plant, with the future prospect of making use of the waste heat and oxygen arising during the electrolysis process. Further plans include the production of climate-friendly aviation fuels and large-scale supply to gas grids.

In the future manufacture of fuel, hydrogen from electrolysis and the unavoidable CO2 from a regional cement plant in Schleswig-Holstein will be used in the process. During the initial phase of the WESTKÜSTE100 project preparations will be made for converting the Lagerdorf cement plant to a more environmentally friendly (oxyfuel) combustion process. . . .



New Zealand government backs Hiringa’s nationwide hydrogen fueling network


https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/08/20200810-hiringa.html


The Infrastructure Reference Group
has provisionally approved $20 million for Hiringa Energy to establish New Zealand’s first nationwide network of hydrogen fuelling stations.

The initiative will involve the installation of eight hydrogen refueling stations located in Waikato, Bay of Plenty, Taranaki, Manawatu, Auckland, Taupo, Wellington and Christchurch. These stations will provide refuelling for zero emissions heavy FCEVs (hydrogen-powered fuel cell electric vehicles) such as trucks and buses.

This initial network will provide coverage for about 95% of heavy freight routes in the North Island and 82% of the South Island. . . .
 
As was to be expected, via GCR:
Hyperion XP-1 hydrogen fuel-cell supercar touts 1,000-mile range, 221-mph top speed


https://www.greencarreports.com/new...rcar-touts-1-000-mile-range-221-mph-top-speed


What has a claimed top speed of 221 mph, 0-60 mph acceleration faster than 2.2 seconds, a range of up to 1,016 miles, no tailpipe emissions, and could only be practically run in one state at present? . . . .

Although it hasn’t revealed the power output of the fuel-cell stack, the exact motor configuration, why there’s a 3-speed transmission, or how much hydrogen it can hold. Put simply—and in a counterpoint to the Nikola Badger pickup, which will combine battery and fuel-cell power sources all in one—the XP-1 aims to showcase the potential of fuel-cell vehicles to go light.

Hyperion says the XP-1’s curb weight is less than 2,000 pounds, allowing an impressive power-to-weight ratio, and the supercar can be refueled in less than five minutes at public stations. . . .

Hyperion said that the car is to be “100% engineered, designed, and hand-built in the U.S.A.” Customizable color and trim options are available, but the total production for the model will be limited to just 300 units. Deliveries are due to start in early 2022.

This first reveal is missing many critical questions about sales, service, distribution, and how it’s planning to make hydrogen available to its drivers outside of California. . . .
 
GRA said:
As was to be expected, via GCR:
Hyperion XP-1 hydrogen fuel-cell supercar touts 1,000-mile range, 221-mph top speed

So far, 100% vaporware.

I'm hoping this is using aircraft style air cooled fuel cells. Solves the ramp time problem, as the blower will shoving a lot of air through the fuel cell at "idle". Fuel cell lifetime will likely be poor at sea level temperatures and pressures, but replacing $50k in fuel cells every 10k miles is probably figured into the price. Or maybe they have solved this problem.

I do wonder how they start up the car when cold soaked, as seems to have no significant sized battery pack.
 
WetEV said:
GRA said:
As was to be expected, via GCR:
Hyperion XP-1 hydrogen fuel-cell supercar touts 1,000-mile range, 221-mph top speed

So far, 100% vaporware.

I'm hoping this is using aircraft style air cooled fuel cells. Solves the ramp time problem, as the blower will shoving a lot of air through the fuel cell at "idle". Fuel cell lifetime will likely be poor at sea level temperatures and pressures, but replacing $50k in fuel cells every 10k miles is probably figured into the price. Or maybe they have solved this problem.

I do wonder how they start up the car when cold soaked, as seems to have no significant sized battery pack.

Not to mention that it's just not even theoretically possible. For a car with a 0.2 Cd, it would need 560kw of power to maintain a speed of 221mph. Fuel cells need lots of cooling air, and that increases the aero drag. Counter-acting requirements. More cooling needs, means higher Cd, means more power needed to reach speed, means more cooling needed!

I wouldn't be surprised if the specs change when they get closer to their announced 2022 delivery date.
 
WetEV said:
GRA said:
As was to be expected, via GCR:
Hyperion XP-1 hydrogen fuel-cell supercar touts 1,000-mile range, 221-mph top speed

So far, 100% vaporware.


Sure, as was the Roadster at one time. Also Fisker and Lucid, and innumerable start-ups like Faraday Future and Aptera that never progressed beyond hype.



WetEV said:
I'm hoping this is using aircraft style air cooled fuel cells. Solves the ramp time problem, as the blower will shoving a lot of air through the fuel cell at "idle". Fuel cell lifetime will likely be poor at sea level temperatures and pressures, but replacing $50k in fuel cells every 10k miles is probably figured into the price. Or maybe they have solved this problem.

I do wonder how they start up the car when cold soaked, as seems to have no significant sized battery pack.


The lack of technical details for this at the moment is nearly all-encompassing, but this article mentions ultracaps: https://www-caranddriver-com.cdn.am...9/2022-hyperion-xp-1-hydrogen-hypercar-specs/


The company seems to realize that what's more important than the car is the fueling infrastructure.

Assuming this actually results in a buyable product, shall we start guessing the price? I'll start the bidding at $400k, which is likely low given a strippo Aventador has an MSRP of $467.6k, but for those who just can't see themselves driving the rental agency version (oh, the snickers from the guys at the country club), you can option one up all the way to $554.7k.
 
GRA said:
WetEV said:
I do wonder how they start up the car when cold soaked, as seems to have no significant sized battery pack.
The lack of technical details for this at the moment is nearly all-encompassing, but this article mentions ultracaps
At least part of the fuel cell needs to be warmed above freezing for the fuel cell to start to work as a fuel cell. Ultracaps can't do this, realistically. What a bank of ultracaps could do is "hide" the fuel cell ramp time, if short enough.
What might warm the fuel cells is a hydrogen burner. Or perhaps just the manual says never let it get below freezing... Or a plug in heater.
 
WetEV said:
GRA said:
WetEV said:
I do wonder how they start up the car when cold soaked, as seems to have no significant sized battery pack.
The lack of technical details for this at the moment is nearly all-encompassing, but this article mentions ultracaps
At least part of the fuel cell needs to be warmed above freezing for the fuel cell to start to work as a fuel cell. Ultracaps can't do this, realistically. What a bank of ultracaps could do is "hide" the fuel cell ramp time, if short enough.
What might warm the fuel cells is a hydrogen burner. Or perhaps just the manual says never let it get below freezing... Or a plug in heater.

Any car so limited would be laughed out of business, rightly so. Not sure how, but IIRR all the current FCEVs can be started down to at least -30C, and ISTR one (Mirai?) or more can be down to -40C. So far I've been unable to find the reviews that said as much, so working from memory here.

I know the Mirai and maybe others are sold in the Great White North. We'll just have to wait for info re the Hyperion.
 
Both GCC:
NYK Line, JMU and ClassNK partner to commercialize ammonia-fueled ammonia gas carrier


https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/08/20200814-nyk.html


Since carbon dioxide is not emitted when ammonia (NH3) is burned, it is viewed to have promise as a next-generation fuel that could mitigate shipping’s impact on global warming. In addition, it is said that zero emissions can be realized by utilizing CO2-free hydrogen as a raw material for ammonia. In particular, a significant reduction in CO2 emissions is expected to be achieved by replacing coal and natural gas as the main fuels for power generation. . . .

The reduction of greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions is a significant issue in the marine transportation sector. In 2018, the International Maritime Organization (IMO) set the goal of halving GHG emissions from the international maritime sector by 2050 and reaching a target of zero as early as the end of this century.

Ammonia is expected to be used as an alternative fuel for vessels. As demand for ammonia fuel is foreseen to expand, the need for a transportation infrastructure for stable supply is expected to increase. . . .




Toshiba delivers H2Rex hydrogen fuel cell system to Michinoeki-Namie


https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/08/20200814-toshiba.html


Toshiba Energy Systems & Solutions Corporation has installed the hydrogen fuel cell system “H2Rex” at Michinoeki-Namie (Roadside Station Namie) in Fukushima Prefecture. H2Rex will supply electric power and heat simultaneously by using hydrogen supplied by the Fukushima Hydrogen Energy Research Field (FH2R), one of the largest hydrogen energy research facilities in the world, which started operation in July. H2Rex will be in operation by around October 2020.

H2Rex uses hydrogen as fuel for CO2-free electricity generation and can boot up and start generating electricity in only about five minutes. The H2Rex unit that has been installed at Michinoeki-Namie is 3.5kW and generates electricity to power lights and air conditioning for part of the facilities, as well as generates heat to make hot water for hand washing. . . .

Namie-town is planning to use Michinoeki-Namie as its base for energy management to realize the reconstruction of the city, and H2Rex is going to be utilized as part of this plan. This is the third example in Fukushima Prefecture, following Azuma Sports Park and J-Village National Training Center, of the establishment of a supply chain to produce, store and transport, and use the hydrogen produced at FH2R, and it will be able to supply electricity and heat by using hydrogen from a renewable energy source.
 
GCC:
Western Australia to invest $22M to accelerate renewable hydrogen future


https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/08/20200817-wah2.html


The Western Australia Government of Premier Mark McGowan will bring forward the Western Australian Renewable Hydrogen Strategy targets by a decade and invest $22 million to develop hydrogen supply, meet growing demand for the clean fuel and create jobs. . . .

The McGowan Government’s investment, increased business interest and pace of technology development means the goals of the Western Australian Renewable Hydrogen Strategy are being bought forward from 2040 to 2030.

The strategy aims to boost the State’s hydrogen industry across four areas: export, use in remotely located industries, blending in natural gas networks, and use in fuel cell electric transport vehicles.

The McGowan Government has committed $5.7 million to an Australia-first renewable energy microgrid in the Gascoyne town of Denham, using a new solar power system to produce hydrogen from water.

The demonstrator microgrid will test the technology and feasibility of implementing microgrids incorporating hydrogen in regional areas across the State. . . .

Another $2 million has been allocated to FMG H2’s renewable hydrogen mobility project in the Pilbara, which will produce solar hydrogen for transport at Fortescue’s Christmas Creek iron ore mine, advancing vital decarbonization technologies.

Fortescue plans to purchase 10 hydrogen fuel cell electric buses to replace its diesel bus fleet, and the lessons learnt from this project will support their plans to reduce reliance on imported diesel across a range of transport forms.

Another $1 million will be allocated by the McGowan Government towards ATCO’s hydrogen refueler project in Jandakot that will develop, deploy and operate the first green hydrogen refuelling station in WA.

The station will integrate with ATCO’s existing Clean Energy Innovation Hub in Jandakot, and service ATCO’s fleet of fuel cell electric cars and approved vehicles of other organisations. . . .

Over time, the hydrogen refueller project could be expanded to target more than 1,000 fuel cell electric vehicles in metropolitan Perth.

An additional $5 million in funding will be allocated to the State Government’s existing $10 million Renewable Hydrogen Fund for grants to support industry development.

Other initiatives in the WA Recovery Plan to boost the hydrogen industry include:

$3 million for a regulatory reform package to undertake and support a local hydrogen industry;

$2.7 million to expand the Renewable Hydrogen Unit in the Department of Jobs, Tourism, Science and Innovation;

$1 million towards identifying locations suitable for hydrogen storage;

$1 million towards developing a detailed supply chain model that promotes hydrogen and identifies bottlenecks and limitations affecting the hydrogen export industry; and

$600,000 to study blending hydrogen in the WA gas network and related technical, economic and regulatory implications.
 
All GCC:
Denyo and Toyota jointly develop and start verification tests for fuel cell power supply vehicle that uses hydrogen to generate electricity


https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/09/20200918-denyo.html



H2@Scale project launched in Texas; renewable hydrogen for multiple end-use applications


https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/09/20200916-texas.html



Ballard launches high-power density fuel cell stack for vehicle propulsion; 4.3 kW/L; Audi partner


https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/09/20200915-ballard.html



Snam and Saipem sign MoU to work together on green hydrogen development and CO2 capture


https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/09/20200912-snam.html



Hyundai expands NEXO fuel cell SUV availability in Northern California


https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/09/20200911-nexo.html
 
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