Nubo
Well-known member
Look at the bright side -- Tesla may get some automotive plants for cheap, and experienced workers, as they did with Nummi.
Nissan corporate news
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GaleHawkins
Well-known member
https://www.autonews.com/automake...fund-renault-cost-cutting-drive-report-says
March 10, 2020 07:31 AM 5 HOURS AGO
Nissan likely to leave venture fund with Renault in cost-cutting drive, report says
March 10, 2020 07:31 AM 5 HOURS AGO
Nissan likely to leave venture fund with Renault in cost-cutting drive, report says
cwerdna
Well-known member
Nissan pushes on with £400m investment in Sunderland plant despite Brexit fears
Japanese giant has warned its European business would be unsustainable if UK’s departure from UK leads to tariffs
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/nissan-sunderland-plant-brexit-qashqai-uk-car-maker-factory-a9383491.html
Japanese giant has warned its European business would be unsustainable if UK’s departure from UK leads to tariffs
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/nissan-sunderland-plant-brexit-qashqai-uk-car-maker-factory-a9383491.html
GaleHawkins
Well-known member
cwerdna said:
That is positive.
In Japan Nissan announced COVID-19 was expected to cause a 35% net profit decrease. Actually this is huge wild card for the entire EV market especially. Will vehicle makers reduce EV investments. Will buyers be shopping for EV or ICE vehicles.
Marketing campaign for EVs:
"Remember, you never have to go to the gas station. Just plug in in the safety of your own garage!"
"Remember, you never have to go to the gas station. Just plug in in the safety of your own garage!"
WetEV
Well-known member
NIO stock was up as they had good sales. Only a 12% decline, while many gas cars in China saw 80% sales declines.GaleHawkins said:
Oil and gasoline prices are likely to stay low for the next year or maybe two. Don't be short oil as the recovery is depending on politics (MBS vs Putin) as well as economics. Low prices are going to stop most new drilling, and wells deplete over time. So production capacity will fall. The longer prices are down, the more production capacity declines. The recovery could be violent and to new record prices. Bad time to buy hulking ICE. A good time to be preparing an EV for market.
Stock market just hit circuit breakers.
GRA
Well-known member
In a time of economic uncertainty car purchases get put on hold when possible (except by those people who can ignore the economy), so all car sales are going to take a dive, but 'affordable' BEVs are likely to be hurt a lot more. People who might have been willing to stretch a bit up front to hopefully gain savings long-term, won't be now.
GRA said:
The used EV market may get healthier as a result.
GRA
Well-known member
LeftieBiker said:
I doubt it. Used EVs are even more limited in capability than new ones, so why would people buy them now when income is likely to be uncertain? People will do what they did in the recession, and keep what they have, which is even easier now as cars last even longer than they did a decade ago.
GaleHawkins
Well-known member
GRA said:
Most people that I know can do just fine with current cars for another 3-10 years. We will just have to wait and see how much world governments put into auto bail outs like they did in 2008.
For run of the mill EV's I do not think it looks good for the folks that do not know if they will have a job long term. Tesla may be zinged for retires down a few hundred grand in their retirement accounts since the first of March or that they do not know if COVID-19 is going to take them out. Some people are not excited about putting $50K to $100K into a new car or pickup when they see their retirement accounts deflating due to things out of their control.
A
Anonymous
Guest
LeftieBiker said:
What does a healthier used EV market look like?
coleafrado said:
Selling prices near the book value, with adequate sales of vehicles.
GRA
Well-known member
GaleHawkins said:
Indeed. Along that line, via GCC:
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/03/20200313-bnef.html
Those numbers are for Jan.-Feb.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Renault (Nissan partnership still alive?) seemingly taking the lead on European EV sales in January - almost 10,000 of the new Zoe (with a 50 kWh pack) sold, versus around 3,200 Leafs and under 2,000 Teslas. Nearly 75,000 sold in total for a huge jump year-over-year.
https://news.yahoo.com/europe-electric-car-sales-surge-003327343.html
https://news.yahoo.com/europe-electric-car-sales-surge-003327343.html
palmermd
Well-known member
More automotive furloughs. I expect we'll see most every OEM report the same.
https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/04/07/nissan-to-furlough-10000-workers-in-mississippi-an.aspx
https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/04/07/nissan-to-furlough-10000-workers-in-mississippi-an.aspx
cwerdna
Well-known member
^^^
Indeed. The Big 3 had shutdowns (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/18/general-motors-ford-and-fiat-chrysler-to-close-all-us-factories-due-to-the-coronavirus-sources-say.html) but I'm not sure if they restarted yet.
I can't speak to the orders and lockdowns in all other areas, but in my county the order (https://www.sccgov.org/sites/phd/DiseaseInformation/novel-coronavirus/Pages/order-health-officer-033120.aspx) doesn't consider auto sales as "essential" so they have to shut down but it does allow "on-line purchase of automobiles if they are delivered to a residence or Essential Business".
But given the sudden huge spike in unemployment, even if the retail auto sales weren't prohibited, auto sales would still fall big time.
Indeed. The Big 3 had shutdowns (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/18/general-motors-ford-and-fiat-chrysler-to-close-all-us-factories-due-to-the-coronavirus-sources-say.html) but I'm not sure if they restarted yet.
I can't speak to the orders and lockdowns in all other areas, but in my county the order (https://www.sccgov.org/sites/phd/DiseaseInformation/novel-coronavirus/Pages/order-health-officer-033120.aspx) doesn't consider auto sales as "essential" so they have to shut down but it does allow "on-line purchase of automobiles if they are delivered to a residence or Essential Business".
But given the sudden huge spike in unemployment, even if the retail auto sales weren't prohibited, auto sales would still fall big time.
Yes, the remaining pool of buyers will consist mainly of bargain hunters and people who have no choice because their only vehicle has worn out or been crashed. I'm on the fence, but if it looks like a choice between moving up to an SV+ that I'd be willing to buy off-lease, or staying with my 40kwh SL as they stop making Leafs, I'll get the SV+.
frontrangeleaf
Well-known member
I'd like to see them keep the Leaf as a more affordable alternative to the next generation, but I'm not sure that's in the cards anymore. Might never have been given all their troubles.
By more affordable, I mean to reposition the SL+ to compete with the likes of the higher end Corolla and Mazda 3 hatchbacks, meaning near $30k plus or minus, after incentives. Depending on what VW does with their new line, the market could see some change around that price point. Nissan could then offer the bigger fancier eCUV for $35-45k. I don't see them commanding $40-50k for it ala Tesla. Other models to compete proportionately lower.
We paid just $27k before sales taxes and tags for our SL+ after incentives, which was roughly $10k cheaper than the Model 3 SR+ at the time, and between a similarly equipped Corolla and Mazda 3 hatchback, again after incentives/rebates before sales taxes and tags. So yes, we feel we got a lot of car for our money, and it was definitely competitive to similar conventional cars. Our Leaf drives rings around any Corolla I've ever been in, and I drive them with some frequency for business. Mazda 3 is the better comparison, definitely out handles the Leaf, but is no quicker.
I'm struck by how close they've come, and by how far they still have to go. Hopefully they find a way to survive.
Edit: Clarified that I'm talking about the SL+.
By more affordable, I mean to reposition the SL+ to compete with the likes of the higher end Corolla and Mazda 3 hatchbacks, meaning near $30k plus or minus, after incentives. Depending on what VW does with their new line, the market could see some change around that price point. Nissan could then offer the bigger fancier eCUV for $35-45k. I don't see them commanding $40-50k for it ala Tesla. Other models to compete proportionately lower.
We paid just $27k before sales taxes and tags for our SL+ after incentives, which was roughly $10k cheaper than the Model 3 SR+ at the time, and between a similarly equipped Corolla and Mazda 3 hatchback, again after incentives/rebates before sales taxes and tags. So yes, we feel we got a lot of car for our money, and it was definitely competitive to similar conventional cars. Our Leaf drives rings around any Corolla I've ever been in, and I drive them with some frequency for business. Mazda 3 is the better comparison, definitely out handles the Leaf, but is no quicker.
I'm struck by how close they've come, and by how far they still have to go. Hopefully they find a way to survive.
Edit: Clarified that I'm talking about the SL+.
cwerdna
Well-known member
I'm confused by this. MSRP has been starting around $30K before $7500 Federal tax credit and nobody has been paying MSRP for ages.frontrangeleaf said:
https://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/30/2011-nissan-leaf-us-pricing-officially-announced-as-low-as-25/
https://usa.nissannews.com/en-US/releases/release-698a9e429ae04602b683514427ca41ba-us-2013-nissan-leaf-press-kit - click on Pricing
https://usa.nissannews.com/en-US/releases/release-cd883a0f5a68436dbad02f6c019c23aa-2018-nissan-leaf-offers-more-range-content-and-technology-for-lower-msrp-than-previous-generation-design
https://usa.nissannews.com/en-US/releases/release-bc5df8c40e6e686b4db9c27c7b039811-nissan-announces-us-pricing-for-2020-leaf-offering-nissan-safety-shield-360-standard-and-a-new-ev-sound
And, some parts of the US have some state/regional incentives (e.g. CA's CVRP which was (IIRC) $5000 for a small amount of time, then $2500 for ages then $2000).
I think that an SL+ (or loaded SV+) for $35k is a good deal, and an S+ for under $30k is competitive. Asking for big price cuts below that as a matter of future policy doesn't seem reasonable to me. They can keep the S40 and SV40 for well under $30k to compete with commuter cars. The Leaf doesn't generally compete directly with the Model 3 because of the big difference in comfort and performance - they are apples and oranges when it comes to real world car buying/leasing decisions.