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Marktm

Well-known member
Leaf Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2016
Messages
854
Location
Houston, TX
My 2012 Leaf has been a great "suburban" vehicle. Easily gets me around the neighborhood, in to town (Houston) and back and forth to work. Battery is down to about 51 amp-hrs, so has degraded, but still Ok for all EXCEPT a trip to a rural piece of property.
This property is little less than 100 miles away with half of it freeway driving (65 mph - all flat as a fritter). Plenty of charging time at the property, so only one way is necessary. Never need the heater, but will need A/C (minimal).

My preference is to trade my Leaf for another one that can consistently make the rural trip - and do it hopefully for 3-4 years before it degrades! I'd like to keep costs to a minimum, so the older body style is actually preferred - however the 30 kWh battery may be short on energy - especially if it degrades? I am not ready to lay out the big bucks for a brand new EV - too many options that appear to coming up in a couple of years.

BTW, range anxiety is not an issue for me - used to planning trips with the help of LeafSpy (knowing if I need to stop and do a minimal charge). I've actually made the trip - with a 4 hour stop at the local dealer half way - 3.3kW charger :mrgreen:

Any advice is appreciated.
 
That trip sounds like a stretch for a 30 kWh LEAF.

I would suggest at least a 40 kWh, as Leftie mentioned. A preowned Chevy Bolt can also be a good value for something with more capacity (60 kWh).
 
Another option would be to install a 40 kWh battery in your existing Leaf. Since you seem low maintenance and don't mind the older body style and won't use heat, that could be a cheaper option.

The problem is finding a used 40 kWh battery pack and getting someone to install it and the muxsan can adapter. Depends on how much you want to roll your sleeves up.
 
Lothsahn said:
Another option would be to install a 40 kWh battery in your existing Leaf. Since you seem low maintenance and don't mind the older body style and won't use heat, that could be a cheaper option.

The problem is finding a used 40 kWh battery pack and getting someone to install it and the muxsan can adapter. Depends on how much you want to roll your sleeves up.

Would really like to try that, but really not equipped to do it safely. :( Maybe If a local shop was into this, I'd give it a try with them - especially if the CAN programming tools can unlock the CHAdeMO bidirectional protocols - anticipating the WallBox coming to the US!
 
It's hard to find a shop to help, they are terrified of the leaf battery when I tell them what it is. I describe it as a pickup or suv sized fuel tank full of wet sand and the 62kwh battery as a 44 gallon ford expedition fuel tank full of wet sand.
(It's really a lot heavier than that)
I guess most people think electric vehicle batteries are tiny like hybrid batteries that fit in the spare tire hole.
 
Found a local 2016 SV loaded with what appears to be 11 bars asking around $11,000. I realize that I would need to do some charging along the way to make the ~100 miles, but spending an hour or two at a charging station should do it with the 6.6kW on-board charger (great upgrade from my current 2012!). I'd sort of like the challenge of making it using back country roads :lol:. I would sell my 2012 with it's 52 ahr battery.

So.... What would you guys (gals) consider good prices for both vehicles? Mine is in excellent condition with super nice 17" rims - I'd need to check out the 2016, but appears to be excellent also - and use my LeafSpy to confirm the battery condition. I would also (hopefully) determine if a replacement battery might be possible (hot South TX area). I know this works against making the ~100 mile trip, but I'm real flexible on making a charging stop - have several options on that.

Any recent actual pricing? THX!
 
Prices vary a lot around the country. You can search the Denver and surrounding area CL's for an idea of what used Leaf's go for around here. Also keep in mind that the 2016 SV might be subject to the 'BMS firmware update'. Check to see if that has been done since it can make a big difference in how the battery reports its SOH and it must be done before Nissan will honor any battery warranty claims.
 
Marktm said:
Found a local 2016 SV loaded with what appears to be 11 bars asking around $11,000. I realize that I would need to do some charging along the way to make the ~100 miles, but spending an hour or two at a charging station should do it with the 6.6kW on-board charger (great upgrade from my current 2012!). I'd sort of like the challenge of making it using back country roads :lol:. I would sell my 2012 with it's 52 ahr battery.

So.... What would you guys (gals) consider good prices for both vehicles? Mine is in excellent condition with super nice 17" rims - I'd need to check out the 2016, but appears to be excellent also - and use my LeafSpy to confirm the battery condition. I would also (hopefully) determine if a replacement battery might be possible (hot South TX area). I know this works against making the ~100 mile trip, but I'm real flexible on making a charging stop - have several options on that.

Any recent actual pricing? THX!

Not a great deal. The 2016 is only worth 8-9k used these days. If you can stretch a little, a 62 kWh 2019 can be had from some dealers (Colorado Springs, notably) for just about $20k after all taxes and refunds/rebates (provided you have $7500 in taxes to write off).
 
coleafrado said:
Not a great deal. The 2016 is only worth 8-9k used these days. If you can stretch a little, a 62 kWh 2019 can be had from some dealers (Colorado Springs, notably) for just about $20k after all taxes and refunds/rebates (provided you have $7500 in taxes to write off).

I was concerned that the "Blue book" of the 2016 was somewhat overpriced - especially since the 30kW battery seems problematic. OTOH, If it appears I could get a battery replacement based on degradation, that could be a consideration IF, they put in a new battery (40kW?). The vehicle does appear to be very good condition and is an SV with CHAdeMO and heat pump - and low mileage ~26,000.

Also, I do have another reason for upgrading as I need the bi-directional capabilities of the CHAdeMO - that my 2012 lacks.

I might make a low ball offer - and if it's accepted, it was meant to be.
 
coleafrado said:
Not a great deal. The 2016 is only worth 8-9k used these days. If you can stretch a little, a 62 kWh 2019 can be had from some dealers (Colorado Springs, notably) for just about $20k after all taxes and refunds/rebates (provided you have $7500 in taxes to write off).

I looked at the Leaf's in Colorado Springs and it looked like the really cheap ones didn't have the 'cold weather package', which is a no-brainer to get and a deal-killer if missing to me.
 
goldbrick said:
coleafrado said:
Not a great deal. The 2016 is only worth 8-9k used these days. If you can stretch a little, a 62 kWh 2019 can be had from some dealers (Colorado Springs, notably) for just about $20k after all taxes and refunds/rebates (provided you have $7500 in taxes to write off).

I looked at the Leaf's in Colorado Springs and it looked like the really cheap ones didn't have the 'cold weather package', which is a no-brainer to get and a deal-killer if missing to me.

Didn't notice that, but for somewhere like Texas it's probably not too big a deal :D
 
An update of an old post;

I missed the 2016 Leaf purchase - it was sold before I could make a "low ball" offer. At this point, I'm going to wait until the V2X technology settles down. Not sure when that will be, but I'll decide on a replacement EV at that time. With the Nissan Ariya going to CCS, I don't believe CHAdeMO will exist for long and any V2X implementation will likely be CCS (DC) or J-1772 (AC).
Also, to feel confident in taking the EV to my rural property, a 60 Plus kWh battery is really needed. V2H (backup) at this rural property is one of the ultimate goals anyway so the larger the battery the better.
 
Marktm said:
I missed the 2016 Leaf purchase - it was sold before I could make a "low ball" offer. At this point, I'm going to wait until the V2X technology settles down. Not sure when that will be, but I'll decide on a replacement EV at that time. With the Nissan Ariya going to CCS, I don't believe CHAdeMO will exist for long and any V2X implementation will likely be CCS (DC) or J-1772 (AC).
Also, to feel confident in taking the EV to my rural property, a 60 Plus kWh battery is really needed. V2H (backup) at this rural property is one of the ultimate goals anyway so the larger the battery the better.
V2X has been working on CHAdeMO cars for many years.

As for V2X on CCS, I don't know of any shipping vehicles in the US that support it. As for upcoming, I dunno. For V2X over J1772, is that even in the works?

I suspect if you are waiting for either of the above (CCS or J1772 route) and to "settle down", you will be waiting for many more years.

I can't speak to the accuracy of these dates but https://insideevs.com/news/342354/charin-ccs-combo-standard-to-offer-v2g-by-2025/ suggest it won't be until 2025 that CCS gets bidirectional charging. https://cleantechnica.com/2020/09/05/the-present-future-of-vehicle-to-grid-technology/ says
The Combined Charging System (CCS) does not currently enable V2G, although the body promoting CCS, CharIN, has a roadmap for implementing Vehicle to Home (V2H) and then V2G into the CCS standard by 2025. CharIN says that CCS with ISO 15118 is the key enabler of grid integration and readiness for V2G.

Even once the standard is finalized/published, it typically takes 4–5 years for products to come to the market, especially on the vehicle side, which has a longer planning/designing cycle.

There are many issues to overcome to achieve V2G, including grid capacity to handle and control Vehicle to Grid or Home (V2X) in a safe and secure way. This means a number of international standards must be agreed, then built into the communications hardware and software in the cars, the chargers and the grid.
You want to wait until at least 2029 or 2030?
 
cwerdna said:
You want to wait until at least 2029 or 2030?
I'm certainly hoping not, but if it takes installing the dcbel with CHAdeMO in the interim, I might go for it with a used Leaf (hopefully sometime next year). The WallBox Quasar is another option, but will be CHAdeMO based also and might be a challenge to setup for V2H. Of course SETEC has had a V2H unit for a couple of years - but again CHAdeMO based.
Will be interesting when/if Lucid (Air) provides V2G - and how they implement it (rumor is it's AC based - J-1772 or separate inverter - anyone??)
I do agree that CCS is a real challenge for V2X to be implemented in the near future - but this technology is rapidly evolving. What concerns me more is the "Fenix syndrome" of promises, promises :mrgreen:
 
Well; here's what I did;

$7500 donor battery 62kWh from 2019 Leaf

$1300 install (in California)

Total:
$ 8800

Did my first run the other day, California speeds of 75-85 mph and still had 90 miles left on battery after just under 80 miles. That was with surf racks on.

I'm sure over time, both of the prices will go down. Bought the Leaf for 3k earlier in the year with 6 bars....
 
jbsocdelica said:
Well; here's what I did;

$7500 donor battery 62kw from 2019 Leaf

$1300 install (in California)

Total:
$ 8800

Did my first run the other day, California speeds of 75-85 mph and still had 90 miles left on battery after just under 80 miles. That was with surf racks on.

I'm sure over time, both of the prices will go down. Bought the Leaf for 3k earlier in the year with 6 bars....

So basically you got the range of a new LEAF Plus for $12k all in. That's fantastic, well done!

I wish I could find a 62 kWh pack for $7500, very fortunate.

Did you get the rear suspension upgrade figured out?
 
jbsocdelica said:
Well; here's what I did;

$7500 donor battery 62kw from 2019 Leaf

$1300 install (in California)

Total:
$ 8800

Did my first run the other day, California speeds of 75-85 mph and still had 90 miles left on battery after just under 80 miles. That was with surf racks on.

I'm sure over time, both of the prices will go down. Bought the Leaf for 3k earlier in the year with 6 bars....
Not a bad deal. Battery capacity is measured in kWh, not "kw".
 
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