Is the EV the end of DIY?

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IssacZachary

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2017
Messages
881
Location
Gunnison, CO, USA
Yes, working on a car can be a love-hate relationship. But there are those of us who always seem to have a hard time finding a decent mechanic. I don't know why but 9 out of 10 times I go to any mechanic it seems the car comes back worse than when I took it in. (For an example, once the mechanic cut the brake line and we ended slamming into the back of our land lord's truck. And I have several more stories just like that.) So I've ended up doing all my own mechanic work, even doing my own alignments.

Of course when you tinker on a car you many times start wanting to modify it. Maybe you want more power or better fuel mileage or something else. For an example I had a 1,500W engine block heater on a car that I just got in and went to work without idling the engine to warm it up even in -40°F weather since the engine was already warmed up to running temperature. I even thought about adding a big thermos that would hold hot coolant in it and then pump that into the engine right before taking off in the morning.

One thing I really wanted to do was do an EV conversion. I even got a car that was known to be easy to convert to a BEV, a classic VW Beetle. But then I got a Leaf instead. At first I wanted to do so many things to it: add more battery cells, add more chargers, add solar panels, add an emergency ICE range extender. Or at least some day take a 40 or 60 kWh battery out of a wrecked Leaf and throw it into my Leaf.

But alas! Every time I even mention working on my Leaf I both tell myself and am told by others the horrible danger of working on it. Sadly that means the Leaf won't work for me. It will never go as far as I want it to without modification. If I want to go farther in an EV I have to sell this one and buy that one. Yet that's only at least $30,000 for the "upgrade"? Ouch! No, I can't do that. Even with all the tax credits, no, it won't work for me.

So I'm back to tinkering on ICEV's again, but wondering what the world of vehicles is coming to. A day when you can't work on your own vehicle?? Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I honestly don't know.

At least I got my 1972 VW Bug running and will be using that for now. I got a lot of tuning to still do, mainly jetting the carburetor and remapping the distributor advance curves. But hey! It's kind of fun!
 
To hack a LEAF, "all" you have to do I think is replace the BMS to one that is not proprietary and closed. DIY EV forums will have details and places to buy.

Just keep in mind that hacking and tinkering are rather different. Hacking usually implies a fairly in depth competency in electricity and programming, and some electronics too.
 
SageBrush said:
TJust keep in mind that hacking and tinkering are rather different.
True. I say tinkering on my VW when I've rebuilt the whole engine with everything being completely balanced, magnafluxed, re-machined and ceramic coated in a way only a perfectionist, like me, would do.

So far the only two things I've DIY'ed on the Leaf are replacing the 12V battery, the windshield wiper blades and installing my own level 2 EVSE on my house.

LeftieBiker said:
There is a whole wide world of EV DIY. It's especially active with scooters, bicycles and motorcycles, but cars are popular too. Check out
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/
But are we to consider those who do that as heretics for attempting to work with flammable high voltage lithium ion cells without having a degree in chemistry and electronics?
 
As you pointed out, working on ICE cars is not without danger. Working on EVs requires proper knowledge and equipment to do so safely, but it's not an impossible hurdle.
 
IssacZachary said:
But are we to consider those who do that as heretics for attempting to work with flammable high voltage lithium ion cells without having a degree in chemistry and electronics?
Not all Li-ion chemistries are "flammable." In fact the chemistry used in the Nissan LEAF (at least the first generation) is quite benign. I believe that the NMC chemistry used in the new version is also quite benign. That's one reason why the only LEAF fires we know about were caused by the 12V wiring in the car or wiring in the house feeding the EVSE.

Here's a video showing the battery used in the Enphase AC Battery undergoing destructive testing:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUg7cDbRBo0[/youtube]

Notice that there is no fire, even in the crush test.

That said, some Li-ion batteries ARE flammable, such as those used in the Tesla Model S and the Boeing 787.
 
Mate Rimac has been a VERY successful electric-car tinkerer:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LP6g4bHHhS0[/youtube]

I would have to say that he is the epitome of DIY!
 
IssacZachary said:
But are we to consider those who do that as heretics
Straw man

Do not kid yourself though. Working on an EV is a higher bar than working on an old VW beetle, and the EV is easier to brick or fry.
 
SageBrush said:
IssacZachary said:
But are we to consider those who do that as heretics
Straw man

Do not kid yourself though. Working on an EV is a higher bar than working on an old VW beetle, and the EV is easier to brick or fry.
True. And the whole reason I've given up on the idea.

But not being able to do anything to your vehicle takes away from that feeling of accomplishment when you've done something with your own wits and might.

What's worse in my situation is that basically I now have an all electric lawn ornament that's depreciated so much nobody even wants to give me even half of what I'd still owe on it had I not paid it off early. Of course my situation is different from the other 99% of the population that would benefit from a BEV just like mine with more than enough range for their 30 mile-ish daily routine. But what do I do with it now? I think I'm going to just give it to my mother-in-law.
 
Honestly, I would say it is just the opposite, I think the EV is going to usher in a return to DIY for a lot of people, because they will find they can get the car just the way they want it.

Yes, there is going to be a little bit of risk with the high voltages, but ultimately watch videos on the safety of handling them and follow the precautions closely.
 
goldbrick said:
IssacZachary said:
But what do I do with it now?

There's a guy in Boulder looking for a Leaf and he claims all he wants is 40 miles of range.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25278
He also is looking for the cheapest possible.

This thread strikes me as a reaction to OP's inability to sell his LEAF at the price he wants. He jumped into the EV pool with a lot of enthusiasm but not a whole lot of consideration, and wrongly figured he could climb out easily if the car did not work out.
IIRC, he paid $10k a year ago and received a $2k tax credit. Close to the same time I bought a very similar car albeit with a healthier battery for $8300 and also received the tax credit. We both live in areas where EVs are rare cars and demand is quite low.

The biggest difference between us though is that OP bought a car that was a reach from the get go for his driving and when circumstances changed for him the LEAF became inadequate overnight. My LEAF is our second car, used from day #1 for local duties. I did buy a 240v mobile EVSE as insurance and some "piece of mind" but the car is simply not ever going to be asked to be a general purpose car. I did have to agitate for over a year to finally uncover a charging method near work as a back-up, but that was always plan 'D' anyway.

This is not an EV specific issue, it is a LEAF issue. And more specifically it is a locale and OP issue. Rather than turn on EVs, I suggest he put more effort into finding or making happen an L2 charge point at his new destination. Such is the reality of buying a very range limited EV in an area with minimal charging infrastructure.

"Hacking" the car to make it work for him is just not going to happen. It sounds sexy and all and attempts to move blame to the car but it really is besides the point and completely impractical. Perhaps the gentler way to frame this is that OP has to "hack" the EV charging infrastructure. Knock on doors. Use the new employer's connections. Focus on extending the LEAF in ways that have a better chance of success.
 
SageBrush said:
He also is looking for the cheapest possible.

This thread strikes me as a reaction to OP's inability to sell his LEAF at the price he wants. He jumped into the EV pool with a lot of enthusiasm but not a whole lot of consideration, and wrongly figured he could climb out easily if the car did not work out.
IIRC, he paid $10k a year ago and received a $2k tax credit. Close to the same time I bought a very similar car albeit with a healthier battery for $8300 and also received the tax credit. We both live in areas where EVs are rare cars and demand is quite low.

The biggest difference between us though is that OP bought a car that was a reach from the get go for his driving and when circumstances changed for him the LEAF became inadequate overnight. My LEAF is our second car, used from day #1 for local duties. I did buy a 240v mobile EVSE as insurance and some "piece of mind" but the car is simply not ever going to be asked to be a general purpose car. I did have to agitate for over a year to finally uncover a charging method near work as a back-up, but that was always plan 'D' anyway.

This is not an EV specific issue, it is a LEAF issue. And more specifically it is a locale and OP issue. Rather than turn on EVs, I suggest he put more effort into finding or making happen an L2 charge point at his new destination. Such is the reality of buying a very range limited EV in an area with minimal charging infrastructure.

"Hacking" the car to make it work for him is just not going to happen. It sounds sexy and all and attempts to move blame to the car but it really is besides the point and completely impractical. Perhaps the gentler way to frame this is that OP has to "hack" the EV charging infrastructure. Knock on doors. Use the new employer's connections. Focus on extending the LEAF in ways that have a better chance of success.
Yes, yes, yes, maybe, and yes.

Now I don't mean to be belly aching about EV's or Leafs. I guess I do sound like that. In reality I love my Leaf. But I also love my job. I guess they are like two beautiful single interested women and having to chose which one to marry.

But still I do believe there is a bit of truth in that newer cars, EV's and hybrids in particular, are becoming less friendly for the DIY'er. And I'm not the only one who would love to be able to work on his own EV. Many people would love to drop a 40 to 60 kWh pack into their pre-2018 Leaf. Is it technically possible to do so? Yes, it has been done in certain ways with certain pros and cons. Price may be one of them.

Who knows what type of aftermarket parts will be available in the future. There is the Engineer pack already. But it just seems that whereas you can take an ICEV and drop a bigger engine into it, or a hot cam, or a bigger exhaust, you can't just drop in a bigger battery into an EV. At least the OEM's aren't cooperating. After all the world is becoming more and more a throwaway society. If we could upgrade our Leafs with $5,000 40kWh packs that would be awesome! But not even the 30kWh batteries are compatible, even though they bolt up and plug right in.
 
The first time I looked at a normally aspirated 1.5L Civic engine, with its seeming miles of vacuum hoses and serpentine belts, and terrible access, I gave up DIY engine repairs. (I had been the star of my High School auto shop classes.) The issue isn't that EVs are too complex, but it's that they require a largely different skill set than ICE cars. Kids coming up now will have no trouble with them.
 
LeftieBiker said:
The first time I looked at a normally aspirated 1.5L Civic engine, with its seeming miles of vacuum hoses and serpentine belts, and terrible access, I gave up DIY engine repairs. (I had been the star of my High School auto shop classes.) The issue isn't that EVs are too complex, but it's that they require a largely different skill set than ICE cars. Kids coming up now will have no trouble with them.

I would think I understand how an EV works much better than most kids. Most kids know nothing of what voltage, current, resitance and power really mean. And kids these days know nothing of computer programing either. Back in the days of DOS you had to make a lot of your own programs to run a computer. Now kids just download apps.

The main thing is safety. How many kids are going to short circuit themselves on a 400V battery that's capable of shooting out well over a thousand amps for a split second! Lots of rubber mats and work with your left hand tied behind your back.

This is a lot different than an ICE for sure. Everything in an ICE is about tolerances. So it's all about measuring, measuring, measuring and remeasuring, whereas on an EV it would be triple checking your high voltages are secure and isolated before applying any tools or wires to them, and even keeping low voltages secure too since even one cell shorted out could mean a complete disaster! Then programming things to check voltages, currents and temperatures for safety checks and disconnects.
 
I'm not talking about ALL kids somehow having an instinct for working on EVs. I'm talking about those with an interest in them not having trouble because they've been eased into EVs at an early age.
 
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