Does Trump's Election Spell the End for Federal EV Subsidies?

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LeftieBiker said:
... or a barely-warmed-over Leaf That will be affordable (until the subsidy is gone) but outdated.
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Interesting you mentioned this topic. Currently, my LEAF is at 41K miles (out of 45K on the lease) and the lease is due in May. My own valuation of the car is roughly 1/2 the residual buyout (at least what I would be willing to pay to keep it). So, almost certain this car is going to be returned in May with 44,997 miles and walk away from what is likely one of the best cars I've ever had. In recent months, I've starting looking around at what is next and not seeing much else available in this area as for EV's. The odd thing is LEAF's are so rare in this area they still look like a brand new model. The quirky styling is almost like having an iconic air-cooled VW Beetle.
 
rmay635703 said:
I guess you are a unicorn.
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With a J1772 tail!

rmay635703 said:
There are only 3 out hundreds where I work that view Evs positively, 1 out of 10 is a democrat.

That said my own very liberal aunt and uncle were leaning into me telling me my ev was too expensive to operate, even after I told them $17,500 out the door brand new and free electric.

Most Americans are more concerned with image than actual utility, cost or environmental issues.

I think most are trying to live in a fantasy world.

They don't want to be bothered to think.
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I've heard various stories from times gone by of how bread and cereal vendors stocking store shelves would push all their competitors products down to the end of the aisle and display their own products over as much shelf space as possible. It's a simple reality that if my hamburger buns take up 20 feet of shelf space and yours only occupy 2 feet I will sell ten times as much as you.
I think it is much the same with cars.
The largest Nissan dealer in Florida has just over 1100 new vehicles in stock. Three of them are LEAFs. I've talked to their sales people, they will tell you that they sell a couple a month to people that specifically come in wanting one. One guy told me, if a customer asks for a LEAF he won't ever suggest a gas car, but conversely he won't try to sell a LEAF to a buyer who isn't already educated or interested.
The reality remains, once you get out of California or maybe some other CARB states, your choice is a LEAF, a Volt, or Tesla. That's not a lot of choices, sort of like having 1/8th of an inch of shelf space for your hamburger buns while your competitor has 100 feet.
 
rogersleaf said:
LeftieBiker said:
... or a barely-warmed-over Leaf That will be affordable (until the subsidy is gone) but outdated.
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Interesting you mentioned this topic. Currently, my LEAF is at 41K miles (out of 45K on the lease) and the lease is due in May. My own valuation of the car is roughly 1/2 the residual buyout (at least what I would be willing to pay to keep it). So, almost certain this car is going to be returned in May with 44,997 miles and walk away from what is likely one of the best cars I've ever had. In recent months, I've starting looking around at what is next and not seeing much else available in this area as for EV's. The odd thing is LEAF's are so rare in this area they still look like a brand new model. The quirky styling is almost like having an iconic air-cooled VW Beetle.
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love your timing. you will have 3X more choices than I had. I just turned mine in on Thurs and returned home with an S 30. same price as the old one.
 
LeftieBiker said:
It's quite true that this subsidy is almost literally the least of our worries, but for those like me who can only afford a new EV if it's leased and the subsidy is applied to the lease, it's pretty important on the personal scale.
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Then why not buy used? In the long run, buying cars that are a few years old, and holding onto them for a while, can be a great way to save money. Sure, one won't get all of the latest and greatest features this way, but as long as one's requirements are met, who cares?
 
Due to CARB requirements, those in California will continue to have a great selection of new and used (lease return, etc.) EVs to choose from after the Federal tax credits disappear. Without mandates and/or incentives to sell them, car makers are likely to discontinue offering them in other markets. Hopefully, BMW, Nissan, and Tesla will continue to offer them nationwide.


Gerry
 
Any way you slice it the path leads to solar panels making electricity and BEVs for transportation.
This will continue to slowly creep into the fabric of our economy regardless of the president.

We can go right back to the '70s when the stodgy American car manufacturers were getting killed by reliability and fuel efficiency of the imports. BEVs are just the next level up. GM can survive only so long on 10 mpg Suburbans and Corvettes. Just wait until OPEC realizes we are addicted again....
 
LeftieBiker said:
Then why not buy used?
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I need a 100 mile range car. 200 is optional, but 100 is necessary, so I can actually drive 70 miles in Winter.
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my Winters are nothing compared to yours (as it is, Fall was eliminated by Global Warming this year it seems...) but my LEAF will do at least 110 in crap weather and got a realistic range near 130 miles the other day (but realize with no Fall, it was Summer weather.. :) )
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
(as it is, Fall was eliminated by Global Warming this year it seems...)
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Perhaps it seems that way to you, but you cannot sense a temperature difference of only 0.4 degrees Celsius above the average:

UAH_LT_1979_thru_October_2016_v6-550x318.gif

The unseasonably-warm temperatures in NA this fall are due to two factors: 1) The polar vortex is pushing incredibly cold weather to Russia, making it warmer here and 2) we just had one of the largest El Ninos on record. Those are two things we can feel.
 
Kinda surprised that nobody has mentioned the possible fate of the "electric highways" initiative (I forget the exact name) that was rolled out just a week or two ago, promising basically a chargepoint every 50 miles on interstate routes throughout the United States. Wonder how THAT will fare? In my opinion, that is at least as important as tax credits for EV purchases in promoting the wider acceptance of EVs.

Case in point: my plan as of a week ago was to give my Leaf to my kid next year and buy a new EV, possibly the BMW i3... in the hopes that by next year, I can actually drive the damn thing from my location (Texas) to hers (upper midwest). Right now there's such a long dry spell between OK and KS that I don't think I could actually get it from point A to point B without putting it on a flatbed. I had high hopes that it would be possible within a year. Not so sure now... thoughts?
 
DanCar said:
evnow said:
Even if we don't go to where Trump will likely go (Authoritarian Dystopia) - a recession on global scale and disruption in trade in possible.
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Yes and alternative possibility is that the U.S. middle class gets rich.
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If you follow me on twitter you will find that I'm hardly a neo-liberal. Infact here is my pinned tweet.

Every Neoliberal who supported the worst Democratic nominee needs to take responsibility for the defeat. (@EVNow)
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But, then, globalization is a Pandora's box that has been opened. To put stuff back in the box without disruption is not possible. What can be done is to make moving manufacturing jobs difficult and make companies pay heavily for it i.e. make it their responsibility to retrain and get the people being laid off get decent jobs.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
The guy in the cube next to me is a liberal Democrat, freaking out over the outcome of this election.
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He is right to freakout - it is not common in modern times for white supremacists like Bannon to be the strategy guy at the white house.

We've never been this close to fascism.
 
evnow said:
DanCar said:
evnow said:
Even if we don't go to where Trump will likely go (Authoritarian Dystopia) - a recession on global scale and disruption in trade in possible.
Click to expand...
Yes and alternative possibility is that the U.S. middle class gets rich.
Click to expand...
If you follow me on twitter you will find that I'm hardly a neo-liberal. Infact here is my pinned tweet.
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Sorry didn't mean to imply you are a neo-liberal. I think you are just awesome! :D
Every Neoliberal who supported the worst Democratic nominee needs to take responsibility for the defeat. (@EVNow)
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But, then, globalization is a Pandora's box that has been opened. To put stuff back in the box without disruption is not possible. What can be done is to make moving manufacturing jobs difficult and make companies pay heavily for it i.e. make it their responsibility to retrain and get the people being laid off get decent jobs.
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Well China doesn't play very fair. Google is not allowed to play there. Car companies are required to buy their batteries from Chinese firms, the list goes on and on. It will be very easy to level the playing field.
 
Now that the 2017 Leaf has been announced formally, it makes a lot of sense to bargain the bejesus out of a dealer on a 2016 model. There is no real difference between model years and even the 2016 S comes with the same 30KWH battery (as long as it was manufactured after June). If you can buy or lease a Leaf for $15K after rebates and tax incentives, that's a sweet deal. Even if Tump eliminates the Federal subsidies, it will take a year or two to do it and if you buy now you can take advantage of it before it goes away. You'll never get to take advantage of a Federal subsidy on a Tesla III anyway since they have pre-sold so many that the subsidy is being phased out for them.
 
Even if Tump eliminates the Federal subsidies, it will take a year or two to do it and if you buy now you can take advantage of it before it goes away.
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I'm predicting three months, but it could take as little as one (after the Inauguration) and as many as six. Trump can do it with an Executive Order, I believe. If he has to ask the Republican-controlled Congress to do it, then only bureaucratic inertia will slow it down.
 
Every other Donald Trump prediction over the last two years has turned out to be wrong, so my guess is that the new administration will increase EV subsidies and include a nationwide DCFC network expansion as part of a massive infrastructure initiative.

It's going to be beautiful.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
Every other Donald Trump prediction over the last two years has turned out to be wrong, so my guess is that the new administration will increase EV subsidies and include a nationwide DCFC network expansion as part of a massive infrastructure initiative.

It's going to be beautiful.
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I agree. He is staunchly against limiting CO2, but is pro clean air. He will need to prove that by increasing EV tax credit to $10K for 100 kWh batteries. His rich friends will appreciate the tax cut on a luxury car. :)
 
evnow said:
LTLFTcomposite said:
The guy in the cube next to me is a liberal Democrat, freaking out over the outcome of this election.
Click to expand...
He is right to freakout - it is not common in modern times for white supremacists like Bannon to be the strategy guy at the white house.

We've never been this close to fascism.
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Actually that is a regressive leftist trait, ie the SJW's are the fascists "You can't say that cuase muh feelins!!" and they are the ones who want a thought crimes unit!

And most of trump supporters aren't supremacists but they aren't idiots, the SJW's directly are attacking whites, specifically, thus a push back was needed. It is more happen stance that he happened to attract the cooks from the wood work, but they are just a symptom of the core problem of the SJW's created
 

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