"Lizard" battery stats - hot climate

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Marktm

Well-known member
Leaf Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2016
Messages
854
Location
Houston, TX
Thought I'd post the latest amp-hour chart for my 2012 Leaf, with the hope that others that have similar data can compare based on similarities/dissimilarities. The data is based on a new replacement battery installed in November of 2016.
- Mostly commuter/in town use with occasional highway trips to the City (Houston). Most average speeds around 20 - 30mph
- Garage kept almost all the time. A few occasions of parking in full sun on hot pavement
- Houston, TX climate. Battery temps range between the 60's to high 90's
- Not sure I've QC's even once with the replacement battery - use home 240 VAC charger (~16 amps)
- Beginning mileage - 29,760; Last mileage - 44,069

Actually surprised how consistent the curve varies winter to summer. Hoping that the "winter drop" is not so pronounced this year - we'll see.






Battery log 6.30.19.jpg
 
I bought a 2013 Leaf SV without the quick charger option two years ago. It was a "cool climate" Leaf from Tacoma Washington and now Vancouver BC. It has a lizard battery, one of the first of the modified chemistry from April 2013 manufacture date. It is now showing 90.5% of original capacity with 59 amp hours after all this time according to Leafspy. It has 68,047 kms. on the odometer. Charging has been done mostly with Level 2 home charger, and charged to 100%.

Overall pretty happy with the low amount of degradation.
 
A4stewart said:
I bought a 2013 Leaf SV without the quick charger option two years ago. It was a "cool climate" Leaf from Tacoma Washington and now Vancouver BC. It has a lizard battery, one of the first of the modified chemistry from April 2013 manufacture date. It is now showing 90.5% of original capacity with 59 amp hours after all this time according to Leafspy. It has 68,047 kms. on the odometer. .
"Lizard" pack didn't exist in 2013 in customer's hands. If it's the original pack from an April 2013 build, you don't have the lizard pack.
 
cwerdna said:
A4stewart said:
I bought a 2013 Leaf SV without the quick charger option two years ago. It was a "cool climate" Leaf from Tacoma Washington and now Vancouver BC. It has a lizard battery, one of the first of the modified chemistry from April 2013 manufacture date. It is now showing 90.5% of original capacity with 59 amp hours after all this time according to Leafspy. It has 68,047 kms. on the odometer. .
"Lizard" pack didn't exist in 2013 in customer's hands. If it's the original pack from an April 2013 build, you don't have the lizard pack.

Cwerdna is correct. The improved chemistry that was used starting in 4/2013, and nicknamed the "Wolf Pack" by me, isn't quite as heat resistant as the Lizard pack, although it performs very close to it in other respects. The Lizard Pack was introduced for the 2015 model year.
 
For reference, A4stewart can look at these:
https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13192&p=320754&hilit=testing#p320754
https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=17168 - search for lizard
 
I suppose I should contribute to this thread. I saw gradual capacity loss until about 10 months ago (well over 60,000 miles),. Now there appear to be several weak cell pairs getting progressively weaker (based upon Leaf Spy data) which are limiting the energy storage capability of the full battery pack, and thus limiting usable range. The weak cells reach minimum voltage and cause turtle followed by shutdown even though there is a lot of energy left in the remaining cells. The weak cells reach maximum voltage while charging before the other cells so they also limit maximum charge of the pack.

The internal resistance also appears to be increasing over time and that is causing the battery temperature to be significantly higher this summer than during the previous 4 summers. In the past, the battery temperature would gradually cool off during highway driving after a DCQC, but now the temperature increases while driving on the highway. The odometer currently indicates 80813 miles while the car is charging at a DCQC station since I can no longer make my round trip commute without charging. The higher internal resistance and weak cells also limit regeneration and cause slower charging on DCQC.
 
The degradation slope of my traction battery is quite smooth when compared to Marktm’s, even when plotted monthly. I live in the San Fernando Valley area of Los Angeles. The battery has ~70k miles on it.

9/28/15 61.14Ahr
10/1/16 62.36 Ahr
10/1/17 57.02 Ahr
10/1/18 54.17 Ahr
7/1/19 51.87 Ahr

Edit: Rescaled the monthly Ahr readings on my chart to match Marktm’s. The slope now resembles his chart more but is still slightly smoother.
 
91040 said:
The degradation slope of my traction battery is quite smooth when compared to Marktm’s, even when plotted monthly. I live in the San Fernando Valley area of Los Angeles. The battery has ~70k miles on it.

9/28/15 61.14Ahr
10/1/16 62.36 Ahr
10/1/17 57.02 Ahr
10/1/18 54.17 Ahr
7/1/19 51.87 Ahr

I have driven about half as many miles (~35,000) in approximately the same time (battery replaced in December 2015) with similar results (~52.1 AHr). I can definitely say my Lizard battery has performed better than the original; even if I hit 2 bars by the end of this year, I lost 4 bars over the same time period with the original battery.
 
GerryAZ said:
I suppose I should contribute to this thread. I saw gradual capacity loss until about 10 months ago (well over 60,000 miles),. Now there appear to be several weak cell pairs getting progressively weaker (based upon Leaf Spy data) which are limiting the energy storage capability of the full battery pack, and thus limiting usable range. The weak cells reach minimum voltage and cause turtle followed by shutdown even though there is a lot of energy left in the remaining cells. The weak cells reach maximum voltage while charging before the other cells so they also limit maximum charge of the pack.

The internal resistance also appears to be increasing over time and that is causing the battery temperature to be significantly higher this summer than during the previous 4 summers. In the past, the battery temperature would gradually cool off during highway driving after a DCQC, but now the temperature increases while driving on the highway. The odometer currently indicates 80813 miles while the car is charging at a DCQC station since I can no longer make my round trip commute without charging. The higher internal resistance and weak cells also limit regeneration and cause slower charging on DCQC.


When it's convenience, consider determining and posting your internal battery resistance as described here;
http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28911&start=320#p559503

Thanks
 
91040 said:
The degradation slope of my traction battery is quite smooth when compared to Marktm’s, even when plotted monthly. I live in the San Fernando Valley area of Los Angeles. The battery has ~70k miles on it.

9/28/15 61.14Ahr
10/1/16 62.36 Ahr
10/1/17 57.02 Ahr
10/1/18 54.17 Ahr
7/1/19 51.87 Ahr

Edit: Rescaled the monthly Ahr readings on my chart to match Marktm’s. The slope now resembles his chart more but is still slightly smoother.

My battery is looking similar. I bought my 2012 Leaf 8 months ago so I don't know the previous owners numbers. I estimate the new battery has 24k miles on it after roughly 2 1/2 years. I am also in Los Angeles and previous owner was driving it in San Bernardino, CA.

2/17 - new battery
2/19 - 57.05 Ahr
7/19 - 56.19 Ahr
 
91040 said:
The degradation slope of my traction battery is quite smooth when compared to Marktm’s, even when plotted monthly. I live in the San Fernando Valley area of Los Angeles. The battery has ~70k miles on it.

9/28/15 61.14Ahr
10/1/16 62.36 Ahr
10/1/17 57.02 Ahr
10/1/18 54.17 Ahr
7/1/19 51.87 Ahr

Edit: Rescaled the monthly Ahr readings on my chart to match Marktm’s. The slope now resembles his chart more but is still slightly smoother.

Hi @91040, can you tell me your charging habits?

I live close to SFV and commute to Glendale so experience the same weather as you. Last year I pushed the battery hard out of necessity. My soon-to-be 3 year old lizard battery is already down to 50.26 Ahr and is dropping after every charge. At this rate, in two years I'll have trouble making my commute just one way (40 miles). I'm able to baby the battery now, but wonder if the damage is done and I should start shopping for another car.
 
I doubt my charging habits make that much of a difference in my traction battery’s stats compared to most others. My guess is that any better longevity is due to driving very conservatively for range. My long term average efficiency is 4.8 miles per kWh. That means less heat creation and fewer charging cycles.

Most of my charging is with L2 but I do QC whenever there is a need, usually a couple of times a month. The car is kept in a garage that can get quite hot. Typically, I return home between LBW and VLBW. If lower, I will charge to VLBW immediately. Then, a 100% charge will be set to end by 10a the morning of the next day it will be driven. Often, it sits fully charged until around 6p. Not ideal but avoids peak electricity rates. The charge is set to finish closer to departure on the weekends.

Today, my 50 month old lizard battery is at 49.38Ah after 78k miles.

Trolleydodger78 said:
Hi @91040, can you tell me your charging habits?

I live close to SFV and commute to Glendale so experience the same weather as you. Last year I pushed the battery hard out of necessity. My soon-to-be 3 year old lizard battery is already down to 50.26 Ahr and is dropping after every charge. At this rate, in two years I'll have trouble making my commute just one way (40 miles). I'm able to baby the battery now, but wonder if the damage is done and I should start shopping for another car.
 
91040 said:
I doubt my charging habits make that much of a difference in my traction battery’s stats compared to most others. My guess is that any better longevity is due to driving very conservatively for range. My long term average efficiency is 4.8 miles per kWh. That means less heat creation and fewer charging cycles.

Most of my charging is with L2 but I do QC whenever there is a need, usually a couple of times a month. The car is kept in a garage that can get quite hot. Typically, I return home between LBW and VLBW. If lower, I will charge to VLBW immediately. Then, a 100% charge will be set to end by 10a the morning of the next day it will be driven. Often, it sits fully charged until around 6p. Not ideal but avoids peak electricity rates. The charge is set to finish closer to departure on the weekends.

Today, my 50 month old lizard battery is at 49.38Ah after 78k miles.

Thank you! This information is helpful.
 
Back
Top