Tesla Supercharger Network

EVDRIVER said:

GRA said:

Stoaty said:

Looks like Tesla hasn't given up on Bishop Superchargers after all:

https://www.sierrawave.net/telsa-seeks-to-put-12-re-charging-stations-in-bishop/

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That's a good location, especially for people heading up to the trailheads at N. Lake/Lake Sabrina/S. Lake (BTDT), although I'd personally prefer something closer to Schat's Bakery. It's definitely a better location than the EA site under construction at the Von's.

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Yes with Bishop being such an expansive and large town.

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I thought I was sometimes tardy replying to posts, but three months? As it happens, the location on Warren St. is 6/10ths of a mile from Schat's and about the same from the Wilderness permit office (across the street from Schat's), which is going to be a bit far for most people to want to walk during summer (highs '90s-'100s), and may or may not be OK during winter. Von's is the same .6 mile to Schat's and the permit office from the other side, but there are no restaurants in its immediate vicinity.

Supercharger Usage In North America Reached Pre-COVID High
https://insideevs.com/news/432538/superchargers-usage-north-america-pre-covid-high/

I wonder how much is related to those w/vehicles with "free" included Supercharging now taking more advantage if they can no longer charge for cheap/free at work due to lockdown/WFH. For some others, Supercharging might be cheaper than paying residential rates. And, some could never charge at home.

(For me, Electrify America, if I DC FC my Bolt from 0 to ~55% with Pass+ ends up being around 18 cents/kWh (not including Pass+ monthly fee that is being waived now) if my battery isn't too cold. My marginal cost to charge at home is over 30 cents/kWh due to Pacific Gouge & Extort. So, I'm in two of these boats except that I can't use Tesla Superchargers.)

cwerdna said:

Supercharger Usage In North America Reached Pre-COVID High
https://insideevs.com/news/432538/superchargers-usage-north-america-pre-covid-high/

I wonder how much is related to those w/vehicles with "free" included Supercharging now taking more advantage if they can no longer charge for cheap/free at work due to lockdown/WFH. For some others, Supercharging might be cheaper than paying residential rates. And, some could never charge at home...

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I think that hypothesis is a bit of a stretch. Those of us with free Supercharging ("FUSC") are an increasingly small proportion of the Tesla fleet.

My guess is that the increased use of Supercharging is a combination of more Teslas on the road and a resumption of travel/road trips as the lockdowns are released, or ignored, in much of the country. Given that air and foreign travel is not a popular option at present, road trips seem to be more popular — my very scenic tourist county is really jumping with visitors at present (and I try to stay away from them).

Not that my crystal ball is any better than yours!

dgpcolorado said:

My guess is that the increased use of Supercharging is a combination of more Teslas on the road and a resumption of travel/road trips as the lockdowns are released, or ignored, in much of the country. Given that air and foreign travel is not a popular option at present, road trips seem to be more popular — my very scenic tourist county is really jumping with visitors at present (and I try to stay away from them).

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This is my impression as well. Nobody wants to fly, particularly if they just spent $40k on a car and can drive it (literally) thousands of miles for free.

Why Other Car Companies Don't Use Tesla Superchargers
Tesla says it will give its charging technology to any automaker who wants it. But the fine print makes this a terrible deal, even if it's free.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a35030461/why-other-car-companies-dont-use-tesla-superchargers/

It appears Tesla’s first Hawaiian Supercharger will be on Larry Ellison’s 3,400-person island
https://electrek.co/2020/12/22/it-appears-teslas-first-hawaiian-supercharger-will-be-on-larry-ellisons-3400-person-island/
LOL! Gotta do a lot of long distance interstate travel.

Above piece says: "The 145-square-mile island doesn’t have any traffic lights, only 30ish miles of paved roads and the 3,400 person population lives almost exclusively in the small Lana’i City, pictured below, with the proposed Supercharger location (via Supercharge.info):"

But hey... Leisure Suit Larry has MANY billions of $, so this is no huge expense for him.

Select California Tesla Supercharger Stations Are Half Off At Night
https://insideevs.com/news/499091/california-supercharger-half-off-night/

Looks like we are seeing the first signs of having the network open to other vehicles. I suspect that this is mostly about Europe where Tesla cars have the same plug as the competition, but if successful, this could potentially expand into the US market.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/41294/tesla-will-share-supercharger-network-in-2022

palmermd said:

Looks like we are seeing the first signs of having the network open to other vehicles. I suspect that this is mostly about Europe where Tesla cars have the same plug as the competition, but if successful, this could potentially expand into the US market.

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This article is definitely about in Europe where Tesla now uses a CCS Combo 2 plug.

I've been noticing the congestion at northeast US SuperChargers growing significantly over the last year, and that's even with Tesla adding lots of new locations (2 just opened in MA last month, and 2 more are under construction). I doubt there's a viable business reason for Tesla to give up their competitive advantage (access to the SuC network) while also inconveniencing their customers.

As EA continues to add automakers to its CV and its locations enable most users distance travel, the Tesla Network's differentiator diminishes greatly. Many/most will not use either network except for the infrequent long trip.

Tesla now has to turn its network into an incremental revenue platform.

Similar to how Amazon has turned its cloud, then telephony platform from internal service to enterprise platform for the industry.

DougWantsALeaf said:

As EA continues to add automakers to its CV and its locations enable most users distance travel, the Tesla Network's differentiator diminishes greatly. Many/most will not use either network except for the infrequent long trip.

Tesla now has to turn its network into an incremental revenue platform.

Similar to how Amazon has turned its cloud, then telephony platform from internal service to enterprise platform for the industry.

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Tesla wants the other electric cars to die.

How can TSLA's stock price be supported? Monopoly pricing power.

WetEV said:

How can TSLA's stock price be supported?

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Reasonable portion of a growing pie. If Tesla is 20% of a mature worlwide pie of 50M EVs per year that is 20x company growth. That about matches Musk's projections for Tesla out to 2030 - 2035. In your doubling terms, it is every 3 years instead of the 4 you project.

Amazon makes way more money selling its cloud to other retailers (think other car companies), than if they had just kept kept cloud advantage to themselves.

DougWantsALeaf said:

Amazon makes way more money selling its cloud to other retailers (think other car companies), than if they had just kept kept cloud advantage to themselves.

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Tesla is not Amazon.
The Supercharger network is not the 'Cloud'

Do you really think that Tesla or their customers want your LEAF taking up a Supercharger spot, charging at 30 kW in the winter ?

Yes, what better way to sell the product AND the service.

Charge 40% more for non Tesla and add a couple ccs and Chademo outlets.

Costco would be another model. They sell their branded goods right next to competitors in their stores. Once you have the audience, and you control the prices, you can pull in more market share.

EA is not a big threat today, but it is growing quickly. GM, VW group, Ford, Volvo, etc.. are all sending money into the competing ecosystem. That cannot be dismissed. EA has also been winning more of the big highway plazas, which is shaping the battle. Teslas do frequent the Chademo Plugs in those locations, but Tesla is then having the diminished experience vs. The Mach E and others.

DougWantsALeaf said:

Yes, what better way to sell the product AND the service.

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Even better to to monopolize the product by monopolizing the service. Unless you are one of those paying monopoly prices and having zero choice.

DougWantsALeaf said:

As EA continues to add automakers to its CV and its locations enable most users distance travel, the Tesla Network's differentiator diminishes greatly. Many/most will not use either network except for the infrequent long trip.

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Tesla opening SuC access to non-Tesla cars (by adding CCS type 1 plugs) is probably not going to happen in N.A. EA's network doesn't diminish Tesla's big lead here. Think of the costs of opening new stations... Tesla builds their SuC hardware, EA buys it from others.

Instead, Tesla will almost certainly come out with a CCS type 1 adapter and let it's cars owners opt-in to use the myriad available CCS networks that are growing. The last thing Tesla owners what is to see SuC stalls hogged by slower charging EVs.

DougWantsALeaf said:

Charge 40% more for non Tesla and add a couple ccs and Chademo outlets.

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LOL. CHAdeMO plugs added to a SuC? :lol: You're just trolling us now.

We are seeing an interesting phenomenon here at some of the latest supercharger builds. Using our hometown for example. Tesla is putting in a 16 stall Supercharger at the Walmart that is maybe 1/2 kilometre away from our house. But interestingly enough Tesla is being contracted to make four of those sites Chademo/CCS stalls. Essentially Tesla was given a grant to cover siting and permitting for the supercharger. In turn Tesla will install 4 Chademo/CCS stalls. But Tesla won’t operate them. A third party (I think FLO but not sure) will operate and maintain them.

There have been over a hundred CHADEMO/CCS sites announced for this province in the last couple weeks, all for completion before end 2022. Between them and 21 more Supercharger locations the charging landscape should look pretty good in the next couple years.

Webleafowner, that is exciting news. Are you able to post a picture of the chargers once up?

I believe it's in Teslas best interest to bring more ev drivers to their sites, and not the other way around. I am split as to how soon we would see a ccs adapter in NA. I dont think Tesla feels like it is an urgent need.

While not being done by Tesla, as webeleafowners describes in BC, there are several DCFC sites in my state where the state-supported (VW settlement money) CCS/Chademo Chargepoint DCFC stalls are being located at the same sites as new Supercharger Stations. Perhaps this will be a trend going forward. Two I have visited are Craig, CO and Montrose, CO.

All of the Electicify America sites I've seen have a single CCS/CHADEMO combo station and several CCS only stations. CHADEMO is only given a token nod because the settlement required it. CCS is the new standard and CHADEMO is dying on the vine.