danrjones
Well-known member
DougWantsALeaf said:
No, it cant be, because that web page clearly says more range than ever.
Isn't that false advertising?
The 40KWH Battery Topic
- Thread starter LeftieBiker
- Start date
Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
No, it cant be, because that web page clearly says more range than ever.
Isn't that false advertising?
cwerdna
Well-known member
LOL! Good catch. I don't normally look at those product pages closely.danrjones said:
I wonder if there was some required test procedure change or some equipment change that forced it to drop. https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=40812&id=39860 doesn't have 2020 Leafs yet but it did go down to 150 miles on 2019 from 151 on 2018.
Sometime after 2007, there were some revisions that caused some vehicles (around model year 2010 or 2011) to have to be de-rated. Example is that the 2011 Prius was unchanged from 2010 yet it got reduced to 48 mpg combined from 50: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=40812&id=39860&id=26425&id=30919 and you can even view the original EPA mpg rating.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
cwerdna said:
Sounds like some "backtrack calculating" to me. How is it that we see a difference in EPA in model trims starting in 2019 but nothing in previous years? Just a recalculation to a different reality is all I see here.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
DougWantsALeaf said:
Yeah, that is a "bit" of an understatement. Despite what some claim, in my battery plant tour, the engineers there said that they were constantly working to improve chemistry of the packs so saying the 2018 40 kwh cells and the 2019 62 kwh cells are "exactly" the same is something I have ZERO confidence in.
I hesitate to present VERY early data comparisons but if we look at the first 3,000 miles of each car;
2018; 2/16/18 - 3/27/18; 2990.7 miles. Projected SOH@ 100,000 miles; 85.28%
2019; 11/16/19 - 1/23/20; 3058.7 miles; Projected SOH@ 100,000 miles; 96.52%
Observations; 2018 obviously had miles piled on quicker as I was still at previous job at the time and it was Winter transitioning to Spring. 2019 was Fall transitioning to Winter. I don't remember any real weather extremes during that time but don't track that stuff so who knows? Temps likely not extremely different. Although driving a lot more, I was generally only DCing once, sometimes twice a day.
I think the real takeaway is all things being equal; a larger pack can take the same level of "stress" much easier.
**Edit** Spoke too soon. Pack lost a chunk today. Still over 99% SOH (barely at 99.02) but with 2/3rds % lost during the day, the projection is now a rather mundane 84% @ 100 K miles. Oh well. It was good while it lasted.
goldbrick
Well-known member
I agree that there probably are continuous, subtle improvements being made to the battery materials and manufacturing processes. That is a basic part of most manufacturing operations I would believe these days. That is how it is done in my industry and while some very large, OEM customers are kept apprised of the major changes, smaller changes are done without notice. Smaller customers (and end users) are never notified.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
goldbrick said:
That and history of Nissan's informational stream. They have simply put out many new things with little or no fanfare. In many cases, we found out new things from techs, not Nissan at all.
sbuhler
Member
Just wanted to update with my stats in southern Louisiana
2018 SV, build 8/18, purchased 9/18.
10/6/18 - Odo - 571 mi, AHr - 114.02, SOH 98.77%, Hx - 102.92%
06/16/19 - Odo - 7125 mi, AHr - 109.84, SOH 95.15%, Hx-111.41%
01/26/20 - Odo - 12394 mi, AHr - 107.89, SOH 93.46%, Hx-101.16%
2018 SV, build 8/18, purchased 9/18.
10/6/18 - Odo - 571 mi, AHr - 114.02, SOH 98.77%, Hx - 102.92%
06/16/19 - Odo - 7125 mi, AHr - 109.84, SOH 95.15%, Hx-111.41%
01/26/20 - Odo - 12394 mi, AHr - 107.89, SOH 93.46%, Hx-101.16%
DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
Thanks for posting. To you feel much of a range difference from the first 6 months?
sbuhler
Member
About the same range; don't notice any difference.
rogersleaf
Well-known member
rogersleaf said:
At 10 months and 20,000 miles
LS stats:
AHr... 108.66
SOH... 94.13%
Hx... 121.84%
SOC... 98.2% and 471 GID
402.42v, cells balanced between 4.190-4.192v
odo... 20196
14 QC / 524 L2’s
Main difference in charging behavior and usage is due to cold weather. The car is getting charged to 100% daily using the timers so that charging completes about an hour before needing to leave on my commute. Then, the car's pre-heat timer is set so it's warm when leaving. Most nights the car is inside an attached garage.
lukep
Member
From LeafSpy on my 8 month old 2019 S:
Miles: 4661
SOH: 94.38%
Hx: 110.27
AHr: 108.95
Range took a big hit this winter - 3.3 miles/kWH down from 4.5 in the summer.
Miles: 4661
SOH: 94.38%
Hx: 110.27
AHr: 108.95
Range took a big hit this winter - 3.3 miles/kWH down from 4.5 in the summer.
Tortoisehead77
Well-known member
lukep said:
You're lucky, I don't get 3.3 miles/kWH in the winter even if I leave the heat off. It's a similar climate here in Portland as Bellevue.
I've considered increasing my tire pressure, but 40 psi is the max on my new tires and I don't want to exceed that.
No heat pump, then? The last thing you can try is using partial/automatic Recirculate. You press the recirculate button while it's engaged (light is lit) and release it as the light flashes. It will flash twice. If the "Fresh Air" message doesn't light but the light goes off, you are in the Super Secret (but buried in the manual) Auto Recirculate mode, with 70% fresh air and 30% recirculated air. In pre-'18 Leafs this mode is only enabled, along with Recirculate, in Floor Only and High/Low vent modes. In '18+ Leafs you can also use it with Floor/Defrost mode.
lukep
Member
I’ve been using the charge timer to heat the battery on especially cold mornings which I think helps.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
Tortoisehead77 said:
Being in the middle of you two, its possible to do better. Its all about driving style, traffic and prep. We have a minimal amount of climate control needed to keep the glass clean but maintaining the glass beforehand will cut down on a lot of that power demand. Anti Fog (the interior Rain X) is a good option. I also have a glass wiper on a 30 inch handle (shorter works if you have long arms!) which comes in handy on those days when there is a large temperature variation during the day causing excessive water deposits on the interior glass.
In my less than efficient E Plus, I am just under 4.0 miles/kwh while my 40 kwh was just over during Winter. I rarely drive the speed limit any more (range has its privileges
) so not going over the top to excel although I still don't use heat unless I need it and that is uncommon. But I do take advantage of situations to drive efficiently AKA rolling slowly up to traffic, etc. As far as your max tire pressures? Should be 44. Both the Michilins and Ecopias. I recommend being at or near the max. Right now I am at 42. Close enough.
DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
Agreed! Stay close to 44. I think Leaf could get 5-10 more epa miles if they tested at the max tire pressure.
Dave, I am impressed you are still over 99%!
Dave, I am impressed you are still over 99%!
Tortoisehead77
Well-known member
LeftieBiker said:
Thanks, I will try it. Good suggestion!
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
DougWantsALeaf said:
Had my first adjustment. went from 99.6 to 98.25!
HerdingElectrons
Well-known member
As an anecdotal observation even though my LS Pro SOH is currently 92.93% after 23K miles & 16 months of use I don't notice any range reduction that impacts my daily needs. In fact I typically only charge to 60-70% in an effort to prolong the packs SOH because 98% of the time I typically only use 20-50% of the packs capacity/range on a given day.
However I have noticed a SUBSTANTIAL drop in how low the SOC has to get to have full Regen available. When the car was new I would have all 18 Regen segments on the dash display once the SOC dropped to 80-79%. The minimum SOC when all 18 segments are available has steadily gone down over the past 16 months. Now when at 79% SOC there's about 6 segments unavailable & the car needs to get to around 72-73%SOC before all 18 are available.
I'm aware temperature will affect this but my observations are when the dash indicated "temp" bar is more than 33% to 50%. When the temp bar is less than 33% & especially less than 25% there's a temporary additional reducing until the pack temperature is high enough to handle the regen amperage.
However I have noticed a SUBSTANTIAL drop in how low the SOC has to get to have full Regen available. When the car was new I would have all 18 Regen segments on the dash display once the SOC dropped to 80-79%. The minimum SOC when all 18 segments are available has steadily gone down over the past 16 months. Now when at 79% SOC there's about 6 segments unavailable & the car needs to get to around 72-73%SOC before all 18 are available.
I'm aware temperature will affect this but my observations are when the dash indicated "temp" bar is more than 33% to 50%. When the temp bar is less than 33% & especially less than 25% there's a temporary additional reducing until the pack temperature is high enough to handle the regen amperage.
A
Anonymous
Guest
HerdingElectrons said:
Remember that the temperature bar on the dash isn't a full picture of what the pack temperature sensors sense - it's just a maximum/average value. If any part of the pack is too cold, it'll limit regen.
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