Level 1 solar charging w/o batteries?

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PrairieLEAF

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 10, 2019
Messages
200
Location
Weld County, Colorado
Hello,

Pardon if this has been discussed before. I wasn't able to find any matching threads.

I am wondering if anyone has set up level 1, off-grid solar charging without using batteries in the charging system. Can an inverter and EVSE safely shut down and restart with interruptions in sunlight?

I am not looking for portability--the LEAF is at home during nearly all daytime hours in sunny Colorado on a property with unobstructed dawn-to-dusk sun.

Thank you,

Eric
 
Hi Éric. Interesting question and sorry don’t know. I’ll be following this though.

It would maybe smooth things out a tad though if you added a couple AGM31 batteries. The sun could go behind a cloud for 10 or 20 minutes and the AGM’s would kick in. We use something like this as a backup systym for our fridge in case of a power outage.

Here is a shot. Bad camera angle and you can only see one battery. Good for a few days of outage if just running the fridge and a few LED lights through the house.

48898560956_013456eb46_c.jpg
 
I'm installing a grid-tie system, hopefully this year before the full tax credits expire. If you're with Excel it's a pretty easy process to sell the power back to them.

You could probably rig up an L1 system but what do you do with the power when you're not charging? The power output from panels varies a LOT during the day and during the seasons. Trying to match that up to charging times seems like a lot more work than just using the grid as a giant buffer.
 
Thanks for the replies.

An option I had in mind for the power when not charging is a grid-tie inverter that plugs into an outlet, making sure that it has anti-island protection to not endanger utility workers during outages.

Like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1000W-Solar-Grid-Tie-Inverter-110V-or-220V-MPPT-Pure-Sine-Wave-Inverter-From-USA/142618498360?hash=item2134b99538:m:mNBxJysxU-khzQzE9jF42NA

Without a reverse-spinning meter, we might not have as much power bill savings but the power could offset whatever's being used in the house at the time, or be used elsewhere.

I'm hoping to deal with the utility and county as little as possible.
 
PrairieLEAF said:
Thanks for the replies.

An option I had in mind for the power when not charging is a grid-tie inverter that plugs into an outlet, making sure that it has anti-island protection to not endanger utility workers during outages.

Like this

How exactly does that work. How would it sync.
 
That's interesting that the solar Prius uses a buffering battery. Maybe including a battery is the best way.

webeleafowners said:
How exactly does that work. How would it sync.

They monitor the waveform at the grid end and then match the phase with the AC they produce, just at slightly higher voltage. It's kind of a smaller version of the inverters used in grid-tied solar installations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid-tie_inverter
 
I'm now leaning toward a small, grid-tied homemade solar array. The grid-tie inverter on Ebay is available in 240v output and 36v input. The garage where the LEAF charges has 240v and 120v outlets next to each other. Maybe I should just keep the solar and grid-tie inverter plugged into the garage and keep plugging the LEAF EVSE into the garage as well.

I'm thinking about putting the panels on a painted wooden frame (like my Dad just made) on top of the shipping container that's already here, next to the garage. Then it would be out of reach of destructive goats, and the container is easy to tie down to.
 
PrairieLEAF said:
Thanks for the replies.

An option I had in mind for the power when not charging is a grid-tie inverter that plugs into an outlet, making sure that it has anti-island protection to not endanger utility workers during outages.

Like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1000W-Solar-Grid-Tie-Inverter-110V-or-220V-MPPT-Pure-Sine-Wave-Inverter-From-USA/142618498360?hash=item2134b99538:m:mNBxJysxU-khzQzE9jF42NA

Without a reverse-spinning meter, we might not have as much power bill savings but the power could offset whatever's being used in the house at the time, or be used elsewhere.

I'm hoping to deal with the utility and county as little as possible.

Those inverters are garbage. Do not buy anything like that.
 
Oilpan4 said:
Those inverters are garbage. Do not buy anything like that.

Thanks. The more YouTube videos I watch about them, the less I want one.

I think I will abandon solar for now. I learned that our utility has 30 MW of nearby solar farms and over 3,000 rooftop connections. Me messing with a few panels probably isn't worth it.
 
PrairieLEAF said:
Oilpan4 said:
Those inverters are garbage. Do not buy anything like that.

Thanks. The more YouTube videos I watch about them, the less I want one.

I think I will abandon solar for now. I learned that our utility has 30 MW of nearby solar farms and over 3,000 rooftop connections. Me messing with a few panels probably isn't worth it.

Get your self some roof top panels with a sunnyboy secure power supply grid tie inverter. That way you can have 120v 60hz AC power when the power goes out as long as the sun is out.
Best of all it doesn't use batteries.
Just don't get ripped off.
 
I think it's possible. I have level 1 too. By the way, I found some interesting and useful review about solar cars https://websolarguide.com/how-much-do-solar-cars-cost/
 
I dabble with off grid solar, work for an EV company, and own a Leaf, so here is what I know:

The lowest rate my evcs (charging thingie) works at is 110v/8 amps; that's 880 watts. I currently have a 400w solar array with a 5kw/hr lead acid battery bank and a 900w true sine power inverter. I did a test run on a bright day to see if it could charge a 2015 Leaf. Yes, but it was pushing it to the max!
I am currently upgrading the system to 600w solar array, 6.5kw/hr lifepo4 battery bank and a 1500w true sine power inverter. This would be able to reasonably charge the Leaf in sunny conditions, but not in one day, and I would definitely monitor the battery condition (L1 takes 20ish hours for a full charge). Still, in an emergency this is far better than nothing, and this system wasn't intended for this purpose, it is my emergency power for the house.

What I would recommend is at least 1000w solar system, 1200 preffrable due to losses (1500 w perfect), and a basic deep cycle battery (100 ahr minimum) as a buffer/reserve that you can use for other purposes. Your true sine power inverter should be no less than 1000w, 1200 would be better.
That system would do the trick, and be good to have regardless.

Is there a reason you want a direct batteryless charging system other than cost, because I don't think that would be a good idea.
 
Having a battery buffer is indeed better.

A couple of corrections to the above post: the charging cable is an "EVSE," and US line voltage is 120 volts these days, which changes the watt calculation.
 
Yes, I can never remember that acronym so I don't try too hard. Maybe that's why? :D

A few points about the voltage though. Yes, line voltage is 120, but...
I was talking about the minimum that my EVSE works at
I'm talking about running off of a power inverter, none of mine ever seem to hit 120 volts
I'll bet you don't have 120 volts at the plug regardless

My experiment with my solar system and EVSE (which has a meter on it) and what my killawatt and clamp meters all roughly agreed on was something around 117v and 7.9a so 925w, a 5% difference and part of the reason I recommended roughly 50% more capacity than mine.
A DC system, too many variables and potential losses... you always need to over spec, but then the cost... :roll:
 
Yeah, we looked into solar here, but the slate roof and relatively narrow South yard prohibited it. We do have one big solar thermal panel, and I wish we'd gotten two of them side by side. Our hydro plant is 3/4 of a mile from us, at least.
 
Precise1 said:
I dabble with off grid solar, work for an EV company, and own a Leaf, so here is what I know:

The lowest rate my evcs (charging thingie) works at is 110v/8 amps; that's 880 watts. I currently have a 400w solar array with a 5kw/hr lead acid battery bank and a 900w true sine power inverter. I did a test run on a bright day to see if it could charge a 2015 Leaf. Yes, but it was pushing it to the max!
I am currently upgrading the system to 600w solar array, 6.5kw/hr lifepo4 battery bank and a 1500w true sine power inverter. This would be able to reasonably charge the Leaf in sunny conditions, but not in one day, and I would definitely monitor the battery condition (L1 takes 20ish hours for a full charge). Still, in an emergency this is far better than nothing, and this system wasn't intended for this purpose, it is my emergency power for the house.

What I would recommend is at least 1000w solar system, 1200 preffrable due to losses (1500 w perfect), and a basic deep cycle battery (100 ahr minimum) as a buffer/reserve that you can use for other purposes. Your true sine power inverter should be no less than 1000w, 1200 would be better.
That system would do the trick, and be good to have regardless.

Is there a reason you want a direct batteryless charging system other than cost, because I don't think that would be a good idea.

Thanks for your findings!

Minimalism was a motivator for not wanting to include battery storage. My recent interest has shifted to building a micro camping trailer with enough unfolding solar power to be able to L1 charge the EV tow rig when camping. This would include battery storage (which would also supply the camping electrical demand) but would probably be at least several years out (if ever).
 
Did you see this story? Claims of a portable solar charging for a car so stationary should be even easier.

https://www.globaltrends.us/2021/03/man-uses-solar-panels-to-charge-his.html
 
LeftieBiker said:
Yeah, we looked into solar here, but the slate roof and relatively narrow South yard prohibited it. We do have one big solar thermal panel, and I wish we'd gotten two of them side by side. Our hydro plant is 3/4 of a mile from us, at least.

Glad to see you have on hydro power. If your roof does not allow solar out here we have community solar you can buy into. Our most "famous" eco car mechanic in colorado lives in an apartment and buys into a solar farm to get equivalent power, not sure if New York has a similar option. Basically a bunch of panels out in a fiend somewhere.

PrarieLEAF being that he is looking at not being grid tied could build a huge farm but not much point unless you get batteries to store it, I almost want to introduce him to a guy in southern wyoming who has windmills and solar and the largest tesla wall installation in Wyoming (not the country just Wyoming) he as you can imagine is rural east of Cheyenne. When you have land like that you can do impressive things.

I am grid tied with Xcel so I am limited to 120% production based on my usage over year at design time. Less than two miles from my house power companies change and they are less solar friendly, have demand charges all kinds of fun so my solar EV driving friends charge at l1 and and putting in home batteries.
 
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