40 kw-hr battery in 2016 leaf

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GaleHawkins said:
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/01/26/2018-nissan-leaf-60000-mile-update/
2018 Nissan LEAF: 60,000 Mile Update

This was the first year of the 40 kWh Nissan Leaf and the first report on State Of Health I have seen. After 40K miles the SOH was reported to be 92.5% capacity and at 60K miles SOC was at 86.8%. Being in the southwest the temperatures were on the hot side.

"Fast charging was also used regularly, so there were many times when the battery pack’s temperature got quite hot." I wish 'quite hot' had been defined with the Temp reading from LSP.

Well at least we have some SOH data on the 40 kWh Nissan Leaf battery pack. A loss of 7.5% in the first 40K miles and another 5.7% from 40K to 60K miles in a n=1 case shows rate of %of loss ratio did increase which is not I was hoping to see.

At this time I do not plan to do any fast charging and if I do it will just be enough to get home. My goal is to keep the battery at or below 100F if possible and charge at night when air temps should be below 80F. Upper 90's are typically max and only for a few weeks.

With the 33% larger battery when it gets to 8 bars again we should still have a range of 107 miles which was all the car had new per specs in the manual. Keeping it out of an accident is my most important concern on many levels.

When she was in Phoenix, she was doing Uber so was charging to 100% every "afternoon" to drive at night. She had no garage so her pack literally is a baseline for worst case scenarios for heat and SOC.

BUT...

Her stats were not that much worse than people elsewhere in the World in MUCH milder climates. I do know someone who is probably nearing that 60,000 mile mark. I will reach out to see where he is at. He probably checks his battery stats a few times a year... if that.
 
Regen is awesome with the new 40 kWh battery in our 2016 Leaf. We get one green dot when at 100% charge going down the first hill 1/2 mile after leaving our charging spot. Regen pops to the 30 kWa level quicker and more often now, I never tested it with the old battery but I can get one green down when going down the hill by my house backwards.
 
GaleHawkins said:
Regen is awesome with the new 40 kWh battery in our 2016 Leaf. We get one green dot when at 100% charge going down the first hill 1/2 mile after leaving our charging spot. Regen pops to the 30 kWa level quicker and more often now, I never tested it with the old battery but I can get one green down when going down the hill by my house backwards.
30 KWH Leafs with the BMS update do the same thing. A warm battery now will regen at 99% and hit 3 bubbles by 95%. When the battery is cold, it takes a little longer but it's still much improved.
 
johnlocke said:
GaleHawkins said:
Regen is awesome with the new 40 kWh battery in our 2016 Leaf. We get one green dot when at 100% charge going down the first hill 1/2 mile after leaving our charging spot. Regen pops to the 30 kWa level quicker and more often now, I never tested it with the old battery but I can get one green down when going down the hill by my house backwards.
30 KWH Leafs with the BMS update do the same thing. A warm battery now will regen at 99% and hit 3 bubbles by 95%. When the battery is cold, it takes a little longer but it's still much improved.

Our 30 had to get down to close to 90% to Regen unless the battery pack temperature was at 9-10 bars.
 
GaleHawkins said:
Regen is awesome with the new 40 kWh battery in our 2016 Leaf. We get one green dot when at 100% charge going down the first hill 1/2 mile after leaving our charging spot. Regen pops to the 30 kWa level quicker and more often now, I never tested it with the old battery but I can get one green down when going down the hill by my house backwards.

Great to hear that. Could you please check the LBC and the Motor Control software number with LeafSpy Pro? Maybe it has also been updated to regen more.
 
bkvszomorito said:
GaleHawkins said:
Regen is awesome with the new 40 kWh battery in our 2016 Leaf. We get one green dot when at 100% charge going down the first hill 1/2 mile after leaving our charging spot. Regen pops to the 30 kWa level quicker and more often now, I never tested it with the old battery but I can get one green down when going down the hill by my house backwards.

Great to hear that. Could you please check the LBC and the Motor Control software number with LeafSpy Pro? Maybe it has also been updated to regen more.

OK. What screen would I find that info?

From my understanding they did a swap out so it would have had a new LBC.
 
bkvszomorito said:
GaleHawkins said:
Regen is awesome with the new 40 kWh battery in our 2016 Leaf. We get one green dot when at 100% charge going down the first hill 1/2 mile after leaving our charging spot. Regen pops to the 30 kWa level quicker and more often now, I never tested it with the old battery but I can get one green down when going down the hill by my house backwards.

Great to hear that. Could you please check the LBC and the Motor Control software number with LeafSpy Pro? Maybe it has also been updated to regen more.

There is more regen with 40 kwh pack at higher SOC. I saw 12 KW with SOC at 98% on my 40 kwh
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
bkvszomorito said:
GaleHawkins said:
Regen is awesome with the new 40 kWh battery in our 2016 Leaf. We get one green dot when at 100% charge going down the first hill 1/2 mile after leaving our charging spot. Regen pops to the 30 kWa level quicker and more often now, I never tested it with the old battery but I can get one green down when going down the hill by my house backwards.

Great to hear that. Could you please check the LBC and the Motor Control software number with LeafSpy Pro? Maybe it has also been updated to regen more.

There is more regen with 40 kwh pack at higher SOC. I saw 12 KW with SOC at 98% on my 40 kwh

Our 9 bar SOH former 30 kWh battery would give us 4 green Regen dots pulling out of Walmart after charging when when the battery pack temp were around 100F. Telsa preheats their battery packs for the fastest charge rate I have read.
 
GaleHawkins said:
bkvszomorito said:
GaleHawkins said:
Regen is awesome with the new 40 kWh battery in our 2016 Leaf. We get one green dot when at 100% charge going down the first hill 1/2 mile after leaving our charging spot. Regen pops to the 30 kWa level quicker and more often now, I never tested it with the old battery but I can get one green down when going down the hill by my house backwards.

Great to hear that. Could you please check the LBC and the Motor Control software number with LeafSpy Pro? Maybe it has also been updated to regen more.

OK. What screen would I find that info?

From my understanding they did a swap out so it would have had a new LBC.

Service screen (you have to enable in settings) and there Read ECU versions should be selected.
 
Just wondering if anyone in Canada has gotten a 30kWh to 40kWh warranty replacement done.

Let us know,
Mike
 
michelb said:
Just wondering if anyone in Canada has gotten a 30kWh to 40kWh warranty replacement done.

Let us know,
Mike

That would be good info to know to see their commitment to the 30 kWh customers. Two have been replaced and a third one is a work in progress state side I believe from posts here but I am sure many Leaf owners do not log on here.

Based on one month SOH numbers after getting our 40 kWh replacement it looks like we are set to drop 4.5% SOH yearly but that is not set in stone at all. Temps have ranged from 14F to 66F for the last month. If the loss will not go over 5% yearly our SOH should still be 75% five years from now. Staying out of an accident that totals our 2016 SL Leaf is of more concern that this rate of battery loss of SOH.

Before COVID-19 became the NEWS in May Nissan was going to present their plan to save the company by stating which factories would stay and which ones will be sold or closed. The extra 35% net profit drop they now expect due to COVID-19 will just be one more wild card.

As long at the 30 to 40 kWh battery swaps keep happening would be positive in my mind but the 30 days of deciding to replace our 8 bar battery AFTER they confirmed we had a valid claim still concerns me especially since the Nissan battery source was just a little over 100 miles up the road in our case.

While our 30 kWh SOH average drop 12% a year was really bad I had hoped the 40 kWh battery offered better technology but at this point I expect it just is more of the same. One plus of the 33% larger battery is it requires fewer charging cycles to go the same distance which is a plus and the 107 HP motor rating may draw less current rate that the 40 kWh battery and 147 HP set up in the 2020 Leaf.
 
GaleHawkins said:
michelb said:
Just wondering if anyone in Canada has gotten a 30kWh to 40kWh warranty replacement done.

Let us know,
Mike

That would be good info to know to see their commitment to the 30 kWh customers. Two have been replaced and a third one is a work in progress state side I believe from posts here but I am sure many Leaf owners do not log on here.

Based on one month SOH numbers after getting our 40 kWh replacement it looks like we are set to drop 4.5% SOH yearly but that is not set in stone at all. Temps have ranged from 14F to 66F for the last month. If the loss will not go over 5% yearly our SOH should still be 75% five years from now. Staying out of an accident that totals our 2016 SL Leaf is of more concern that this rate of battery loss of SOH.

Before COVID-19 became the NEWS in May Nissan was going to present their plan to save the company by stating which factories would stay and which ones will be sold or closed. The extra 35% net profit drop they now expect due to COVID-19 will just be one more wild card.

As long at the 30 to 40 kWh battery swaps keep happening would be positive in my mind but the 30 days of deciding to replace our 8 bar battery AFTER they confirmed we had a valid claim still concerns me especially since the Nissan battery source was just a little over 100 miles up the road in our case.

While our 30 kWh SOH average drop 12% a year was really bad I had hoped the 40 kWh battery offered better technology but at this point I expect it just is more of the same. One plus of the 33% larger battery is it requires fewer charging cycles to go the same distance which is a plus and the 107 HP motor rating may draw less current rate that the 40 kWh battery and 147 HP set up in the 2020 Leaf.

I see your 4.5% and raise you to 6.5%
 
I am so thankful they got my 2016 Leaf back to me before this COVID-19 outbreak hit our area. The range is great and being able to stay out of gas stations is even greater. Charging at home is so nice. Yes the new battery SOH is faster than I had hoped for but thankfully it did start out at 99.87% and based on winter time experience the annual rate of decline is 4.5%. The 30 kWh battery died at the annual rate of 12% .
 
GaleHawkins said:
I am so thankful they got my 2016 Leaf back to me before this COVID-19 outbreak hit our area. The range is great and being able to stay out of gas stations is even greater. Charging at home is so nice. Yes the new battery SOH is faster than I had hoped for but thankfully it did start out at 99.87% and based on winter time experience the annual rate of decline is 4.5%. The 30 kWh battery died at the annual rate of 12% .

I think the data our there so far indicates the 40 kWh is an improvement over the 30 kWh batteries. There have been reports of some 18 MY units nearing 60,000 miles without even one bar lost. I think by the end of 2020 we'll see for sure if the degradation rate of the earliest 40 kWh batteries are good or bad or similar to other generations.

My personal 18 MY unit, is now at around 92 pct SOH, with no impact on range. This is after 13,000 miles, and 1.5 yrs since it was put in service.
 
jdcbomb said:
GaleHawkins said:
I am so thankful they got my 2016 Leaf back to me before this COVID-19 outbreak hit our area. The range is great and being able to stay out of gas stations is even greater. Charging at home is so nice. Yes the new battery SOH is faster than I had hoped for but thankfully it did start out at 99.87% and based on winter time experience the annual rate of decline is 4.5%. The 30 kWh battery died at the annual rate of 12% .

I think the data our there so far indicates the 40 kWh is an improvement over the 30 kWh batteries. There have been reports of some 18 MY units nearing 60,000 miles without even one bar lost. I think by the end of 2020 we'll see for sure if the degradation rate of the earliest 40 kWh batteries are good or bad or similar to other generations.

My personal 18 MY unit, is now at around 92 pct SOH, with no impact on range. This is after 13,000 miles, and 1.5 yrs since it was put in service.

One bar is a 15% loss. Of course our 30 kWa was down to 64% SOH after 38 months and 22K miles but I did not know its history.

I would be OK with 2-3% loss a year but now with Nissan on the ropes I do not foresee them coming with leading edge quality batteries in the future.

Does anyone know if Nissan in the USA has replaced any EV batteries during March?
 
GaleHawkins said:
I am so thankful they got my 2016 Leaf back to me before this COVID-19 outbreak hit our area. The range is great and being able to stay out of gas stations is even greater. Charging at home is so nice. Yes the new battery SOH is faster than I had hoped for but thankfully it did start out at 99.87% and based on winter time experience the annual rate of decline is 4.5%. The 30 kWh battery died at the annual rate of 12% .

Yeah I have to call that false news. You didn't get the update or "something"

On the 40 kwh, I lost 7% the first year and well less than one percent for the next 9 months so expect your degradation rate to likely slow down. Now I was practicing SOC control in that I only had 15ish (don't remember right now) full charge events with well over half of them in the first few months of ownership. Don't know if that played a part or not
 
Yeah I have to call that false news. You didn't get the update or "something"

The 30kwh pack is unusual, in that you can treat three different ones exactly the same way, and have one retain capacity like a Lizard pack, one lose bars that are then fully, genuinely restored by the BMS update, and have the third lose actual capacity at the rate that Gale saw, despite the update. There is definitely a build or materials quality issue at work.
 
GaleHawkins said:
One bar is a 15% loss. Of course our 30 kWa was down to 64% SOH after 38 months and 22K miles but I did not know its history.

My 2012 LEAF with a 24 kWh pack has gone 85k miles over about 100 months and only recently passed the 65% SOH mark. The same loss in a third of the time and a quarter the mileage is pretty bad!
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
On the 40 kwh, I lost 7% the first year and well less than one percent for the next 9 months so expect your degradation rate to likely slow down. Now I was practicing SOC control in that I only had 15ish (don't remember right now) full charge events with well over half of them in the first few months of ownership. Don't know if that played a part or not

For my situation, I took full advantage of the Nissan No Charge to Charge (NCTC) program. Since I bought the vehicle in 2018 DEC, I have fast charged at least once a week, even during the summer. At last count, I believe LS showed close to 90 DC FC. My max range definitely still around 160+ miles fully charged (75 F ambient) and the degradation appears identical to yours and many other 18 MY units regardless of their charging behavior.
 
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