2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

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Lost my first bar today on my 2016 SV 30kwh Leaf.


Mfg date: 12/15
Mileage: 19,648
SOH: 80%
AHr: 64.20
Hx: 75.86
SOC: 97.4
GIDS: 293
22.7 kWh


Not too good as I'm in the Twin Cities area (cool climate for the most part). Obviously this battery is one of bad batteries manufactured late 2015.
 
Speaking of which. a 30 kwh LEAFer got his pack replaced under warranty and hit initial LEAF Spy stats are dead on target for a new 24 kwh pack...

more to follow, I guess... haven't heard anything from him lately.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
Speaking of which. a 30 kwh LEAFer got his pack replaced under warranty and hit initial LEAF Spy stats are dead on target for a new 24 kwh pack...

more to follow, I guess... haven't heard anything from him lately.
Yeah. Very strange. For anyone following, it's at https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan.leaf.owners.group/permalink/1651579951579506/. I haven't had time to follow.
 
cwerdna said:
Ahhh... Dublin gets quite hot during the summer and sometimes and is frequently within 5 to 10 degrees of the hottest cities in the Bay Area during the summer.

San Mateo's much milder.

Yep - Dublin does get quite hot by bay area standards :) As such though, I would not consider a few days of 100 degree weather and a few days of 30-33 degree weather as torture of any kind on the Leaf's battery....:) 90% of the days of the year, the temperatures are fairly moderate...

I think, most 2016/2017 30Kwh battery packs will lose a bar at around 30,000-35,000 miles...as such the loss is in line with the warrantied battery capacity of the 30Kwh pack..it will likely lose it's next bar at 65,000 miles and another bar around 105,000-110,000 miles..

The GOM has been a bit unstable the last week..it has been showing anywhere from 92-100 miles on 100% charge on different days..the varying temperatures, and some of my varying driving style are probably causing it...but I am guessing, 95 miles is the updated range of my 2016 30Kwh pack..down from the 107 miles original EPA rating...

I have a 86 miles round trip commute with access to a work place charger, so too early and hard to tell what is end of useful life for this battery pack in my use case.
 
I just wanted to add my data to the mix.

2016 SV - 30kW
Build date: 11/15
Purchased: 3/16
Miles:26000
Location: Hawaii

Battery: 3 bars gone - 63% SOH

I'm expecting to lose my 4th pretty soon and I'm looking forward to getting back my range.
 
Leaf808 said:
I just wanted to add my data to the mix.

2016 SV - 30kW
Build date: 11/15
Purchased: 3/16
Miles:26000
Location: Hawaii

Battery: 3 bars gone - 63% SOH

I'm expecting to lose my 4th pretty soon and I'm looking forward to getting back my range.

Wow! Are you parked for long periods at above 90% state-of-charge? Being so close to the ocean, I can't imagine the car ever seeing 100+ temps, unless you QC often?
 
Leaf808 said:
I just wanted to add my data to the mix.

2016 SV - 30kW
Build date: 11/15
Purchased: 3/16
Miles:26000
Location: Hawaii

Battery: 3 bars gone - 63% SOH

I'm expecting to lose my 4th pretty soon and I'm looking forward to getting back my range.
Thanks for sharing. Do you have any other data points ?
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Leaf808 said:
I just wanted to add my data to the mix.

2016 SV - 30kW
Build date: 11/15
Purchased: 3/16
Miles:26000
Location: Hawaii

Battery: 3 bars gone - 63% SOH

I'm expecting to lose my 4th pretty soon and I'm looking forward to getting back my range.

Wow! Are you parked for long periods at above 90% state-of-charge? Being so close to the ocean, I can't imagine the car ever seeing 100+ temps, unless you QC often?

I charge it daily using my L2 charger to be able to make my daily commute. It only has 1QC that the dealer must have done before I purchased. The air temps are usually 80-90 and I have never seen my battery temp gauge show more than normal.
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Leaf808 said:
I just wanted to add my data to the mix.

2016 SV - 30kW
Build date: 11/15
Purchased: 3/16
Miles:26000
Location: Hawaii

Battery: 3 bars gone - 63% SOH

I'm expecting to lose my 4th pretty soon and I'm looking forward to getting back my range.

Wow! Are you parked for long periods at above 90% state-of-charge? Being so close to the ocean, I can't imagine the car ever seeing 100+ temps, unless you QC often?

the degradation we are seeing for 2015 build 30 kwh packs are not heat related. How would you explain a pack in OR with near similar issues?
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Leaf808 said:
I just wanted to add my data to the mix.

2016 SV - 30kW
Build date: 11/15
Purchased: 3/16
Miles:26000
Location: Hawaii

Battery: 3 bars gone - 63% SOH

I'm expecting to lose my 4th pretty soon and I'm looking forward to getting back my range.

Wow! Are you parked for long periods at above 90% state-of-charge? Being so close to the ocean, I can't imagine the car ever seeing 100+ temps, unless you QC often?

the degradation we are seeing for 2015 build 30 kwh packs are not heat related. How would you explain a pack in OR with near similar issues?

That's why I was asking about whether the vehicle was kept at a high state of charge. I didn't know about the OR one.
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
Wow! Are you parked for long periods at above 90% state-of-charge? Being so close to the ocean, I can't imagine the car ever seeing 100+ temps, unless you QC often?

the degradation we are seeing for 2015 build 30 kwh packs are not heat related. How would you explain a pack in OR with near similar issues?

That's why I was asking about whether the vehicle was kept at a high state of charge. I didn't know about the OR one.

well we can pursue the general degradation questions despite the many here that have already stated they did "the right thing" or simply accept the fact Nissan put out a bad batch.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
the degradation we are seeing for 2015 build 30 kwh packs are not heat related. How would you explain a pack in OR with near similar issues?

That's why I was asking about whether the vehicle was kept at a high state of charge. I didn't know about the OR one.

well we can pursue the general degradation questions despite the many here that have already stated they did "the right thing" or simply accept the fact Nissan put out a bad batch.

I see. Forgive my ignorance, but what's the consensus on the build dates for the bad batch?
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
That's why I was asking about whether the vehicle was kept at a high state of charge. I didn't know about the OR one.

well we can pursue the general degradation questions despite the many here that have already stated they did "the right thing" or simply accept the fact Nissan put out a bad batch.

I see. Forgive my ignorance, but what's the consensus on the build dates for the bad batch?

well herein lies the issues. my attempts to gather info resulted in minimal and inconsistent data so I put together a survey and posted it in 40+ locations that 9 people filled out correctly

The 2nd issue is batteries are built in batches, not assembly line. Each batch must cure about 2 months so the build date could cover several months. The only clear thing is initial 30 kwh packs seems the most affected. Now how far into 2016 that batch extends is where we go off the rails.

Build date can be one indication but purchase dates are all over the map and despite posting instructions on how to determine build dates, the number I got was simply nowhere near enough to make any conclusions.

The latest date I got on a car showing higher than normal degradation was Feb 2016 but it very well could be a "one off" since it was a sample size of... one

So there is no consensus that the problem of a single bad batch even exists.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
well we can pursue the general degradation questions despite the many here that have already stated they did "the right thing" or simply accept the fact Nissan put out a bad batch.

I see. Forgive my ignorance, but what's the consensus on the build dates for the bad batch?

well herein lies the issues. my attempts to gather info resulted in minimal and inconsistent data so I put together a survey and posted it in 40+ locations that 9 people filled out correctly

The 2nd issue is batteries are built in batches, not assembly line. Each batch must cure about 2 months so the build date could cover several months. The only clear thing is initial 30 kwh packs seems the most affected. Now how far into 2016 that batch extends is where we go off the rails.

Build date can be one indication but purchase dates are all over the map and despite posting instructions on how to determine build dates, the number I got was simply nowhere near enough to make any conclusions.

The latest date I got on a car showing higher than normal degradation was Feb 2016 but it very well could be a "one off" since it was a sample size of... one

So there is no consensus that the problem of a single bad batch even exists.

Okay, so there's no consensus, but a strong indication that anything earlier than Feb '17 is suspect right?

At least our fellow leafer in Hawaii will qualify for a replacement soon. After which, regardless of bad batch or too much time on the dealer's lot, leaf808 shouldn't see this rapid degradation issue anymore ... maybe?


Edit: Feb '17 should've read as Feb 2016, in case anyone reads this later.
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
I see. Forgive my ignorance, but what's the consensus on the build dates for the bad batch?

well herein lies the issues. my attempts to gather info resulted in minimal and inconsistent data so I put together a survey and posted it in 40+ locations that 9 people filled out correctly

The 2nd issue is batteries are built in batches, not assembly line. Each batch must cure about 2 months so the build date could cover several months. The only clear thing is initial 30 kwh packs seems the most affected. Now how far into 2016 that batch extends is where we go off the rails.

Build date can be one indication but purchase dates are all over the map and despite posting instructions on how to determine build dates, the number I got was simply nowhere near enough to make any conclusions.

The latest date I got on a car showing higher than normal degradation was Feb 2016 but it very well could be a "one off" since it was a sample size of... one

So there is no consensus that the problem of a single bad batch even exists.

Okay, so there's no consensus, but a strong indication that anything earlier than Feb '17 is suspect right?

At least our fellow leafer in Hawaii will qualify for a replacement soon. After which, regardless of bad batch or too much time on the dealer's lot, leaf808 shouldn't see this rapid degradation issue anymore ... maybe?

nothing to do at this point but sit and wait. Most saw degradation almost immediately. The OR guy was seeing Hx degradation after just a few "weeks" dropping into the high 80's in less than 8 months only 2 months (at the time) that would even be considered "warmer"
weather.

Now I could post my stats but that is all but a waste of time because this thread will be buried with 2 dozen posts of how I don't count or my stats aren't "real" because of where I live...
 
I have been keeping track of what has been reported here and Facebook. Most did not report build dates but those who did none I have seen are after feb 2016.
I have a list of about 30 who lost bars and 8 are oct 2015 to feb 2016.
 
Sadly I am adding mine to the list. Lost my first bar on 10/13/2017... Friday the 13th . About right, I guess.

2016 SV
Mfg 1/16
Original Purchase 11/16 (50 miles on odo)

On 10/16/17 Leafspy Pro reported.

AHr = 64.77
SOH = 81%
395.19V
Hx = 79.38
odo = 6,765
1 QC, 165 L1/L2

296 GIDs - 81.1%
SOC 97.8%
22.9 kWh Ramain

It has been dropping like a rock. When I purchased it used on 8/17/17 it was reading.

Ahr = 69.91
SOH = 87%
HX = 84.52
odo = 4,488

I've been driving it as easy as possible. No freeways. Coasting in N whenever I can, avoiding the brakes and driving in ECO mode always. The max I can get for an average is 4.3 Kwh, but normal is 4.2. Does that seem low?

So far I have lost 1AHr every 442 miles. Not sure when the battery gets replaced, but I have a feeling I will be getting close by next summer. I plan another 11k miles by next August. If the trend holds, that should put me at 40 AHr. Not sure what these 30kWh batteries start at, but shouldn't 40 AHr get rid of enough bars to warrant a new battery?
 
Leafchacho said:
Sadly I am adding mine to the list. Lost my first bar on 10/13/2017... Friday the 13th . About right, I guess.

2016 SV
Mfg 1/16
Original Purchase 11/16 (50 miles on odo)

On 10/16/17 Leafspy Pro reported.

AHr = 64.77
SOH = 81%
395.19V
Hx = 79.38
odo = 6,765
1 QC, 165 L1/L2

296 GIDs - 81.1%
SOC 97.8%
22.9 kWh Ramain

It has been dropping like a rock. When I purchased it used on 8/17/17 it was reading.

Ahr = 69.91
SOH = 87%
HX = 84.52
odo = 4,488

I've been driving it as easy as possible. No freeways. Coasting in N whenever I can, avoiding the brakes and driving in ECO mode always. The max I can get for an average is 4.3 Kwh, but normal is 4.2. Does that seem low?

So far I have lost 1AHr every 442 miles. Not sure when the battery gets replaced, but I have a feeling I will be getting close by next summer. I plan another 11k miles by next August. If the trend holds, that should put me at 40 AHr. Not sure what these 30kWh batteries start at, but shouldn't 40 AHr get rid of enough bars to warrant a new battery?

Just to answer your question. Take your current AHr rating and divide it by your current SOH rating, and that'll get you the original AHr rating when new: 64.77 / 0.81 = 79.96 AHr

Others have lost their 4th bar at something above 40AHr, so you shouldn't have to wait too long.

On another front, since your battery is degrading so quickly, you might as well use it without regards to preserving battery life. You might get your warranty replacement sooner, and you might be surprised at what does or does not impact the battery health!
 
Here is the data on a Dallas Texas 2016 30KW
Lost the first bar at 8000 miles
Lost the second bar at 14000 miles
Lost the third bar at 18000 miles....

I charge at home 5-6 days a week, no QC, but I do charge to 100 percent.

By the look of the curve, I'll be losing number 4 shortly after 20000 miles. Will let you know...right now I have almost 19000 miles.

One odd thing is my range is still 90 miles, and when new I was getting 105 miles, so barely a 15 percent drop. I would expect more like 20-25% loss of range.

Here are the Leaf Pro numbers as of 18366 miles.
AHr 53.5
SOH 67%
395.42 V
Hx 64.86
SOC 97.8%
244 GIDS

I have a 3 year lease, so It's up in Dec 2018.
Hope this helps.

Ron
 
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