Hacking the VSP Box (Noise Maker)

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For those who even consider an idea that Noise Maker makes presence in traffic somewhat different, think again.
Most other EV-s and PHEV do NOT have that and no reports (anywhere in the world) about people not hearing.
At speeds VSP sound is heard there is almost no accidents at all (with pedestrians). The only exception is reverse.



From my perspective traffic is very noisy. The only people who rely on sound are deaf people. And VSP doesn't help
them as they do not practice jaywalking. And they hear vehicles.

And again, I should repeat: no accidents with other EV-s PHEV-s. VSP is just unnecessary precaution. It was reasonable
to try it out on 2011/2012 models but going on with that is just foolish.
 
Could you PM me a price for both options msport? The vsp triggers my tinnitus in slow traffic so I would be interested in turning it off when safe to do so.

Thanks?
 
Add me to the list as well.

want-logo.jpg
 
arnis said:
Most other EV-s and PHEV do NOT have that and no reports (anywhere in the world) about people not hearing.
At speeds VSP sound is heard there is almost no accidents at all (with pedestrians). The only exception is reverse.
AFAIK, every single Toyota and Lexus (non-plugin) hybrid, PHEV (e.g. Plug-in Prius) and EV (e.g. CA compliance car Gen 2 Rav4 EV) from 2012+ model year has their noisemaker aka VPNS. You can hear it at http://priuschat.com/threads/2012-prius-vehicle-proximity-notification-system-vpns-video.104980/. I hear most definitely hear them in parking lots (usually from Priuses and sometimes from Lexus CTs, besides the other usual vehicles). I have driven the 2012 PiP and 2015 non-plugin Prius and both of these of model years in between + the Rav4 EV a few times.

Prior to model year 2012, Toyota didn't put on any noisemakers.

To get any idea of US sales volume, add up all the Toyota and Lexus hybrids, PHEVs and EVs CY numbers at http://www.hybridcars.com/december-2014-dashboard/ and http://www.hybridcars.com/december-2015-dashboard/. http://toyotanews.pressroom.toyota.com/releases/tms+december+2015+sales+chart.htm has all of the Prius family lumped together. In 2015 alone in the US, Toyota sold about double the amount of Priuses (184K) of ALL Leafs that have ever been sold/leased in the US since it began in Dec 2010 (http://insideevs.com/nissan-leaf-ends-2015-with-nearly-90000-cumulative-sales-in-u-s/).

Although I've had no time nor motivation to participate in the discussion/debate, bwilson4web at Priuschat used to often complaint about "bell the hybrid" and his dislike of noisemakers. Google for site:priuschat.com bell the hybrid.

I don't know the validity of the studies or claims at http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3011957/Nearly-silent-electric-hybrid-cars-risk-pedestrians-Walkers-40-likely-involved-accident.html and http://www.slate.com/articles/business/gearbox/2012/05/hybrid_and_electric_cars_too_quiet_why_they_re_dangerous_to_pedestrians_.html, but I did find them via a quick Google search.

Fisker Karma has a noisemaker. Fiat 500e also supposedly has a noisemaker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3r9LRGMHEY. I can't speak to Hyundai's current status, but the Sonata Hybrid got a noisemaker (http://www.autoblog.com/2011/02/24/hyundai-sonata-hybrid-delay-due-to-modifications-of-virtual-engi/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tFgF9bhdWA, http://worldwide.hyundai.com/WW/Showroom/Eco/Sonata-Hybrid/PIP/index.html). Hyundai's term is virtual engine sound system.
 
Exactly. I also don't know validity of studies. We can't even have any papers about those studies that
support "silent killer" headlines.

One thing I don't understand is that vehicles that are moving 1-10mph (range when EV-s are not hear easily)
can stop faster than 10 meters. That is so slow that even hitting a pedestrial at that speed most likely
will not even leave a dent on the car. Having "small accident" is really a good thing, not a bad thing.
Most likely that person will never get into such accident, ever. But in reality driver will brake and will stop
very rapidly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_warning_sounds#European_Union
So even here we can't see studies that prove effectiveness (less accidents). "They just did it".
 
arnis said:
... One thing I don't understand is that vehicles that are moving 1-10mph (range when EV-s are not hear easily)
can stop faster than 10 meters. That is so slow that even hitting a pedestrial at that speed most likely
will not even leave a dent on the car. Having "small accident" is really a good thing, not a bad thing.
Most likely that person will never get into such accident, ever. But in reality driver will brake and will stop
very rapidly.
...
:eek: :shock: :eek: :shock:

A grossly absurd statement.
At 10 mph the car may not be dented.
But a significantly high probability the pedestrian will be seriously injured.
Or could be dead from brain injury when they fall.
 
TimLee said:
arnis said:
... One thing I don't understand is that vehicles that are moving 1-10mph (range when EV-s are not hear easily)
can stop faster than 10 meters. That is so slow that even hitting a pedestrial at that speed most likely
will not even leave a dent on the car. Having "small accident" is really a good thing, not a bad thing.
Most likely that person will never get into such accident, ever. But in reality driver will brake and will stop
very rapidly.
...
:eek: :shock: :eek: :shock:

A grossly absurd statement.
At 10 mph the car may not be dented.
But a significantly high probability the pedestrian will be seriously injured.
Or could be dead from brain injury when they fall.


Once again opinions without any specific data that supports that opinion :|

12mph2.gif

image4.gif


As we know kinetic energy formula is exponential we can estimate that probability of any injury
at speeds up to 10mph. And that is way below 20%.


Some reading:
http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/research/pub/HS809012.html
 
arnis said:
TimLee said:
arnis said:
... One thing I don't understand is that vehicles that are moving 1-10mph (range when EV-s are not hear easily)
can stop faster than 10 meters. That is so slow that even hitting a pedestrial at that speed most likely
will not even leave a dent on the car. Having "small accident" is really a good thing, not a bad thing.
Most likely that person will never get into such accident, ever. But in reality driver will brake and will stop
very rapidly.
...
:eek: :shock: :eek: :shock:

A grossly absurd statement.
At 10 mph the car may not be dented.
But a significantly high probability the pedestrian will be seriously injured.
Or could be dead from brain injury when they fall.


Once again opinions without any specific data that supports that opinion :|


image4.gif


As we know kinetic energy formula is exponential we can estimate that probability of any injury
at speeds up to 10mph. And that is way below 20%.


Some reading:
http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/research/pub/HS809012.html

Tim is right about serious injuries at 10 mph from the NHTSA graph even if he was implied a higher than minimal risk of death. Even then the risk of death is not 0%, It might be low risk to be hit by a car at 5 mph but people do die that way.

another factor to consider is EU requires crash testing vs pedestrians and will mark a car as unsafe if it is more likely to injure or kill a pedestrian. US does not do that and cars sold in the US often have slight modifications to save money that make them less safe here than they would be in Europe.

US will probably add testing but it's highly likely to be less strict than the pedestrian testing in the EU.
 
From real life. A couple of years ago, I was crossing the street in downtown boston, in the crosswalk with the walk signal.
A prius decided to make a right on red and missed me by a couple of inches. I had no idea he was there since he was coming from behind and trying to pass in front of me, until he almost hit me.
And yes, I was listening, there was no sound.
 
arnis said:
As we know kinetic energy formula is exponential we can estimate that probability of any injury
at speeds up to 10mph. And that is way below 20%.
If you really think that the risk is low after being hit at up to 10 mph, how about we run our Leafs into you at 9 or 10 mph a bunch of times, including making sure you end up under the wheels a few times?

You will most definitely sustain serious injuries.
 
cwerdna said:
arnis said:
As we know kinetic energy formula is exponential we can estimate that probability of any injury
at speeds up to 10mph. And that is way below 20%.
If you really think that the risk is low after being hit at up to 10 mph, how about we run our Leafs into you at 9 or 10 mph a bunch of times, including making sure you end up under the wheels a few times?

You will most definitely sustain serious injuries.
I agree, "Correlation does not imply causation" because even if the injury rate is low, it says nothing about the circumstances that could have prevented the injury. So even if only a few people are being hit by EV a week because they don't hear the vehicle does not mean it is not worth the time and research to prevent those few people from being injured in the first place, even if minor by whatever standards they use to define what a minor injury is.
 
I would still just like to know the price for a DIY kit or a final kit before the thread is taken over :)
 
I too would like to get one of these complete ready to install.
All this noiseless theory should be on another thread.
How many years have luxury car manufacturers aspired for a silent smooth ride.
Now we finally get close, and we get an artificial noisemaker installed.
Great Idea, I get it, but don't eliminate my choice and options.

Anyway, I WANT ONE, and a video of how to install it.
I would like a default on or default off option IN THE KIT if possible.
Yes, Ive been on here for 4 years, I've seen the default on, default off thread.

Thanks
 
mhramr said:
... Hope the OP isn't getting concerned about all the flaming going on in here.... :shock:
I'm sure the OP has an excellent attorney working on a liability release document that purchaser will have to have notarized and returned with payment to purchase the product ;)

Of course if we shutdown everyone selling something that violates NHTSA guidelines, over 1000 window tint installers would be out of business :roll: :eek:
 
It seems like we have around twenty people interested at the moment.

Connectors and terminals come in around $15 and the factory switch is around $15 as well. Wire, heat shrink and strain relief will be another $10, but keep in mind I'm using all mil-spec material: Tefzel wiring, DR-25 heat shrink, and SCL for strain relief. Anyone doing it themselves can obviously use whatever material they would like. It takes an hour to build a harness, add another 15-20 minutes if you want it labeled with 3:1 heat shrink.
 
Msportronics said:
It seems like we have around twenty people interested at the moment.

Connectors and terminals come in around $15 and the factory switch is around $15 as well. Wire, heat shrink and strain relief will be another $10, but keep in mind I'm using all mil-spec material: Tefzel wiring, DR-25 heat shrink, and SCL for strain relief. Anyone doing it themselves can obviously use whatever material they would like. It takes an hour to build a harness, add another 15-20 minutes if you want it labeled with 3:1 heat shrink.

Count me in as one of the twenty!! :)
 
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