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GlennD said:
You can verify the settings using Nick Sayer's Simulator II. It reads the pilot and reports the current, frequency, and duty cycle. I verified the default 8A and the optional 12A on my Mercedes B EV Lear L1 EVSE. It was spot on. OpenEVSE's are correct in current but the frequency is 998 HZ instead of 1000HZ. It falls within tolerance though.
I use a clamp on Fluke ammeter which I figure is pretty much spot on. All my adjustable EVSEs draw an actual 1a less than they say so maybe it's my vehicle? In the case of the Zencar EVSE for example it shows it's set for 20a but the actual draw is a tad under 19a, same thing with my EVSEupgrade EVSE, when it blinks 20 times(meaning it's set for 20a) the actual draw is more like 19a. Again I think it's more of a safety thing than anything else, you wouldn't want it the other way around, that is drawing more than set for.

Webeleafowners, no you can go up to at least 27.5a @ 120v with a 6.6kw Leaf charger, 12a is the max for the 3.6kw charger and my Juicebox has no problem outputting the full 27.5a @ 120v on my '13 Leaf with the 6.6kw charger package.
 
jjeff said:
GlennD said:
You can verify the settings using Nick Sayer's Simulator II. It reads the pilot and reports the current, frequency, and duty cycle. I verified the default 8A and the optional 12A on my Mercedes B EV Lear L1 EVSE. It was spot on. OpenEVSE's are correct in current but the frequency is 998 HZ instead of 1000HZ. It falls within tolerance though.
I use a clamp on Fluke ammeter which I figure is pretty much spot on. All my adjustable EVSEs draw an actual 1a less than they say so maybe it's my vehicle? In the case of the Zencar EVSE for example it shows it's set for 20a but the actual draw is a tad under 19a, same thing with my EVSEupgrade EVSE, when it blinks 20 times(meaning it's set for 20a) the actual draw is more like 19a. Again I think it's more of a safety thing than anything else, you wouldn't want it the other way around, that is drawing more than set for.

Webeleafowners, no you can go up to at least 27.5a @ 120v with a 6.6kw Leaf charger, 12a is the max for the 3.6kw charger and my Juicebox has no problem outputting the full 27.5a @ 120v on my '13 Leaf with the 6.6kw charger package.

I also have a few Clamo on's. An Analog and a digital peak reading ones calibrated in RMS and a true RMS meter. They read nearly the same since the car's charger is corrected to a sine wave instead of the actual square wave of wave of a switching supply.

The only car charger that I have measured the waveform and current draw was my 2012 Leaf. At 16A it was a pretty good sine wave. at 10A it was a triangle wave with rounded points. I assume from that at full power clamp on amp meters are accurate.

The meters I frequently use are 1% at 100A. That means that they can be off 1A and still meet specifications. They are typically very close at 30A. For $10 shipped I do not know how the Chinese do it. I have not used any clamp on's in ages.
 
jjeff said:
GlennD said:
You can verify the settings using Nick Sayer's Simulator II. It reads the pilot and reports the current, frequency, and duty cycle. I verified the default 8A and the optional 12A on my Mercedes B EV Lear L1 EVSE. It was spot on. OpenEVSE's are correct in current but the frequency is 998 HZ instead of 1000HZ. It falls within tolerance though.
I use a clamp on Fluke ammeter which I figure is pretty much spot on. All my adjustable EVSEs draw an actual 1a less than they say so maybe it's my vehicle? In the case of the Zencar EVSE for example it shows it's set for 20a but the actual draw is a tad under 19a, same thing with my EVSEupgrade EVSE, when it blinks 20 times(meaning it's set for 20a) the actual draw is more like 19a. Again I think it's more of a safety thing than anything else, you wouldn't want it the other way around, that is drawing more than set for.

Webeleafowners, no you can go up to at least 27.5a @ 120v with a 6.6kw Leaf charger, 12a is the max for the 3.6kw charger and my Juicebox has no problem outputting the full 27.5a @ 120v on my '13 Leaf with the 6.6kw charger package.

Hmmm. I'll have to check it out again. We have a Nema 14-50 240 volt circuit in the garage at home so no problem getting the full 27 amp on the Leaf at home. But when we are on the road with the motorhome with the smart ED (which has a 3.3 KW charger) we only have access to a TT30 plug on our property down south. I can not get it to go over 12 amps when it is on this circuit and when I asked Juicebox about this they said it couldn't be done because of the J1772 format. Maybe I misunderstood but either way I can not get the Juice box above that on a 120 volt 30 amp circuit. When it is on the 240 volt circuit it charges at the 33 KW rate. Any thoughts. Thanks in advance.
 
By the way, both the leaf's and my current eGolf 's only care about the maximum current. They could happily charge at 24A at a 120V 30A RV socket. They do follow the pilot so they only charge at 120VAC 12A but they are quite happy breaking the 120VAC J1772 specifications.

Since I do not charge anywhere except my garage I charge at 240VAC since it is over twice as fast. I think the CCS would be more convenient than charging at a RV park.

To test this I forced my OpenEVSE to use the L2 table since the distinction is purely cosmetic.
 
I honestly don't know, but hopefully I'll find that out when I stay at an RV park in the summer and they have a TT30 receptacle to test with - or not ;) If all they have is a 14-50R then I won't complain!
 
webeleafowners said:
jjeff said:
GlennD said:
You can verify the settings using Nick Sayer's Simulator II. It reads the pilot and reports the current, frequency, and duty cycle. I verified the default 8A and the optional 12A on my Mercedes B EV Lear L1 EVSE. It was spot on. OpenEVSE's are correct in current but the frequency is 998 HZ instead of 1000HZ. It falls within tolerance though.
I use a clamp on Fluke ammeter which I figure is pretty much spot on. All my adjustable EVSEs draw an actual 1a less than they say so maybe it's my vehicle? In the case of the Zencar EVSE for example it shows it's set for 20a but the actual draw is a tad under 19a, same thing with my EVSEupgrade EVSE, when it blinks 20 times(meaning it's set for 20a) the actual draw is more like 19a. Again I think it's more of a safety thing than anything else, you wouldn't want it the other way around, that is drawing more than set for.

Webeleafowners, no you can go up to at least 27.5a @ 120v with a 6.6kw Leaf charger, 12a is the max for the 3.6kw charger and my Juicebox has no problem outputting the full 27.5a @ 120v on my '13 Leaf with the 6.6kw charger package.

Hmmm. I'll have to check it out again. We have a Nema 14-50 240 volt circuit in the garage at home so no problem getting the full 27 amp on the Leaf at home. But when we are on the road with the motorhome with the smart ED (which has a 3.3 KW charger) we only have access to a TT30 plug on our property down south. I can not get it to go over 12 amps when it is on this circuit and when I asked Juicebox about this they said it couldn't be done because of the J1772 format. Maybe I misunderstood but either way I can not get the Juice box above that on a 120 volt 30 amp circuit. When it is on the 240 volt circuit it charges at the 33 KW rate. Any thoughts. Thanks in advance.
Yes I assume the Smart ED's 3.3kw charger is like Nissans in that it stops at 12a @ 120v, but again with the 6.6kw Leaf charger it can go to 27.5a on either 120v or 240v, assuming your EVSE can output that high on 120v . I just checked and even the current Juicebox's can, from emotorwerks site about the Juicebox:
" 100-250 VAC, single phase" note on my Juicebox it has separate memories for 120 and 240v, that is you can have L2(240v) set for 20a and L1(120v) set for 27a, which I find handy. My Zencar EVSE doesn't have separate memories so whenever you change one voltage it changes the other.

I think you'll find lots of misinformation about whether a particular L2 EVSE also works on L1, it's my belief it's more of a CYA thing, since L2 EVSEs often times go to 20 or even 30a they don't want JSP plugging his 20 or 30a L2 EVSE into a standard 15 or 20a receptacle. It's like they don't seem to even know of the existence of 30a 120v outlets(TT-30 being a prime example and at most campgrounds). Of course 240v is better(twice as fast) but 24a @ 120v is still twice as fast as a OEM Leaf EVSE and equal to 12a @ 240v.
 
jjeff said:
webeleafowners said:
jjeff said:
I use a clamp on Fluke ammeter which I figure is pretty much spot on. All my adjustable EVSEs draw an actual 1a less than they say so maybe it's my vehicle? In the case of the Zencar EVSE for example it shows it's set for 20a but the actual draw is a tad under 19a, same thing with my EVSEupgrade EVSE, when it blinks 20 times(meaning it's set for 20a) the actual draw is more like 19a. Again I think it's more of a safety thing than anything else, you wouldn't want it the other way around, that is drawing more than set for.

Webeleafowners, no you can go up to at least 27.5a @ 120v with a 6.6kw Leaf charger, 12a is the max for the 3.6kw charger and my Juicebox has no problem outputting the full 27.5a @ 120v on my '13 Leaf with the 6.6kw charger package.

Hmmm. I'll have to check it out again. We have a Nema 14-50 240 volt circuit in the garage at home so no problem getting the full 27 amp on the Leaf at home. But when we are on the road with the motorhome with the smart ED (which has a 3.3 KW charger) we only have access to a TT30 plug on our property down south. I can not get it to go over 12 amps when it is on this circuit and when I asked Juicebox about this they said it couldn't be done because of the J1772 format. Maybe I misunderstood but either way I can not get the Juice box above that on a 120 volt 30 amp circuit. When it is on the 240 volt circuit it charges at the 33 KW rate. Any thoughts. Thanks in advance.
Yes I assume the Smart ED's 3.3kw charger is like Nissans in that it stops at 12a @ 120v, but again with the 6.6kw Leaf charger it can go to 27.5a on either 120v or 240v, assuming your EVSE can output that high on 120v . I just checked and even the current Juicebox's can, from emotorwerks site about the Juicebox:
" 100-250 VAC, single phase" note on my Juicebox it has separate memories for 120 and 240v, that is you can have L2(240v) set for 20a and L1(120v) set for 27a, which I find handy. My Zencar EVSE doesn't have separate memories so whenever you change one voltage it changes the other.

I think you'll find lots of misinformation about whether a particular L2 EVSE also works on L1, it's my belief it's more of a CYA thing, since L2 EVSEs often times go to 20 or even 30a they don't want JSP plugging his 20 or 30a L2 EVSE into a standard 15 or 20a receptacle. It's like they don't seem to even know of the existence of 30a 120v outlets(TT-30 being a prime example and at most campgrounds). Of course 240v is better(twice as fast) but 24a @ 120v is still twice as fast as a OEM Leaf EVSE and equal to 12a @ 240v.

Thanks for the interesting write up. Well, at least on my Smart ED connected to the Juicebox 40 Wifi that is NOT the case. So I am not sure where to go next, is it something on the smart that is doing the limiting or is it something on the Juicebox. Such a waste to have the 30TT able to supply 30 amp and not be able to use it. Any ideas where to start??
 
webeleafowners said:
jjeff said:
webeleafowners said:
Hmmm. I'll have to check it out again. We have a Nema 14-50 240 volt circuit in the garage at home so no problem getting the full 27 amp on the Leaf at home. But when we are on the road with the motorhome with the smart ED (which has a 3.3 KW charger) we only have access to a TT30 plug on our property down south. I can not get it to go over 12 amps when it is on this circuit and when I asked Juicebox about this they said it couldn't be done because of the J1772 format. Maybe I misunderstood but either way I can not get the Juice box above that on a 120 volt 30 amp circuit. When it is on the 240 volt circuit it charges at the 33 KW rate. Any thoughts. Thanks in advance.
Yes I assume the Smart ED's 3.3kw charger is like Nissans in that it stops at 12a @ 120v, but again with the 6.6kw Leaf charger it can go to 27.5a on either 120v or 240v, assuming your EVSE can output that high on 120v . I just checked and even the current Juicebox's can, from emotorwerks site about the Juicebox:
" 100-250 VAC, single phase" note on my Juicebox it has separate memories for 120 and 240v, that is you can have L2(240v) set for 20a and L1(120v) set for 27a, which I find handy. My Zencar EVSE doesn't have separate memories so whenever you change one voltage it changes the other.

I think you'll find lots of misinformation about whether a particular L2 EVSE also works on L1, it's my belief it's more of a CYA thing, since L2 EVSEs often times go to 20 or even 30a they don't want JSP plugging his 20 or 30a L2 EVSE into a standard 15 or 20a receptacle. It's like they don't seem to even know of the existence of 30a 120v outlets(TT-30 being a prime example and at most campgrounds). Of course 240v is better(twice as fast) but 24a @ 120v is still twice as fast as a OEM Leaf EVSE and equal to 12a @ 240v.

Thanks for the interesting write up. Well, at least on my Smart ED connected to the Juicebox 40 Wifi that is NOT the case. So I am not sure where to go next, is it something on the smart that is doing the limiting or is it something on the Juicebox. Such a waste to have the 30TT able to supply 30 amp and not be able to use it. Any ideas where to start??
Yes I believe it's your Smart ED limiting the 120v charging to 12a, just like the 3.3kw Leaf charger would. EVs will always charge at the lowest of either the EVSE maximum output or charger in the car, in the case of only charging at 12a @ 120v with your Juicebox it's the car limiting the charging to 12a. The same EVSE hooked to a 6.6kw Leaf charger would draw 27.5a @ 120v(or whatever you've set your Juicebox maximum output to but not more than 27.5 as that's the maximum the Leaf will accept).
I'm not aware of a maximum J1772 current using 120v but I'd assume it would be the same as 240v, whatever that is.
 
jjeff said:
webeleafowners said:
jjeff said:
Yes I assume the Smart ED's 3.3kw charger is like Nissans in that it stops at 12a @ 120v, but again with the 6.6kw Leaf charger it can go to 27.5a on either 120v or 240v, assuming your EVSE can output that high on 120v . I just checked and even the current Juicebox's can, from emotorwerks site about the Juicebox:
" 100-250 VAC, single phase" note on my Juicebox it has separate memories for 120 and 240v, that is you can have L2(240v) set for 20a and L1(120v) set for 27a, which I find handy. My Zencar EVSE doesn't have separate memories so whenever you change one voltage it changes the other.

I think you'll find lots of misinformation about whether a particular L2 EVSE also works on L1, it's my belief it's more of a CYA thing, since L2 EVSEs often times go to 20 or even 30a they don't want JSP plugging his 20 or 30a L2 EVSE into a standard 15 or 20a receptacle. It's like they don't seem to even know of the existence of 30a 120v outlets(TT-30 being a prime example and at most campgrounds). Of course 240v is better(twice as fast) but 24a @ 120v is still twice as fast as a OEM Leaf EVSE and equal to 12a @ 240v.

Thanks for the interesting write up. Well, at least on my Smart ED connected to the Juicebox 40 Wifi that is NOT the case. So I am not sure where to go next, is it something on the smart that is doing the limiting or is it something on the Juicebox. Such a waste to have the 30TT able to supply 30 amp and not be able to use it. Any ideas where to start??
Yes I believe it's your Smart ED limiting the 120v charging to 12a, just like the 3.3kw Leaf charger would. EVs will always charge at the lowest of either the EVSE maximum output or charger in the car, in the case of only charging at 12a @ 120v with your Juicebox it's the car limiting the charging to 12a. The same EVSE hooked to a 6.6kw Leaf charger would draw 27.5a @ 120v(or whatever you've set your Juicebox maximum output to but not more than 27.5 as that's the maximum the Leaf will accept).
I'm not aware of a maximum J1772 current using 120v but I'd assume it would be the same as 240v, whatever that is.

Think I got it. Its not a power thing, (3.3K) its a current thing. Regardless of 240 or 120 it will limit to 12 amps (technically I think 11.7 or something like that) Is that right? Eg if I want the full three 3.3 KW I need to be on 240 volt.
 
webeleafowners said:
jjeff said:
webeleafowners said:
Thanks for the interesting write up. Well, at least on my Smart ED connected to the Juicebox 40 Wifi that is NOT the case. So I am not sure where to go next, is it something on the smart that is doing the limiting or is it something on the Juicebox. Such a waste to have the 30TT able to supply 30 amp and not be able to use it. Any ideas where to start??
Yes I believe it's your Smart ED limiting the 120v charging to 12a, just like the 3.3kw Leaf charger would. EVs will always charge at the lowest of either the EVSE maximum output or charger in the car, in the case of only charging at 12a @ 120v with your Juicebox it's the car limiting the charging to 12a. The same EVSE hooked to a 6.6kw Leaf charger would draw 27.5a @ 120v(or whatever you've set your Juicebox maximum output to but not more than 27.5 as that's the maximum the Leaf will accept).
I'm not aware of a maximum J1772 current using 120v but I'd assume it would be the same as 240v, whatever that is.

Think I got it. Its not a power thing, (3.3K) its a current thing. Regardless of 240 or 120 it will limit to 12 amps (technically I think 11.7 or something like that) Is that right? Eg if I want the full three 3.3 KW I need to be on 240 volt.
Correct, to get 3.3kw you need to use 240v.
 
jjeff said:
webeleafowners said:
jjeff said:
Yes I believe it's your Smart ED limiting the 120v charging to 12a, just like the 3.3kw Leaf charger would. EVs will always charge at the lowest of either the EVSE maximum output or charger in the car, in the case of only charging at 12a @ 120v with your Juicebox it's the car limiting the charging to 12a. The same EVSE hooked to a 6.6kw Leaf charger would draw 27.5a @ 120v(or whatever you've set your Juicebox maximum output to but not more than 27.5 as that's the maximum the Leaf will accept).
I'm not aware of a maximum J1772 current using 120v but I'd assume it would be the same as 240v, whatever that is.

Think I got it. Its not a power thing, (3.3K) its a current thing. Regardless of 240 or 120 it will limit to 12 amps (technically I think 11.7 or something like that) Is that right? Eg if I want the full three 3.3 KW I need to be on 240 volt.
Correct, to get 3.3kw you need to use 240v.

Thanks for staying with me on this. It' wasn't the math or the physics that I was struggling with (technologist by trade) but the design limitations and understanding what was doing the current limiting that I wasn't sure of.
 
jjeff said:
I'm not aware of a maximum J1772 current using 120v but I'd assume it would be the same as 240v, whatever that is.
"The standard as now written addresses two charging levels:

AC Level 1: 120 V, 1 phase, up to 16 A

AC Level 2: 240 V, 1 phase, up to 80 A" -- http://articles.sae.org/7479/

(IIRC it was originally 32 A max @ 240 V, but Tesla lobbied for the increase.)

Now, obviously a cable which is capable of 32 A @ 240 V could just as well do it @ 120 V, but technically it is (was?) outside of the standard.
 
wmcbrine said:
jjeff said:
I'm not aware of a maximum J1772 current using 120v but I'd assume it would be the same as 240v, whatever that is.
"The standard as now written addresses two charging levels:

AC Level 1: 120 V, 1 phase, up to 16 A

AC Level 2: 240 V, 1 phase, up to 80 A" -- http://articles.sae.org/7479/

(IIRC it was originally 32 A max @ 240 V, but Tesla lobbied for the increase.)

Now, obviously a cable which is capable of 32 A @ 240 V could just as well do it @ 120 V, but technically it is (was?) outside of the standard.
Interesting, thanks. It's odd then that my '13 Leaf(with 6.6kw charger) will draw the same 27.5a @ either 120v or 240v :? but I agree about the gauge of the wire, if anything a particular gauge wire should be able to draw even more current @ a lower voltage, due to less watts of heat dissipated by the wire but maybe I'm thinking wrong. For sure a lower voltage wouldn't be any harder on the wire :)
 
jjeff said:
wmcbrine said:
jjeff said:
I'm not aware of a maximum J1772 current using 120v but I'd assume it would be the same as 240v, whatever that is.
"The standard as now written addresses two charging levels:

AC Level 1: 120 V, 1 phase, up to 16 A

AC Level 2: 240 V, 1 phase, up to 80 A" -- http://articles.sae.org/7479/

(IIRC it was originally 32 A max @ 240 V, but Tesla lobbied for the increase.)

Now, obviously a cable which is capable of 32 A @ 240 V could just as well do it @ 120 V, but technically it is (was?) outside of the standard.
Interesting, thanks. It's odd then that my '13 Leaf(with 6.6kw charger) will draw the same 27.5a @ either 120v or 240v :? but I agree about the gauge of the wire, if anything a particular gauge wire should be able to draw even more current @ a lower voltage, due to less watts of heat dissipated by the wire but maybe I'm thinking wrong. For sure a lower voltage wouldn't be any harder on the wire :)
If the cable from the EVSE is #10 AWG ( or equivalent) supplying 30 A , no problem!
 
Both my current eGolf and my 2013 Leaf violate the J1772 spec. The car's only care about current and they ignore the voltage. They follow the pilot so the included L1 charger at 12A works well. If you ignore the L1 specs and set your EVSE to charge at 24A then you can safely charge at high current at 120VAC. This is not to specification and you need an EVSE that ignores the J1772 specifications. Given all of that 24A at a truck stop or RV park is doable. I know OpenEVSE works but I have not tried others. From the comments the JuiceBox is limited to 12A.. It really depends on the EVSE.
 
The Zencar 32A portable EVSE that I just purchased is supposed to, although I can't confirm that unequivocally until I visit an RV park and give it a go with a TT30 receptacle.

Jjeff can probably confirm that, as he recommended the Zencar to me and owns one himself...
 
wmcbrine said:
Now, obviously a cable which is capable of 32 A @ 240 V could just as well do it @ 120 V, but technically it is (was?) outside of the standard.

Outside the US, the SAE-J1772-2009 / 2010 plug / Type 1 (Europe) / Yazaki plug (Japan) is limited to 30 amps maximum. In Europe, in practice, Type 1 is limited to 16 amps.

The singular thing the SAE did (after copying the Yazaki plug) was drastically change the amps and acknowledge the US standards or 120 and 208/240v in the US. I have no idea what theywere talking about in "5000 hours of meetings", because the actual end product is a Yazaki plug design. Most of the electronic design is from the AVCON predecessor.

Again, please understand that these SAE restrictions to amps only applies to the US, and it's not a law. So, everybody follows the actual IEC 62196-2 worldwide standards, that were preceded by the IEC 61851-2001 / SAE J1772-2001 "AVCON" standards for proximity detection and for the control pilot function.

I'm not aware of many cars that are specifically limited to 16 amps or less on 100-130 volts. The BMW i3 is, the Volt, and probably the Bolt. I'm sure there are others.

The LEAF is not. It will charge up to 27.5 amps from 100 volts to 264 volts. Tesla products (which includes 2012-2014 Toyota Rav4 EV and Mercedes B-Class ED / B250e) are limited to 20 amps on 100-130 volts, however the newer cars post 2015 are now 24 amps. This is perfect for plugging into RV parks / campgrounds with "30 amp service".

On the charge cable side of the equation, I suspect many commercially available EVSE are limited to 12 amps on 120 volts. The Tesla UMC / JESLA is not (40 amps max). Our Go-Cable is not (16 amps max on 100-264 volts).
 
webeleafowners said:
I would be curious which EVSE's ignore the J1772 rules. For example, does the duosida ignore do this? How about the units from "EVSE upgrade".

Thanks in advance.
It's my guess that all the L2 EVSEs that also work on 120v ignore the 12a limit. I know all mine do and will happily charge at 120v at all the current settings they will do on 240v. Well I guess except my '13 EVSEupgrade'd EVSE which will do 20a L2 but restricts 120v to 12a :(
Note I'm almost positive the new Juiceboxe's output full amperage on 120v, their old ones do and from looking at their website it looks like the new ones do, I know I personally wouldn't be interested in any EVSE that didn't :)
 
jjeff said:
webeleafowners said:
I would be curious which EVSE's ignore the J1772 rules. For example, does the duosida ignore do this? How about the units from "EVSE upgrade".

Thanks in advance.
It's my guess that all the L2 EVSEs that also work on 120v ignore the 12a limit. I know all mine do and will happily charge at 120v at all the current settings they will do on 240v. Well I guess except my '13 EVSEupgrade'd EVSE which will do 20a L2 but restricts 120v to 12a :(
Note I'm almost positive the new Juiceboxe's output full amperage on 120v, their old ones do and from looking at their website it looks like the new ones do, I know I personally wouldn't be interested in any EVSE that didn't :)

Well, at least on our smart car, our leads than one year old juice box only charges at 12 amps on 120. Haven't tried the leaf yet.
 
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