Chademo adapter performance on a Tesla model AWD with 50 KW BC Hydro Chademo station.

Hi folks. I know this is not really a Leaf topic but some of us on this board are Leaf/Tesla owners. With that in mind I thought this might be of interest to some.

I took my wifes model 3 to the BC Hydro Chademo/CCS ststion in town to make sure my new BC Hydro RFID cardworked as they recently switched the station from Green Lots to BC Hydro. Gave me a chance to check the Chademo adapter again before we head out on a trip that we will require it for. I pulled in with around 58 percent in the battery. It was around 7 degrees celcius and obviously no preconditioning as that only works with Superchargers. Here are a few pics of the process between 60 or so percent and 90 percent at which point I disconnected.

Bulky connector as you can see but connects pretty easy.





First shot. Sorry. Didn't take the first shot till 68 percent but it hadn't changed from when I hooked up at about 58 percent. I think it started around 38 KW.



Here at 81 percent almost the same. A slight rise in power and speed from 40 KW to 42 KW. .



This is where it gets interesting, At 86 percent the power climbs to 48 KW (47 in the picture sorry)



It hung around there for a little bit and then at 90 percent is started to drop again to 37 percent. Unplugged soon after that as a Leaf showed up looking for a charge.



Just a guess but my guess is as the battery got warmer it was able to accept a charge better, hence the climb in power. Right now you can only pre-condition when navigating to a Supercharger. I think it would be useful for tesla to allow for navigation to other sources of charging and triggering the pre-condition process. This would be especially usefull if
a. the temperature was colder
b. the Chademo adapter had a higher rating. Maybe 75 to 100 KW.

Anyway, thought it was interesting and germane to EV's in general. I'll probably post this on the TMC board as well.

Cheers.

Have a Plugshare link to the charger? What's the amperage on the charger? The power level might've been going up due to the voltage rising.

Some "50 kW" chargers are only 100 amps at stupid voltages like 500 volts (100 amps * 500 volts = 50,000 watts). At say, 370 volts, you'd only hit 37 kW at max if the 100 amps is the bottleneck (100 amps * 370 volts = 37,000 watts).

This is why I avoid the two EVgo dual-standard DC FCs that are sorta near me. EVgo is expensive (see California: Bay Area pricing at https://www.evgo.com/charging-plans/) and I wouldn't hit much more than 37 kW on my Bolt with them. Electrify America opened up a site recently w/MUCH higher powered DC FCs so my Bolt could hit 55 kW on those and with Pass+ membership, they only charge 18 cents/minute.

That adapter really puts strain on the charging port.

^^^
Indeed. I'm surprised Tesla didn't make the cable longer or include some sort of support similar to a tripod or include no cable at all. I've physically seen and picked up the adapter at Tesla's small booth at Tokyo Motor Show last year.

https://shop.tesla.com/product/sae-j1772-charging-adapter has no cable.

cwerdna said:

Have a Plugshare link to the charger? What's the amperage on the charger? The power level might've been going up due to the voltage rising.

Some "50 kW" chargers are only 100 amps at stupid voltages like 500 volts (100 amps * 500 volts = 50,000 watts). At say, 370 volts, you'd only hit 37 kW at max if the 100 amps is the bottleneck (100 amps * 370 volts = 37,000 watts).

This is why I avoid the two EVgo dual-standard DC FCs that are sorta near me. EVgo is expensive (see California: Bay Area pricing at https://www.evgo.com/charging-plans/) and I wouldn't hit much more than 37 kW on my Bolt with them. Electrify America opened up a site recently w/MUCH higher powered DC FCs so my Bolt could hit 55 kW on those and with Pass+ membership, they only charge 18 cents/minute.

Click to expand...

Hey Cwerdna. I'm having some difficulty linking the Plugshare location but it is Vernon BC Canada. You'll see my entry today. I'm not up on a lot of the techy stuff so I appreciate your commentary. Interesting stuff.

LeftieBiker said:

That adapter really puts strain on the charging port.

Click to expand...

Yah no kidding. Its not super heavy but it is substantial.

^^^
Look like https://www.plugshare.com/location/95070. Is charging really free? If so, that's nice.

When you/someone gets a chance, would be nice to take a pic of the labels of the DC FC and upload them to Plugshare. The unit looks like it's made by ABB but they have DC chargers in all sorts of "strengths".

cwerdna said:

Have a Plugshare link to the charger? What's the amperage on the charger? The power level might've been going up due to the voltage rising.

Some "50 kW" chargers are only 100 amps at stupid voltages like 500 volts (100 amps * 500 volts = 50,000 watts). At say, 370 volts, you'd only hit 37 kW at max if the 100 amps is the bottleneck (100 amps * 370 volts = 37,000 watts).

This is why I avoid the two EVgo dual-standard DC FCs that are sorta near me. EVgo is expensive (see California: Bay Area pricing at https://www.evgo.com/charging-plans/) and I wouldn't hit much more than 37 kW on my Bolt with them. Electrify America opened up a site recently w/MUCH higher powered DC FCs so my Bolt could hit 55 kW on those and with Pass+ membership, they only charge 18 cents/minute.

Click to expand...

Figured it out. Duh.

https://www.plugshare.com/location/95070

cwerdna said:

^^^
Look like https://www.plugshare.com/location/95070. Is charging really free? If so, that's nice.

When you/someone gets a chance, would be nice to take a pic of the labels of the DC FC and upload them to Plugshare. The unit looks like it's made by ABB but they have DC chargers in all sorts of "strengths".

Click to expand...

Yah its kind of weird. This station has been free for years. Not sure why. All the city stations in this town are free although you have to pay for parking at the level 2's. It is about 8 blocks ) ish from our house. We rarely use it. Surprisingly I don't think the fact that it is free makes it subject to abuse. Probably because of it's location close to the bus depot.

On edit. I know there are some other DCFC's in the province that are free but usually only for trial purposes for 6 months and then they become pay stations. This one is the exception as far as I know. (not an expert)

I'll try and take those pictures soonest and upload them.

Cheers

So far, all of the DCFCs at Superstores are still free. In Vancouver, the BCIT campus DCFC is also still free. Oddly, once in awhile other DCFCs in Vancouver have been free at random, like the one in the lower Lonsdale area in North Vancouver and the one in Vancouver at Empire field. Both of those were originally free, then became $0.32/kWh, then have once in awhile reverted to free for a week or two and then go back to pay. Actually, the one at UFV in Abbotsford was likewise recently free and is back to pay now.

I'll not complain about free charging, but BC Hydro hasn't exactly done a stellar job of managing DC fast charging infrastructure rollout and maintenance. I guess it's all relative though, as ICBC is an absolute dumpster fire. I sure hope ICBC becomes a focal point of the next provincial election and that an opposition party (ie Liberals) promise to privatize auto insurance - they'll get my vote if they do.

Same with condo/townhouse insurance, but I digress! End of rant

I would give kudos to BC Hydro in the sense that there are over 5 times as many DCFC sites now as there was 5 years ago and a lot of the coordination of the different providers was BC Hydro. Even the North route to Prince Rupert will be done by mid summer. Kinda cool.

Fair enough, I'm guessing the reliability issues and related changes of vendor equipment have been more of a problem in Vancouver. There have been times when DCFC machines have been down for weeks, then finally repaired, then quickly thereafter to fail again. Reliability has definitely improved over the last year.

cwerdna said:

Have a Plugshare link to the charger? What's the amperage on the charger? The power level might've been going up due to the voltage rising.

Some "50 kW" chargers are only 100 amps at stupid voltages like 500 volts (100 amps * 500 volts = 50,000 watts). At say, 370 volts, you'd only hit 37 kW at max if the 100 amps is the bottleneck (100 amps * 370 volts = 37,000 watts).

This is why I avoid the two EVgo dual-standard DC FCs that are sorta near me. EVgo is expensive (see California: Bay Area pricing at https://www.evgo.com/charging-plans/) and I wouldn't hit much more than 37 kW on my Bolt with them. Electrify America opened up a site recently w/MUCH higher powered DC FCs so my Bolt could hit 55 kW on those and with Pass+ membership, they only charge 18 cents/minute.

Click to expand...

The unit he's charging on is a 50 kW ABB unit which (when working properly) will give full 125A on CHAdeMO or CCS.

You should try out those EVgo stations again. Nearly all sites that were 100A have been corrected to 120A or 125A.

The sudden jump to 48 kW is the pack reaching temp and allowing full charging speed. The voltage rise during a charge is much more gradual (except at very low SOC). The model 3 appears to run the pack heater quite aggressively during charging, according to those who sniff the CAN bus...

^^^
Thanks for all the insight!

JeremyW said:

You should try out those EVgo stations again. Nearly all sites that were 100A have been corrected to 120A or 125A.

Click to expand...

I may check them out again. I'll PM you about the sites if I find out otherwise.

If they are 120+ amp capable, the labeling on them would've changed to reflect that, right?

This illustrates what I see as the main difference between the LEAF and well...everyone else.

The LEAF would have immediately charged at full rate right away even if the pack was cold. Obviously this makes for a more efficient use of time but what kind of impact is this doing to the battery?

Tesla (along with nearly everyone else who has TMS most notably Chevy) wants to heat up the pack first then allow full speed charging which will either heat up the pack faster or force cooling which seems a bit...wasteful.

So is the main source of degradation heat or high charge at lower temps? Could this be the reason the newer chemistry from Nissan doesn't exhibit the climatic effects of the older packs? (which charged the same way BTW)

99% of Chademo plugs are UP TO 125 Amps. And up to 500V.
Often even less due to grid limitations.
Tesla pack is way below 400V when at 50%.
So if voltage is 350V, multiplied with 125A = 43,75kW.
Voltage rises and rises until it reaches 400-402V and then current
rapidly drops as maximum voltage has been reached.
As 50kW is not enough for massive packs...voltage will not spike even when DC-charging.


24kWh Leaf acts similarly. It reaches (depending on battery temperature) maximum voltage at around 50%.
Up to that point, it can pull full 125A. After that, voltage is limited to around 396V and current drops.
Look at those screenshots.


So it literally goes from 10% to 50% in 10 minutes, after that, things... calm down a lot :lol:

Have a MS LR+ Tesla with Chademo adapter and a 2019 Leaf SL. The Leaf came with a free charge card for 5 independent charging companies that is good for 2 years. I tested my Chademo adapter with the local EVGo and it connected and charged for 30 minutes at 38KW.

I thought it was pretty cool the Tesla charged up on the "No Charge to Charge" Nissan Leaf card.

DaveinOlyWA said:

Tesla (along with nearly everyone else who has TMS most notably Chevy) wants to heat up the pack first then allow full speed charging which will either heat up the pack faster or force cooling which seems a bit...wasteful.

Click to expand...

True high speed charging requires a warm/hot pack to avoid lithium battery plating in the summer. Even piddly CHAdeMO will cause battery plating in a cold battery.

As for energy waste, you are not thinking clearly. All packs reach high(ish) temperatures. Tesla sooner, LEAF towards the end. The difference is that Tesla *cools* the pack afterwards and the LEAF does not. Some of the Tesla heat from the battery comes from running the motor inefficiently but that is a minor contribution -- IIRC on the order of 0.5 kWh

The 'charge hot, cool quickly' approach is brilliant. Not only does it enable truly fast charging, it preserves battery health. That preservation of battery health is not only money in your pocket, it is environmentally sound. Consider the embodied energy wasted by LEAFs that have short lifetimes due to battery degradation.

DonLandis said:

Have a MS LR+ Tesla with Chademo adapter and a 2019 Leaf SL. The Leaf came with a free charge card for 5 independent charging companies that is good for 2 years. I tested my Chademo adapter with the local EVGo and it connected and charged for 30 minutes at 38KW.

I thought it was pretty cool the Tesla charged up on the "No Charge to Charge" Nissan Leaf card.

Click to expand...

NCTC was a sales perk for getting your LEAF. Because of accidents, I have overlapping cards and gave away one to someone who traveled extensively. That gave them 9 months of free charging.

But its all about using the resources available to you. Use it or lose it. that is your options.

SageBrush said:

DaveinOlyWA said:

Tesla (along with nearly everyone else who has TMS most notably Chevy) wants to heat up the pack first then allow full speed charging which will either heat up the pack faster or force cooling which seems a bit...wasteful.

Click to expand...

True high speed charging requires a warm/hot pack to avoid lithium battery plating in the summer. Even piddly CHAdeMO will cause battery plating in a cold battery.

As for energy waste, you are not thinking clearly. All packs reach high(ish) temperatures. Tesla sooner, LEAF towards the end. The difference is that Tesla *cools* the pack afterwards and the LEAF does not. Some of the Tesla heat from the battery comes from running the motor inefficiently but that is a minor contribution -- IIRC on the order of 0.5 kWh

The 'charge hot, cool quickly' approach is brilliant. Not only does it enable truly fast charging, it preserves battery health. That preservation of battery health is not only money in your pocket, it is environmentally sound. Consider the embodied energy wasted by LEAFs that have short lifetimes due to battery degradation.

Click to expand...

Not sure I can say the LEAF has true high speed charging most of the time. Before EA throttled chademo, I was getting just over 1C but now nowhere near that. That barely qualifies as "medium" charging in my book. With the range I have, it has been easy to charge only the bottom half to 2/3rds of the pack keeping batt temps below 100º

Road trips will be different of course but in the few I have done (mostly in cooler weather) the heating hasn't been miinor compared to previous packs.