The 40KWH Battery Topic

lorenfb said:

danrjones said:

jmurtagh13 said:

....Date.......SOH.......HX......AH.....Chg
03/09/2018 99.10 98.86 115.00
07/14/2018 97.13 111.58 112.13 -1.97
09/21/2018 96.15 111.74 111.00 -0.98
10/18/2018 94.91 112.07 109.56 -1.24
12/31/2018 94.77 111.47 109.40 -0.14
01/15/2019 93.69 111.75 108.16 -1.08
01/21/2019 92.21 111.97 106.45 -1.48
03/01/2019 92.14 112.26 106.37 -0.07
04/06/2019 92.09 112.27 106.31 -0.05
06/13/2019 91.34 113.00 105.44 -0.75
07/01/2019 91.25 113.66 105.34 -0.09
07/10/2019 91.20 113.80 105.28 -0.05
07/12/2019 91.67 113.83 105.83 +0.47
07/28/2019 91.60 114.00 105.74 -0.07
09/10/2019 91.40 113.57 105.51 -0.20
10/13/2019 91.92 113.52 106.11 +0.52
11/11/2019 91.86 111.66 106.04 -0.06
12/10/2019 91.84 111.83 106.02 -0.02
01/10/2020 91.80 112.26 105.97 -0.04
02/10/2020 91.77 112.07 105.94 -0.03
03/10/2020 91.74 112.16 105.90 -0.03
04/10/2020 92.12 111.46 106.34 +0.38

Click to expand...

One thing I find interesting is that HX (if it even means anything) does not seem to be as uniform from driver to driver. In the data above the car has a SOH of 92.12 and an HX of 111.46, but at one time the HX had hit 114. My HX is lower, at only 109.17, and yet my SOH as of this AM is 90.13. My HX has gradually increased more or less, except the one time I fast charged, and that caused a large upward spike for about 2 weeks. If HX is in someway related to internal resistance of the pack, say caused by use/cycles/ or heat, one would expect higher HX to lead to lower SOH, would you not?

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HX has become meaningless for Leaf2 vehicles. Previously, it was the ratio of battery resistance (new/present) as a percent and tracked SOH.

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Is HX a value on the bus or is it being calculated by LeafSpy? I thought it was an actual piece of data on the bus. Why would Nissan have a piece of data on the bus that is completely useless? It is certainly possible but... why?

DougWantsALeaf said:

My belief is that the reported SOH is now no longer the true pack value, rather a number that Nissan is overriding using a model to help manage longevity of the pack.

Click to expand...

On this I totally agree with you. But that makes you wonder how they will do the "bars" for the warranty.
Also raises some interesting questions about artificially lowering your capacity... from a legal standpoint.


Also means all these comparisons between vehicles may mean diddly squat since none of us are seeing our true SOH.

danrjones said:

lorenfb said:

danrjones said:

One thing I find interesting is that HX (if it even means anything) does not seem to be as uniform from driver to driver. In the data above the car has a SOH of 92.12 and an HX of 111.46, but at one time the HX had hit 114. My HX is lower, at only 109.17, and yet my SOH as of this AM is 90.13. My HX has gradually increased more or less, except the one time I fast charged, and that caused a large upward spike for about 2 weeks. If HX is in someway related to internal resistance of the pack, say caused by use/cycles/ or heat, one would expect higher HX to lead to lower SOH, would you not?

Click to expand...

HX has become meaningless for Leaf2 vehicles. Previously, it was the ratio of battery resistance (new/present) as a percent and tracked SOH.

Click to expand...

Is HX a value on the bus or is it being calculated by LeafSpy? I thought it was an actual piece of data on the bus. Why would Nissan have a piece of data on the bus that is completely useless? It is certainly possible but... why?

Click to expand...

Yes, it's on the data bus and just reported by LS. Maybe Nissan failed to update the code for HX for Leaf2, i.e. an input parameter
may have changed in the Leaf2's BCM. Without disassembly of Leaf1 & Leaf2 BCM's HX code, who knows.

26 Month Update.
Still staying fairly flat. A drop of .05 for the last month. Weather has been relatively cool here in Atlanta, also less driving for the last 2 months. I've just been charging to 65% or so and let it go down to around 25%. I charge early morning when the battery is cooler, which makes more of a deference in the hotter months. In summary a very big drop the first year, then almost flat. I'm really curious to see what happens this summer.

......Date.....Mileage..SOH....HX....AH.......Chg
03/09/2018 00,012 99.10 98.86 115.00
07/14/2018 03,215 97.13 111.58 112.13 -1.97
09/21/2018 03,753 96.15 111.74 111.00 -0.98
10/18/2018 05,190 94.91 112.07 109.56 -1.24
12/31/2018 07,143 94.77 111.47 109.40 -0.14
01/15/2019 07,559 93.69 111.75 108.16 -1.08
01/21/2019 07,729 92.21 111.97 106.45 -1.48
03/01/2019 08,708 92.14 112.26 106.37 -0.07
04/06/2019 09,738 92.09 112.27 106.31 -0.05
06/13/2019 11,568 91.34 113.00 105.44 -0.75
07/01/2019 12,137 91.25 113.66 105.34 -0.09
07/10/2019 12,330 91.20 113.80 105.28 -0.05
07/12/2019 12,373 91.67 113.83 105.83 +0.47
07/28/2019 12,866 91.60 114.00 105.74 -0.07
09/10/2019 13,800 91.40 113.57 105.51 -0.20
10/13/2019 14,455 91.92 113.52 106.11 +0.52
11/11/2019 15,256 91.86 111.66 106.04 -0.06
12/10/2019 15,866 91.84 111.83 106.02 -0.02
01/10/2020 16,654 91.80 112.26 105.97 -0.04
02/10/2020 17,358 91.77 112.07 105.94 -0.03
03/10/2020 17,995 91.74 112.16 105.90 -0.03
04/10/2020 18,337 92.12 111.46 106.34 +0.38
05/10/2020 18,922 92.07 110.93 106.29 -0.05

First year drop -6.96%
Last 14 month drop -0.07%

jmurtagh13 said:

First year drop -6.96%
Last 14 month drop -0.07%

Click to expand...

Has your dealer applied any updates of any kind during service ?

I do not believe my dealer did any updates on my first service. My second service is overdo but I am not able to leave town at the moment.

danrjones said:

jmurtagh13 said:

First year drop -6.96%
Last 14 month drop -0.07%

Click to expand...

Has your dealer applied any updates of any kind during service ?

I do not believe my dealer did any updates on my first service. My second service is overdo but I am not able to leave town at the moment.

Click to expand...

No, I have not had the car back to the dealer since I've purchased it. I do have some recall items, but nothing that's urgent, so my current plan is to bring it in a few months before the 36 month warranty is up. I will research the software updates before bring it in, and depending what they are will select only the ones I want installed.

I really focus on keeping the battery as cool as possible, keeping acceleration and speed to minimum in the summer, parking in the shade and charging in early morning. In the summer I also use a 3KW L2 charger instead of the 6KW which does keep the battery temperature lower.

With the increasing number of sales in Europe, my suspicion now is that Nissan will be moving away from the 40kWh battery after this model year, moving to the 62 and a yet to be released higher capacity model (75-80 maybe?), with a little efficiency magic allowing the new top end to get close to the magic 300 miles. Its either that, or they will need to continue to bring prices down. With the new Bolt and Niro, the current Leaf Plus range is already feeling a bit dated with the model only in its second year.

https://www.computerbild.de/artikel/cb-News-Connected-Car-Nissan-Leaf-kaufen-7.000-Euro-sparen-24943883.html

The sales are to help push through parts/capacity already in the delivery chain. Guessing the car was also pretty high margin as battery prices have come down.

Plus the 2021 Bolt is finally suppose to get nice seats and adaptive cruise, 2 reasons I steered away... pun intended.

And there is a second Bolt SUV or CUV and in theory Kia has something coming with 800 volts. In CA there are plenty of Niro EVs but my closest dealer marks it up above msrp before giving you back some kia discounts worth about $2500. If the Kona and niro EVs had the discounts the Bolt has no dealer could keep them in stock.

I never planned to keep my 2018 for more than about 2 years so about this time next year I'll be looking.

EDIT: OH and I totally forgot about the ID4 from VW.

danrjones said:

Plus the 2021 Bolt is finally suppose to get nice seats and adaptive cruise, 2 reasons I steered away... pun intended.

Click to expand...

GM's delayed the Bolt update to the 2022 MY, due to Covid-19.

GRA said:

danrjones said:

Plus the 2021 Bolt is finally suppose to get nice seats and adaptive cruise, 2 reasons I steered away... pun intended.

Click to expand...

GM's delayed the Bolt update to the 2022 MY, due to Covid-19.

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I swear I read yesterday that GM had announced that Covid had not impacted their EV plans. Wierd.

Their version of delay must be different than mine.

https://electrek.co/2020/05/12/gm-ev-chief-there-are-no-delays-in-our-evs-due-to-the-pandemic/

See the last sentence:

https://www.greencarreports.com/new...electric-vehicle-program-in-pandemic-slowdown

Yeah that was missing from the youtube version of the news I saw yesterday.

Makes me wonder when their 2022 will be out.

More competition with better features is a good thing.

rogersleaf said:

rogersleaf said:

rogersleaf said:

Reached 10,000 miles at 1 week short of 5 month ownership.

LS stats:
AHr... 111.16
SOH... 96.29%
Hx... 115.17%
SOC... 98.8% and 486 GID
403.75v, cells balanced between 4.202-4.206v
odo... 10002
7 QC / 269 L2’s

Click to expand...

At 15,000 miles at 1 week past 7 months ownership

LS stats:
AHr... 109.9
SOH... 95.2%
Hx... 115.38%
SOC... 98.6% and 479 GID
403.47v, cells balanced between 4.201-4.206v
odo... 15118
8 QC / 390 L2’s

Click to expand...

At 10 months and 20,000 miles

LS stats:
AHr... 108.66
SOH... 94.13%
Hx... 121.84%
SOC... 98.2% and 471 GID
402.42v, cells balanced between 4.190-4.192v
odo... 20196
14 QC / 524 L2’s

Main difference in charging behavior and usage is due to cold weather. The car is getting charged to 100% daily using the timers so that charging completes about an hour before needing to leave on my commute. Then, the car's pre-heat timer is set so it's warm when leaving. Most nights the car is inside an attached garage.

Click to expand...

At just under 14 months and 25,000 miles

LS stats:
AHr... 107.38
SOH... 93.03%
Hx... 117.59%
SOC... 98.8% and 469 GID
403.72v, cells balanced between 4.204-4.207v
odo... 25,072
18 QC / 652 L2’s

I am coming up on my next three month adjustment.

As of this AM I am currently:

SOH: 90.07%
AMPHr: 103.98
Hx: 109.1

Odo ~6100 miles

Sure looks like I'm about to crash down into the 80% range, though evidence from other vehicles here would disagree. We will know soon.
Heat is on here as well, 107f yesterday.

So, apparently my first post, here. , but have been reading with interest for some time, and it is time to share some stats of my own.

I register my SOH every charge, for the last 252 L2 and 17 L3 charges over the past 46.000km. Mostly the SOH drops by 0,01% every couple days (Every 3,7 days on average or every 438 km on average). Seems unrelated to mileage, and up until my Muxsan extender things seemed pretty predictable (i am now 10 days overdue for a SOH reset)

Car was first on the road 03-2018, so at time of buying is was about a Year old.

ODO DATE SOH
26.000km / 16.000mi 05-2019 96,16%
38.000km / 23.750mi 08-2019 94,09% (big drop, 1,75%)
48.000km / 30.000mi 11-2019 93,12% (Another drop 0,81%)
60.000km / 37.500mi 02-2020 92,69% A raise of 0,07% (this was before the extender)
73.000km / 45.600mi 05-2020 92,52% Now

The last number has to be taken with a grain of salt. I have been running the extender battery for the last +- 11.000km (3 months). So i am not sure what the impact is yet. However, degradation has slowed significantly the last +- 6 months or so.

The last +- 30.000km i have lost +- 0,5% SOH, as opposed to the +- 7% the 50.000km before that.

Reading this topic i suppose the numbers correlate with what a lot of you guys are finding, however i seem to be one of the few with a decent amount of km's under my belt in the Leaf.

It is charged to 100% at work 5 days a week, but receives relatively few quick charges, and most of the time it is stored below 80% SOC over the weekend.

I have loads more data points for those interested. As well as graphs. But thought i would start out light.

We love data points, bring them on! Very excited to have a Muxsan extended battery on the board.

danrjones said:

I am coming up on my next three month adjustment.

As of this AM I am currently:

SOH: 90.07%
AMPHr: 103.98
Hx: 109.1

Odo ~6100 miles

Sure looks like I'm about to crash down into the 80% range, though evidence from other vehicles here would disagree. We will know soon.
Heat is on here as well, 107f yesterday.

Click to expand...

This AM I'm at

SOH: 90.03%
AMPHr: 103.93
Hx: 108.89

Apparently I typo'd my mileage last post, it actually is just under 5900.

I should be starting my 3 month adjustment like today or tomorrow... or not? Was thinking I might see it this AM but not yet.

danrjones said:

This AM I'm at

SOH: 90.03%
AMPHr: 103.93
Hx: 108.89

Apparently I typo'd my mileage last post, it actually is just under 5900.

I should be starting my 3 month adjustment like today or tomorrow... or not? Was thinking I might see it this AM but not yet.

Click to expand...

Dang, I was really hoping I wouldn't have a 3 month adjustment. But this AM it has started.
Down to 89.89% SOH and dropping. I'll update again in a day or two when its done.

The adjustments take ~3 - 4 days. Not sure why it takes so long.