Standard versus Plus-model Leaf

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I too am considering a leaf and will use it for short range work too, 15mi/day or so. Battery degradation is a concern of mine, but the battery warranty of 8yrs for ~100mi of range or so is still pretty good capacity for me and may be a non-issue. Tack a few more years to make it to 10yrs and say it goes to 50% capacity, but even then that's do-able for me and I could still go a few days b/w charges. I'm not sure what I'm going to choose, but battery degradation issues haven't ruled it out a leaf for me yet.

Btw, maybe you know this, but talking to my uncle who owns a leaf on Oahu, there's a rebate going on now with the local electric company.
 
fasteddie911 said:
I too am considering a leaf and will use it for short range work too, 15mi/day or so. Battery degradation is a concern of mine, but the battery warranty of 8yrs for ~100mi of range or so is still pretty good capacity for me and may be a non-issue. Tack a few more years to make it to 10yrs and say it goes to 50% capacity, but even then that's do-able for me and I could still go a few days b/w charges. I'm not sure what I'm going to choose, but battery degradation issues haven't ruled it out a leaf for me yet.

Btw, maybe you know this, but talking to my uncle who owns a leaf on Oahu, there's a rebate going on now with the local electric company.
You're in a similar situation as we are, I'd say! And yes, the dealership had given us the heads-up on the rebate through the electric company, which was nice.

We ended up getting the Leaf, standard range. We delayed for a bit but my thinking was this: when does the thermal management really come into play? The two biggest stressors are probably fast charging, which we don't intend to do, and heavy driving on the freeway. Sure, the battery will be having higher output with some of the mountain driving that we have to do here, but in general - despite the constant heat (which feels worse due to humidity than it really is; it's rare that we get into the 90's) - thermal management might actually be a "wasted" feature for us. I'd certainly rather have it than not, but looking at the cost difference between the Leaf and cars like the Bolt or Model 3, for my wife's purposes it's probably not worth it. The eight-year warranty on the battery is also a major reassurance; I have no doubt that Nissan would try to screw us out of it if we needed it, but it's still there. (I do think it's a bit sleazy that they have you do annual "battery checkups" and charge "around $100" (or so they told us) for the test, which is a requirement to keep that battery warranty... but I guess they're looking to continue monetizing the car in some form. On the bright side, the first two checkups are free...)

Ultimately, what it also came down to was the fact that here in Hawaii the older model Leaf is still the most-seen BEV on the roads. Sure, I don't know exactly how old those cars are, whether they're on their second or third battery packs, or whether they're near-useless, but the fact that they're out and about in full force is reassuring for this climate. I've also seen a good number of the new Leafs on the road. Hawaii is a small place; if the original Leafs were performing horribly out here and/or if Nissan were bilking people badly then I don't think there would be so many. Tesla has a strong presence here, as well, and there are now some days when the Model 3 is my most-sighted BEV... which is saying something, considering that most days I easily see more than five BEVs (and I've even seen two in a row on multiple occasions; I think I've only seen three BEVs in a row once). But for the Leaf to have such a strong showing must mean that it's working well enough for most people.

Time will tell on the battery, but driving it home, I was very pleased. I've gone through quite a few cars (including rentals) and the Toyota Prius (gen 3) has been my absolute favorite for handling, utility, dimensions, and overall comfort. As I wrote before, if Toyota made an all-electric Prius I'd buy it in a heartbeat, but they don't have an all-electric anything and so here we are. Based on the specification sheets the Leaf is the closest BEV you can get to a Prius, and in driving it I felt almost as if it were handling like my Prius. It had more pep, as one might expect. (I keep my Prius largely locked in "Eco" mode, and put the Leaf into Eco mode as well - no doubt the Leaf would feel like some turbo vehicle to me if I took Eco off.) We'll see how it handles under more road conditions but for Prius lovers living in fair climates who won't be doing tons of heavy driving, I think the Leaf is the ideal BEV to jump to for now. The Bolt seems to be the closest to the Prius after that, but I didn't even check one out in person. I'm seeing more and more of them here in Hawaii, though, so no doubt they're popular as well...

Thanks all for your advice! Now I have a lot of reading to do, and will probably be posting more questions in the near future.
 
Will be interesting to hear how it holds up. Please get back to us after it's passed thru at least 2 summers.

It's not easy for me to find some of the legit Hawaii capacity loss posts and I need to hit the sack soon, but here's one with the lousy pre-4/2013 chemistry: http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=508537#p508537. That 1/2013 built car was a 3 bar loser by the time he got it in Oct 2017 and it lost its 4th bar while he was still under capacity warranty.

Here's another: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=28478 - Hawaii lizard pack Leaf (best one we know of so far), down 2 bars by April 2019.
 
We ended up getting the Leaf, standard range. We delayed for a bit but my thinking was this: when does the thermal management really come into play? The two biggest stressors are probably fast charging, which we don't intend to do, and heavy driving on the freeway. Sure, the battery will be having higher output with some of the mountain driving that we have to do here, but in general - despite the constant heat (which feels worse due to humidity than it really is; it's rare that we get into the 90's) - thermal management might actually be a "wasted" feature for us.

Hawaii seems to be one of the worse (but not worst) places to drive a Leaf, degradation-wise, because of the warm nights. You don't need to see extremely hot daytime temperatures to get heat degradation, if the pack can't cool down much at night. I suggest that you try to avoid fast-charging (and drag racing!) and try to charge when the pack is below the middle of the range on the "gauge" - or at worst to avoid charging when it's at or beyond the 2/3 area on the very vague temp gauge. Most people don't air-condition their garages, but I do during heat waves, at night, so my car's pack can cool down.
 
LeftieBiker said:
We ended up getting the Leaf, standard range. We delayed for a bit but my thinking was this: when does the thermal management really come into play? The two biggest stressors are probably fast charging, which we don't intend to do, and heavy driving on the freeway. Sure, the battery will be having higher output with some of the mountain driving that we have to do here, but in general - despite the constant heat (which feels worse due to humidity than it really is; it's rare that we get into the 90's) - thermal management might actually be a "wasted" feature for us.

Hawaii seems to be one of the worse (but not worst) places to drive a Leaf, degradation-wise, because of the warm nights. You don't need to see extremely hot daytime temperatures to get heat degradation, if the pack can't cool down much at night. I suggest that you try to avoid fast-charging (and drag racing!) and try to charge when the pack is below the middle of the range on the "gauge" - or at worse to avoid charging when it's at or beyond the 2/3 area on the very vague temp gauge. Most people don't air-condition their garages, but I do during heat waves, at night, so my car's pack can cool down.
Appreciate the advice. We're extremely conservative drivers and plan to keep the car locked on "eco" mode, using only trickle charging, and keeping the battery between 20-80% charge. We'll see how it goes. Right now we park it in an area where it gets a lot of wind, but you raise a good point about being able to cool over time (and while charging). We'll do what we can to make sure it can do so.
 
With your driving needs; I would get the standard. It will take YEARS of degradation before it becomes an issue to you. I think the biggest challenge for anyone in the market right now is how long will you want to keep your car. It was easy 20 years ago to say I will keep it 15 years but landscape is changing too fast for me to comfortably make that statement any more. I am now looking at a 5-7 year cycle for me and I think 7 years is unlikely.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
With your driving needs; I would get the standard. It will take YEARS of degradation before it becomes an issue to you. I think the biggest challenge for anyone in the market right now is how long will you want to keep your car. It was easy 20 years ago to say I will keep it 15 years but landscape is changing too fast for me to comfortably make that statement any more. I am now looking at a 5-7 year cycle for me and I think 7 years is unlikely.

That's where I'm at now. Like the OP, I am looking at a Leaf for relatively low usage, a new or lightly used Leaf could last me over a decade easily (based on mileage) and I'd hope to keep it that long. While a new one would be nice, for that long a timeline I do wonder how it'll hold up and how EV tech will develop, including Nissan's. Add to that the steep depreciation, selling/trading in a few years would be a wasteful, and the bargains I could get on a used model now(including maybe waiting for used 2018's to hit the market) is hard to ignore.
 
I do find it interesting that on the U.K. Nissan site that while at 45 mph range is listed at 240 miles, at 65 mph, range is only 157 miles per Nissan. Now I have certainly beat that, but am surprised at how conservative a number they have listed.
 
I mentioned in another thread a finally, first time ever, charged to 100% the other night. the GOM gave me a reading of 162, then when I turned the Ac on it dropped to 154 or similar. This is probably pretty close to reality - with my driving. City driving, stop and go, 45 mph max.

When I drove it home for the first time, that is a 90 mile drive at 70+ mph. I had plenty of range to get home, but it was very clear that I wouldn't ever get 150 miles at freeway speeds. Especially not with AC.

According to the myleaf app for Sept I'm averaging right about 4 miles per kWHr. I imagine that will go up slightly as I use less AC.

For those who do a lot of freeway driving I can see that number dropping into the upper 3.X range.
 
When I drove it home for the first time, that is a 90 mile drive at 70+ mph. I had plenty of range to get home, but it was very clear that I wouldn't ever get 150 miles at freeway speeds. Especially not with AC.

You might manage it at just 70MPH, with A/C set to 75F and tire pressures at 42-44psi.
 
LeftieBiker said:
When I drove it home for the first time, that is a 90 mile drive at 70+ mph. I had plenty of range to get home, but it was very clear that I wouldn't ever get 150 miles at freeway speeds. Especially not with AC.

You might manage it at just 70MPH, with A/C set to 75F and tire pressures at 42-44psi.

The G-O-M doesn't seem to care what speed or temp I set my AC at, its either on or off, but I have assumed a lower speed would mean lower draw on the compressor? Or does the compressor only run at one power setting no matter your fan speed?

Yeah I don't know what tire pressure the dealer had it at when I drove it home.
 
For long highway runs, I set my AC to 78 and auto so it basically just dehumidifies the air to make the cabin manageable. At 70 MPH I would stay around other cars/trucks (no tail gating) to take advantage of some reduced wind resistance. The SV and SL have Michelin tires which are rated at 44 psi. I keep my tires there as it does help a bit.
 
danrjones said:
The G-O-M doesn't seem to care what speed or temp I set my AC at, its either on or off, but I have assumed a lower speed would mean lower draw on the compressor? Or does the compressor only run at one power setting no matter your fan speed?
I'm not sure how fan speed affects it, but my understanding is that the Leaf is similar to the way Toyota programmed the Priuses: if you're in Eco mode the maximum draw for the A/C system is cut about in half compared with the power draw it will take if you're not in Eco mode. In practice I find this just means the A/C takes a bit longer to get things cool, but it's far more power efficient. I could imagine that under really, really hot conditions the A/C might not be able to keep up if its power were limited.
 
Fan speed control how much air flows through the evaporator coils, so a low fan speed means less work for the compressor because the coils warm more slowly. So selecting Eco as noted above, plus a low fan speed (1 or 2) and a set temp in the mid seventies or higher will reduce the A/C power draw. You can also close the passenger vents as much as possible if you are alone (or if, as I often do, you are carrying a passenger who doesn't like A/C).
 
I'm surprised/impressed with how much motor Nissan crammed into the Plus--160 kW, if I'm not mistaken (vs. 120 kW in the 40 kwh and 80 kW in the 2017 and earlier). That's gotta really move!

(I don't see many gasoline models doubling their power over just a few years!)

I've found what affects battery temperature the most is mountain climbing. Air temperatures here have been setting high records all over the place, but the pack in the 30 kWh 2016 stays in the lower 2/3 of the gauge on the plains. I had never seen the temp get as high as when climbing an 11,300' pass a few weeks ago, in cool air temps in the 70s (it wasn't scary-high; I think two bars from the red). The one time I've used QC so far, I don't think the temp gauge even moved.

BEVs are absolute aces in heavy traffic. They seem to use next to nothing.

I sometimes cycle the A/C every few minutes. It's surprising how long the air stays cool after the compressor's been turned off.

I feel like the GOM uses recent activity to adjust the climate control penalties. When I first brought the LEAF home, it seemed to knock off more than it does now.

The pack sure seems to have a lot of thermal capacity, so if you're able to secure a shaded parking spot when not in use, that should work wonders for overall battery temp.

Although I really enjoyed the Gen 2 Prius I drove for 12 years, there's just something about a BEV that makes me adverse to having an engine on-board any more. BEVs just have that ideal driving experience and mechanical simplicity. Using a gas pump feels like a stab to the gut, and I'm so over engine vibration, noise, and fumes.

I view the lack of active cooling on the LEAF as a pro/con situation rather than a detriment. My friend's Focus Electric had the battery cooling system spring a leak, requiring a service call.

I recently talked with a Model 3 owner who agrees that the quality control/reliability issues are overplayed in the media. He and everyone he's talked to love their Teslas.

For some perspective on battery capacity, I live outside city limits, nearly all trips are at least 20 miles each way, and even in temperatures around 10F, this pre-owned, 30 kWh 2016 has been doing the job (with no less than an 18-mile safety margin)!
 
danrjones said:
LeftieBiker said:
When I drove it home for the first time, that is a 90 mile drive at 70+ mph. I had plenty of range to get home, but it was very clear that I wouldn't ever get 150 miles at freeway speeds. Especially not with AC.

You might manage it at just 70MPH, with A/C set to 75F and tire pressures at 42-44psi.

The G-O-M doesn't seem to care what speed or temp I set my AC at, its either on or off, but I have assumed a lower speed would mean lower draw on the compressor? Or does the compressor only run at one power setting no matter your fan speed?

Yeah I don't know what tire pressure the dealer had it at when I drove it home.

Fan speed controls how much power A/C uses via LEAF Spy and this is verified thru logs as well. On mine; the system blows cold air all the time but higher fan speeds makes air feel warmer. If its real hot, I blast it on high a few mins to cool down car then lower it to fan speed 3. This is more than enough to keep me comfortable in nearly all weather I usually see. FYI; it doesn't matter what I set my thermostat to; at fan speed 3, its cold air all the time. This means on milder days, I toggle compressor off and on when I start feeling the need to turn on my seat heaters...
 
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