Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

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GCC:
BDR Thermea Group showcases first hydrogen-powered domestic boiler
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/07/20190708-bdr.html

The first hydrogen-powered domestic boiler was recently put into operation in a real life situation in Rozenburg, the Netherlands. The boiler was developed by BDR Thermea Group, a leading manufacturer of smart thermal comfort solutions, whose mission is developing and producing heating and hot water solutions with virtually no CO2 emissions.

The boiler burns pure hydrogen that has been produced by wind or solar energy. Gas network provider Stedin, the company that has initiated the project, is responsible for the production and supply of the sustainably produced hydrogen.

This is the first real life situation in which pure hydrogen will be used to fuel a high-efficiency condensing boiler to heat the central heating system of a residential building. The boiler was developed by BDR Thermea Group’s Research and Development (R&D) competence center in Italy. After the first pilot in the Netherlands, which is being carried out by the Group’s Dutch subsidiary Remeha, it is carrying out a larger scale field trial in the United Kingdom. New opportunities for projects in other European countries are now being explored as part of the broader, pan-European development of this technology. . . .

he Dutch project in Rozenburg is a joint initiative with network operator Stedin, the municipality of Rotterdam and housing cooperative Ressort Wonen. The hydrogen boiler will be installed in a boiler room alongside an existing conventional natural gas boiler which will ensure that the residents have sufficient heat and hot water at all times. Stedin is using an existing regular pipeline to supply the hydrogen, demonstrating that the existing gas network is suitable for carrying hydrogen. In this project, Stedin and its partners are considering the entire chain of the future: the production, distribution and conversion of hydrogen, with the ultimate aim of providing zero-carbon comfort.
 
Ballard Power Systems purchasing B.C.’s first fleet of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles; Toyota Mirai
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/07/20190717-ballard.html

Ballard Power Systems . . . has arranged for several Ballard employees to purchase B.C.’s first fleet of fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEVs) from Toyota Canada Inc. (TCI). Ballard employees are expected to purchase the Toyota Mirai zero-emission FCEVs powered by hydrogen in 2019, with initial vehicle deliveries completed yesterday.

Canada’s first publicly accessible retail hydrogen station opened in Vancouver last summer, with another station poised to open in Burnaby shortly. Earlier this year, Natural Resources Canada and the B.C. government announced they are contributing a combined $3 million to build two new retail hydrogen refueling stations in the province’s Lower Mainland, and it is expected that Greater Vancouver and Victoria will have a network of six stations by 2020. . . .

Also GCC:
Ceres Power & Doosan partner on solid oxide fuel cell power systems for commercial buildings
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/07/201900716-ceres.html

Ceres Power, a developer of low-cost, next-generation fuel cell technology and Doosan Corporation will jointly develop solid oxide fuel cell (SOFC) distributed power systems initially targeted at the Korean commercial building market.

South Korea is a leading fuel cell market and has been a core target market for Ceres. South Korea benefits from a supportive regulatory regime and ambitious long-term targets. The South Korean government recently announced several initiatives to promote increased use of renewable generation and hydrogen technology and is targeting fuel cell manufacture for power generation to reach an output of 15 GW by 2040, up from 300 MW today.

Doosan has established itself as a leader in the fuel cell industry and is now adding Solid Oxide technology to its existing portfolio of fuel cell technologies. Doosan’s existing stationary fuel cell business exceeded 1 trillion won (c. $850 million) in orders for the first time in 2018, three years after entering the market. . . .
 
GCC:
JAXA and Toyota begin joint research into manned pressurized lunar rover
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/07/20190717-jaxa.html

This will be an FCEV, as the mission durations and distances required will be way too much for a BEV, even if getting all that weight to the moon made sense. Also, as this is intended to explore the moon's polar regions and find out what water ice resources are available, the possibility exists of refueling locally via electrolysis. See my earlier post and the discussion: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14744&p=551475&hilit=lunar+rover#p551468
 
Both GCC:
Alpiq and H2 Energy partner on hydrogen production plant in Switzerland; to support Hyundai fuel cell trucks
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/07/20190729-h2.html

Switzerland’s first system for the commercial production of hydrogen is planned at the Gösgen hydropower plant.

The 2 MW system is to be constructed by Hydrospider, which is owned in equal shares by Alpiq and H2 Energy. The system is to be constructed on the left bank of the Aare canal.

Hydrospider intends to produce climate-friendly hydrogen in Gösgen using electricity from 100 percent hydropower to power the first 50 of a total of 1,600 fuel cell trucks, which Hyundai Hydrogen Mobility, a joint venture between Hyundai Motors and H2 Energy, will bring onto Swiss roads by 2025. . . .

MAN Energy Solutions, Hydrogenious and Frames Group to build LOHC hydrogen storage systems
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/07/20190728-man.html

MAN Energy Solutions, Hydrogenious LOHC Technologies and Frames Group B.V. have signed a cooperation agreement in order to jointly design and build large scale hydrogen storage systems based on the Liquid Organic Hydrogen Carrier (LOHC) technology (earlier post).

Developed by Hydrogenious, the LOHC technology uses heat transfer oil as a carrier for hydrogen, thus allowing it to be stored under ambient conditions. The process also triples the amount of hydrogen that can be transported compared to standard pressurized containers. The LOHC technology offers a safe and efficient solution for storing and distributing hydrogen on a large scale.

The new partners are preparing to meet the needs for the future hydrogen market in respect to bulk hydrogen storage and transportation. As a first step, the companies have developed systems with hydrogen capacities of 5 and 12 tons per day. . . .
 
GCC:
ZeroAvia unveils hydrogen fuel cell powertrain for aviation
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/08/20190815-zeroavia.html

As expected, regional/commuter use up to about 500 miles is pretty much the H2/FC aviation niche, at least for now. Looking to initial deployment ca. 2022, with a Piper M-class single engine as a test mule now. Company has alumni from Tesla, BMW, Invidia, Air Liquide etc.


Also GCC:
MultiSchIBZ consortium developing SOFC APU for marine use
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/08/20190815-multischibz.html
 
Stoaty said:
GRA said:
GCC:
Toyota and ride-pooling startup CleverShuttle travel >2M km in Germany with the Toyota Fuel Cell Sedan Mirai
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/09/20190922-clevershuttle.html


2 years, 45 Mirais, 2.2M km. 15 months to reach 1st million. Started with 20 Mirais in Hamburg, then expanded to 45 and added Munich and Stuttgart.

How was the hydrogen produced? Fossil fuels?


Probably, but I don't know, nor do I know if Germany has a RFS for H2 such as California does. I do know that Germany has been developing H2 production facilities using excess wind for electrolysis - Linde has a demo plant in Mainz using (wind) power to gas, and there may be others. This article describes some of the work, the politics, and the issues that will have to be dealt with:
Germany eager to become global leader in developing hydrogen technologies
https://www.euractiv.com/section/cl...l-leader-in-developing-hydrogen-technologies/


Also see this article:
RENEWABLES 25 February 2019 16:00
Renewable hydrogen ‘already cost competitive’, say researchers
https://www.carbonbrief.org/renewable-hydrogen-already-cost-competative-say-researchers

Whether or how long it will take to be competitive outside of niches is anybody's guess (the article gives theirs).
 
Teslas has shown with their 75 and 100kwh batteries, active cooling and some charging ststions pretty much makes the hydrogen fuel cell obsolete for autos.
 
Have they found anything to make fuel cells out of that isn't depending on something in the top 8 rarest elements in the earth's crust?
Because even with out fuel cells gobbling up tons of rare precious metals the 20 year forecast is for availability to go down and the price to soar on fuel cell metals in use now.
If they depend on metals that cost $3,000 to $10,000 per troy ounce then they are dead on arrival.
 
Feel free to read any of the thousands of posts that make up this topic, many of which discuss these and numerous other issues. If you're specifically referring to Pt, aside from numerous posts discussing how the amount per stack has been steadily decreasing and how research on non-Pt cells is progressing, the U.s. spot price per oz. on the U.S. market just now was $963.10, not "$3,000 to $10,000".

As far as how much that might cost per car, here's a quote from an article in May discussing Bosch's new cells:
Bosch's new hydrogen fuel cells use a drastically reduced amount of platinum, Reuters reported Sunday. The major auto supplier, which recently partnered with Sweden's Powercell, is working on a new fuel cell architecture that, according to Reuters' report, will "use only as much platinum as a diesel catalytic converter."

The average amount of a platinum in a hydrogen fuel cell, according to Reuters' conversations with analysts, is between 30 and 60 grams. Diesel catalytic converters, on the other hand, only use between 3 and 7 grams of the shiny stuff. At today's price of $27.54 per gram, that would reduce the platinum cost in each car from about $830 to about $83.
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/bosch-ev-fuel-cells-less-platinum-report/

I believe I posted a link to another article reporting this story up-topic [Edit. Found it]: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14744&start=4210#p557335

While I'm at it, from Sep. 4th:
China wants 1 million FCEVs on their roads by 2030
https://www.electrive.com/2019/09/04/china-wants-1-million-fcevs-on-their-roads-by-2030/

The interim target is 50k in 2025.
 
Wasn't talking about today's price of platinum since fuel cell construction uses a negligible amount of platinum now.
I'm well aware of what the price of platinum is now and where it will likely go as I own pounds of it. I watch the price and read the mining news at least daily.

So 3 to 7 grams times how potentially how many millions of cars?
They could build between 10 and maybe 20 cars per ounce.

I think it would be great anything that raises the price of platinum and keeps it high helps secure my retirement.
 
GCC:
Report: Hydrogen ministerial meeting to call for 10M fuel cell vehicles in 10 years
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/09/20190923-h2.html

. . .Currently, only around 10,000 vehicles around the world run on fuel cells.

Japanese Industry Minister Isshu Sugawara will chair the meeting that will be attended by officials from the US, Europe and the Mideast. The Nikkei said that the Minister included the 10 million goal in his draft chairman’s statement, which also includes a goal to increase the number of hydrogen fueling stations to 10,000 in 10 years. There are now several hundred fueling stations globally.

The goal of 10 million vehicles is not a commitment, but an ambitious, common global target. The chairman’s statement will also include a call for common standards and research agenda, the Nikkei said. . . .


Obviously, any such ramp up will be dependent on lowering the cost of sustainably-produced H2 (and/or raising the cost of fossil-fuels through carbon or other taxes).
 
GRA said:
Obviously, any such ramp up will be dependent on lowering the cost of sustainably-produced H2 (and/or raising the cost of fossil-fuels through carbon or other taxes).

Notice that the ratio between sustainably produced electric power and H2 isn't mentioned.

Hydrogen has a future, but it's not vehicles. Oh, maybe some exceptions. Rocket launches, almost for sure. Medium range aircraft, perhaps. Maybe even long range trucking. And cars are a cheap test platform for development. But put the hydrogen car up there with the flying car. You can build a few, but not practical.
 
Fuel cell is another option.
300kwh+ long range or darn near unlimited range pure electric cars may not be practical.
 
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