2019 Leaf battery overheating

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For the folks here complaining about Leaf DC FCing slowing down as the battery got too hot and me bringing up thermal management on Bolt, I just learned the guy I posted at https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=575995#p575995 did the "Cannonball Run" in a Bolt across the US in about 79 hours. He most definitely did multiple DC FCs in a day.
 
Yup. Until Nissan adds active thermal management to the battery all need to know one L3 charge per day is a practical maximum.

Perfect for travelling about 1.5 to 2x the actual range per day. Very limited beyond that. That's just the way it is by design. Nothing is wrong with the vehicle.
 
smkettner said:
Yup. Until Nissan adds active thermal management to the battery all need to know one L3 charge per day is a practical maximum.

Perfect for travelling about 1.5 to 2x the actual range per day. Very limited beyond that. That's just the way it is by design. Nothing is wrong with the vehicle.

I tend to agree. Our longest day on our regular road trip is exactly 554 km. Should be a good fit for the Eplus. Not so much for our 2016 SV but we do it. The chihuahua and I need to pee often anyway. 😜
 
I have found that multiple L3 charges in one day only adds about 15-20 minutes to the total time for all three charge sessions compared to doing just one session per day.
 
webeleafowners said:
smkettner said:
Yup. Until Nissan adds active thermal management to the battery all need to know one L3 charge per day is a practical maximum.

Perfect for travelling about 1.5 to 2x the actual range per day. Very limited beyond that. That's just the way it is by design. Nothing is wrong with the vehicle.

I tend to agree. Our longest day on our regular road trip is exactly 554 km. Should be a good fit for the Eplus. Not so much for our 2016 SV but we do it. The chihuahua and I need to pee often anyway. 😜

I did that distance and stopped to charge several times for 20 - 25 minutes. The E Plus "seems" to shed heat better but will need to do some Summer driving to know for sure. I will say the BMS is completely different than my 40 kwh LEAF. Nearly everything is different in how the car charges during various conditions.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
webeleafowners said:
smkettner said:
Yup. Until Nissan adds active thermal management to the battery all need to know one L3 charge per day is a practical maximum.

Perfect for travelling about 1.5 to 2x the actual range per day. Very limited beyond that. That's just the way it is by design. Nothing is wrong with the vehicle.

I tend to agree. Our longest day on our regular road trip is exactly 554 km. Should be a good fit for the Eplus. Not so much for our 2016 SV but we do it. The chihuahua and I need to pee often anyway. 😜

I did that distance and stopped to charge several times for 20 - 25 minutes. The E Plus "seems" to shed heat better but will need to do some Summer driving to know for sure. I will say the BMS is completely different than my 40 kwh LEAF. Nearly everything is different in how the car charges during various conditions.

Typical day for us when we used the grand Cherokee was a 15 to 20 minute morning coffee, walk and pee brake, a half hour lunch and a 15 minute afternoon break. There is lots of charging opportunities along the way. We’ll charge during all our breaks. We tend to set the cruise at about 105 kmh.
 
OK, so I figured I should let you guys know what i've been doing in the meantime.
Sorry for being offline for so long. Life...

In short, we leased a Model 3. Dual Motor, Long Range (75kWh)
I still have my leaf (2y lease ends May 2021) but we sold our Prius and now we are 100% gas-free.

The Tesla came on Dec 19. This goes off-topic but I love it.

So the formula is simple. Leaf cannot be counted on for longer trips due to the lack of thermal management. But it's a pleasant vehicle to drive for decent distances around the residence. I know that if I have to DC charge I am opening myself to frustration as I never know how long it will take me. So i plan to not have to.

Tesla on the other hand has no problem whatsoever with long hauls. I had to pick-up my girls from EWR and JFK before Christmas and all went super smooth. The trip to EWR and back, i did without Supercharging. Going to JFK, I had to Supercharge while waiting for her to clear customs. Charging at 90 kW is a breeze. It can do 150 kW but I never experienced that. Whatever...

At home I use the same Siemens wall unit I used since my first Leaf. It delivers 30 A which is not the max Tesla can take (48A) but i find it sufficient. Not having to table 500$+ install for the Tesla wall unit makes me happy. FYI the model 3 comes with a little adapter to a SAE J1772 plug so i was ready to charge from the moment we brought it home.

Besides that, you have no idea how 170W/kg feels in comparison to only 70W/kg for the Leaf. Woosh!

Open for questions if anyone has any...
 
As many of you are aware, I traded in my 2018 Leaf in for a 2019 Niro EV. I thought I might share with you one day in the life of my Niro EV. Last December I traveled by interstate from Socorro, NM to Fort Worth, TX in one day.

The total distance was 808 miles and I traveled the speed limit the whole way except for the first leg. The first leg was 201 miles and the temperature was below freezing so I kept my speed to 60 mph. I made six consecutive CCS fast charging stops, I typically charged from 10% to 60% and my charging rate always peaked out at about 75 kW after the battery warmed up.

This would have been a challenging day even in a gas car but there wasn't a hint of the Niro EV traction battery getting hot. The Niro EV is definitely living up to it's billing. I have no regrets for abandoning my one year old Nissan Leaf and going with the Niro EV.
 
Thanks for the Niro report.

We sat in the Niro finally today. The storage was a bit less than I thought it would be watching the online videos. Leaf is definirme still bigger. I do like the fact it has rear vents. Interior volume had both some pluses and minuses (remember we jam 3 large kids in the back).

Hoping we will start getting some battery longevity/degradation from the Kona/Niro soon as this was a new pack for Kia last year. Hoping we will as well get the Niro in the Midwest by end of this year.
 
Just want to make sure you know the cold weather package gives rear floor vents. We don't want an SUV but cargo room is important (kid crap), so the LEAF does well there. It is still winter but I have not had big heating issues doing fast charging in the plus so no real road trip issues and EA feeds me in the 70s very similar to the Niro but cheaper being Chademo (Niro tends to get charged one tier up). Summer we'll have to see how the plus does in my climate, that lack of thermal management may get me. I've done 1100 miles in one day a gasser (prius) a number of times, sometimes we swap drivers after 6 or 8 hours. A LEAF could not pull that off even if it was all EA feeding 75-77kw all the way. I don't really plan to do that trip any more (relatives there are no longer with us) but two fast charges in the day via interstate (high speed) is no problem in the winter. In the winter I see no sign of any heat issues.
 
I have done over 500 in a day with our Leaf Plus, but not had any the need to do anything longer. 1000 miles in a long day would be quite the challenge, even with two drivers, given the mental fatigue.

I haven’t had any particular thermal issues in summer yet, even with multiple DCFCs, but it is rarely above the mid 90s here and never that hot at night. Winter is a complete non-issue.

I do agree that the Leaf Plus, at least right now, gets the cheap EA power award with 75-77 peak charging rate and .21/.25 per minute costs in IL, though with NCTC, I will generally opt for the free 40KW power from EVGO over paying for it (with exception of some science experiments).

I want to like Niro more given the slightly better range, and similar listed price (though discounts still favor Leaf a bit I think), but finding it hard.

Quick question. How much do you use the paddles? In concept i like them as it would make freeway coasting easier with regen quickly available. In practice do you find that to be the case?
 
In Colorado our largest energy provider (Xcel) gives rebates for Nissan Leaf and Mitsubishi Outlander, ONLY. Very strange.

Yes over a thousand miles in a day which is a good 17 hours driving is not easy. We used to do it most years to visit family and just pushed through. Last did it in 2012, 4 times in one week! )there back, there, back. But i was driving people who could/would not fly to go see family on their way out. It is not safe, there is a reason truck drivers have hour restrictions. Never again. I will still do 6 or 7 hours at a time though for a trip.

I have my fingers crossed we Leaf plus drivers do better with battery life vs their previous cars really I dig the car I just still have some worry about the lack of cooling.
 
TexasLeaf said:
As many of you are aware, I traded in my 2018 Leaf in for a 2019 Niro EV. I thought I might share with you one day in the life of my Niro EV. Last December I traveled by interstate from Socorro, NM to Fort Worth, TX in one day.

The total distance was 808 miles and I traveled the speed limit the whole way except for the first leg. The first leg was 201 miles and the temperature was below freezing so I kept my speed to 60 mph. I made six consecutive CCS fast charging stops, I typically charged from 10% to 60% and my charging rate always peaked out at about 75 kW after the battery warmed up.

This would have been a challenging day even in a gas car but there wasn't a hint of the Niro EV traction battery getting hot. The Niro EV is definitely living up to it's billing. I have no regrets for abandoning my one year old Nissan Leaf and going with the Niro EV.

Hi TexasLeaf,

Thanks for this. Does your Niro cold-gate in the winter at all? What is your average DCFC speed between 10-60% in the winter? I've been asking on the Niro Inside EV forum and haven't been able to get a real answer.
 
^^^
Unfortunately, it may not get cold enough in TX for his results to be of much use to you. :(

Google for fort worth texas average temperature.
 
TexasLeaf said:
As many of you are aware, I traded in my 2018 Leaf in for a 2019 Niro EV. I thought I might share with you one day in the life of my Niro EV. Last December I traveled by interstate from Socorro, NM to Fort Worth, TX in one day.

The total distance was 808 miles and I traveled the speed limit the whole way except for the first leg. The first leg was 201 miles and the temperature was below freezing so I kept my speed to 60 mph. I made six consecutive CCS fast charging stops, I typically charged from 10% to 60% and my charging rate always peaked out at about 75 kW after the battery warmed up.

This would have been a challenging day even in a gas car but there wasn't a hint of the Niro EV traction battery getting hot. The Niro EV is definitely living up to it's billing. I have no regrets for abandoning my one year old Nissan Leaf and going with the Niro EV.

What amperage did the pack start charging at?

How long does it take to warm up?

How cold could it possibly be on an 800 mile trip?
 
Kieran973 said:
What is your average DCFC speed between 10-60% in the winter? I've been asking on the Niro Inside EV forum and haven't been able to get a real answer.

The Niro EV has a fairly flat charging curve between10% and 60%. With a 100+ kW charger and a warm battery, the charging jumps up to 70+ kW at about 10% and drops off after 60%. The trip I mentioned in my post actually was a round trip from Texas to Colorado and lasted several days with two cold morning starts.

One time I charged after my first 130 leg of the day with an ambient temperature of 23 degrees F. The charger quickly ramped up to 53 kW then stayed at that rate until the battery warmed up at about 45%. At 49% I was receiving a charge of 76 kW.

The battery does seem to be pretty cold blooded. Even after several fast charging stops the battery still started off slower and then ramped up when the battery warmed up. Even with active thermal management, with our hot Texas summers, I think I would prefer a battery that like to stay on the cool side.
 
TexasLeaf said:
Kieran973 said:
What is your average DCFC speed between 10-60% in the winter? I've been asking on the Niro Inside EV forum and haven't been able to get a real answer.

The Niro EV has a fairly flat charging curve between10% and 60%. With a 100+ kW charger and a warm battery, the charging jumps up to 70+ kW at about 10% and drops off after 60%. The trip I mentioned in my post actually was a round trip from Texas to Colorado and lasted several days with two cold morning starts.

One time I charged after my first 130 leg of the day with an ambient temperature of 23 degrees F. The charger quickly ramped up to 53 kW then stayed at that rate until the battery warmed up at about 45%. At 49% I was receiving a charge of 76 kW.

The battery does seem to be pretty cold blooded. Even after several fast charging stops the battery still started off slower and then ramped up when the battery warmed up. Even with active thermal management, with our hot Texas summers, I think I would prefer a battery that like to stay on the cool side.

Interesting. Must be a TMS thing. The Bolt does the same thing. My LEAF starts out at 200 amps immediately no matter how cold the pack. But the colder the starting temperature, the earlier the ramp down. I did start a charge at 45º (battery temp, OAT was 20º) and got full speed charge to 45% which I was more than happy with.

Will be interested in seeing how Rapidgate works on the plus packs. So far, I am seeing normal speed charge to start with early knees. on "50 KW" machines, I normally charge at 120 + amps to 68-70% SOC but did start a charge with pack over 100º and saw the ramp down at 50% SOC so quite the drop but then again, I only needed to go to 55% anyway so timewise, I lost practically nothing.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
How much do you use the paddles?

I generally leave the regen at the highest setting so I can one-pedal drive. Although the highest regen is pretty strong, the Niro EV won't come to a complete stop. You have to pull in the left paddle to get the car to come to a complete stop but at least that means that the brakes are not engaging unless you tell them to.

The Niro EV does have full Stop-and-Go Adaptive Cruise Control much like the ProPilot on the Leaf. The brakes do engage automatically with the Stop-and-Go Adaptive Cruise Control. The Stop-and-Go Adaptive Cruise Control on the Niro EV does seem to take off much quickly after a stop than I remember with the Leaf.
 
As far as other people posted the Plus battery is packed even closer and does not do well in hot weather.
I did look at the money I have to lay down for a plus version and decided I am better off with a M3. Not only I get 90kW and up to 150kW charge speed but the car has 170 kW/kg which gives you a completely different droving experience. Not to mention the tech on it puts everything else on the market to shame.
 
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