Lizard Pack Holding Up

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DNAinaGoodWay said:
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100775_nissans-60-kwh-200-mile-battery-pack-what-we-know-so-far
OK, I am convinced. Thanks. Nissan better have a damn good capacity warranty if they want to get my business again.
 
Stoaty said:
DNAinaGoodWay said:
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100775_nissans-60-kwh-200-mile-battery-pack-what-we-know-so-far
OK, I am convinced. Thanks. Nissan better have a damn good capacity warranty if they want to get my business again.

I just had a 24kWh battery replaced under warranty. Guess what the warranty is on the (replacement).... 12 months/12,000 miles. Now on my other car, a new traction battery was installed 13 months ago and would be out of warranty except that it is still under the original 5yr/60,000mi warranty period until the end of this summer.
 
Evoforce said:
I just had a 24kWh battery replaced under warranty. Guess what the warranty is on the (replacement).... 12 months/12,000 miles. Now on my other car, a new traction battery was installed 13 months ago and would be out of warranty except that it is still under the original 5yr/60,000mi warranty period until the end of this summer.

Well, on the upside someone who pays for a new battery out of pocket can consider it a $6000 lottery ticket for a new pack down the road :)
 
I just had a 24kWh battery replaced under warranty. Guess what the warranty is on the (replacement).... 12 months/12,000 miles. Now on my other car, a new traction battery was installed 13 months ago and would be out of warranty except that it is still under the original 5yr/60,000mi warranty period until the end of this summer.[/quote]

This is industry standard for any replacement part. 12/12 OR your original warranty, which ever is greater.
 
Stoaty said:
DNAinaGoodWay said:
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100775_nissans-60-kwh-200-mile-battery-pack-what-we-know-so-far
OK, I am convinced. Thanks. Nissan better have a damn good capacity warranty if they want to get my business again.

I'm hoping it's not finalized yet and they at least go with forced air TM like the eNV200. 60 kWh and possibly 100 kW QCs seems to require it, but I'm not an electrical engineer, and they seem to think they know what they're doing, so I guess time will tell. I'll do at least one more lease cycle to hedge my bets. Unless I go for a Model 3. Can't wait for the reveal.

But, back to the topic, my '15's pack, at 17k, shows the same readings as when it was new.
 
Valdemar said:
Evoforce said:
I just had a 24kWh battery replaced under warranty. Guess what the warranty is on the (replacement).... 12 months/12,000 miles. Now on my other car, a new traction battery was installed 13 months ago and would be out of warranty except that it is still under the original 5yr/60,000mi warranty period until the end of this summer.

Well, on the upside someone who pays for a new battery out of pocket can consider it a $6000 lottery ticket for a new pack down the road :)

That would be the one benefit for having to purchase one is that it would (I assume) have the 5 yr/60,000 warranty.
 
Why would anyone believe anything in greencarreports when they make the following incompetent statement:

"Nissan made the original Leaf battery pack completely air-cooled, and while there were some early, isolated issues in very hot climates like Arizona, those seem to be largely solved today. "
 
TimLee said:
Why would anyone believe anything in greencarreports when they make the following incompetent statement:

"Nissan made the original Leaf battery pack completely air-cooled, and while there were some early, isolated issues in very hot climates like Arizona, those seem to be largely solved today. "

Yea, I read that too and I thought... Someone absolutely got some misinformation on that one or they were wishful thinking. who told them that fib?
 
GRA said:
Stoaty said:
GRA said:
Nissan has said on numerous occasions that they weren't going to use TMS. OTOH, the e-NV200 will apparently have some cooling for QC: http://insideevs.com/heres-nissan-employs-active-air-cooling-e-nv200-battery-pack/
I don't see anything about Leaf 2.0 not using a TMS. The lack of a TMS isn't working out very well for the Lizard battery based on reports here. Until information is released on Leaf 2.0, we don't know what Nissan will do. The rest is speculation.
Informed speculation - Nissan has been pretty adamant that they weren't going to use a TMS. It would be a 180 for them to say now that they've decided to use one (even though they almost certainly need it).

To play devil's advocate here, it wouldn't make sense for Nissan to announce they are going to use it in the Leaf 2. There are many Leaf buyers who aren't aware of the hot-weather issues. Announcing a TMS could undermine confidence in their current product (i.e., if they decided they need this afterall, what am I getting into with buying a 2016 without TMS?).

IMHO, it would make the most business sense for Nissan to slip a TMS into the Leaf 2 as quietly as possible. That includes not really advertising it in 2017 when the car is (presumably) in dealers' lots.

I'm not saying that I think this is what is happening, only that it is one possibility.

I'm curious to see what they do for Leaf 2.0, but frankly it's not a deal breaker for me either way. My leaf is holding up OKish after almost 4 years (single bar lost). It's right about on track to be at 80% after 5 years, which is frankly better than I had expected in 2012.
 
Nissan has long contended that active TMS was not part of their game plan for "standard" options. Obviously this left nearly everything still on the table. They also hinted that they were looking into basic ventilation options and that the newer technology would only have a fraction of the heat issues due to lower resistance, larger capacity resulting in lower overall strain on the pack, etc.

IOW; nothing specific was said which means getting all bent out of shape now over something that wont be here for 12-18 months is a bit strange...
 
Leaf 1***********************Lizard 2011 SL New Battery 1/20/2016********************************************************


Some previous stats for this car are in thread POST YOUR BATTERY DEGRADATION RESULTS on page 42 that lead up to the new battery.

Don't expect to drop from 100% SOH for 6ish months (July-Aug) then expect 11% loss for 1st year.

2/12/2016-------------------------------------------------------

AHr 66.14
SOC 93.2%
SOH 100%
Hx 100.19%
394.59V
odo 40,060 mi
GIDs 279
21.6 kWh
22 QC & 1466 L1/L2

Edit for 3/15/2016++++++++++++++++++++++++++

AHr 66.14
SOC 93.8%
SOH 100%
Hx 102.36%
394.5V
odo 41,204 mi
GIDs 282
21.9 kWh
22 QC 1542 L1/L2

Edit for 5/6/2016......................................................

AHr 66.14
SOC 93.8%
SOH 100%
Hx 101.78%
394.59V
odo 43,222 mi
GIDs 281
21.8 kWh
25 QC 1664 L1/L2


Edit for 6/21/16

AHr 65.91
SOC 91.5%
SOH 100%
Hx 98.51%
394.55V
odo 44,798 mi
GIDs 271
21.5 kWh
25 QC 1778 L1/L2
Temp 109 degrees


Edit for 7/17/16

AHr 64.18
SOC 90.4
SOH 100%
Hx 96.45
394.39V
odo 45,588 mi
GIDs 272
21.1 kWh
Temp 104.3 degrees



Leaf 1 continues to be driven the same average mileage as before.



Leaf 2************************Lizard 2011 SL New Battery 12/18/2014******************************************************


Some previous stats for this car are in thread Re: 2015: Battery Data Report @ 100% Charge page 23, 28 and the Re: The Battery Replacement on page 50.



13.5 months old (Lizard) and did not drop from 100% SOH till 6ish months old. Expect to be at 8 bars in June-July 2017 @ 2.6 years
Car has dropped an average of 2% per month after burning through initial headroom. Guestimate will be at 11 bars in (June-July).

2/12/2016------------------------------------------------

AHr 55.65
SOC 89.3%
SOH 87%
Hx 80.88%
393.82V
odo 30,698 mi
GIDs 233
18.1 kWh
40 QC & 1883 L1/L2

Edit 3/15/2016+++++++++++++++++++++++

AHr 56.75
SOC 90.3%
SOH 88%
Hx 83.29%
394.30V
odo 31,208 mi
GIDs 241
18.7 kWh
40 QC & 1918 L1/L2

Edit 5/6/2016=======================

AHr 57.92
SOC 90.8%
SOH 90%
Hx 85.65%
394.30V
odo 31.671 mi
GIDs 247
19.1 kWh
40 QC 1954 L1/L2

Edit 6/21/2016======================

AHr 58.51
SOC 86.9%
SOH 91%
Hx 86.84%
392.46V
odo 32,187 mi
GIDs 237
18.4 kWh
41 QC 1992 L1/L2

Edit 7/17/16-------------------------------------------

AHr 58.47
SOC 87%
SOH 91%
Hx 86.75%
393.03V
odo 32.270 mi
GIDs 239
18.5 kWh



Since Leaf 2 is rising in SOH since February, guestimates will now be somewhat off. I have not been putting much mileage on the car the last few months and may not the rest of the summer.
 
it is almost as if there is a secret stash hidden at the top of the capacity or it is normal for a battery to lose capacity in chunks? i think not. Both LEAFs I had did the same thing naturally to a much lesser degree and it was closer to 16-20 months before any degradation set in...
 
Evoforce said:
Leaf 1***********************Lizard 2011 SL New Battery 1/20/2016********************************************************

Leaf 2************************Lizard 2011 SL New Battery 12/18/2014*****************************************************
Are you sure they both have the same 2015 "Lizard" packs? Could be that the earlier one got a 2014 pack.
 
^ ^ ^ I've been wondering that same thing all along! Only time will reveal the true answer (I could say the same for my new pack).
 
fooljoe said:
Evoforce said:
Leaf 1***********************Lizard 2011 SL New Battery 1/20/2016********************************************************

Leaf 2************************Lizard 2011 SL New Battery 12/18/2014*****************************************************
Are you sure they both have the same 2015 "Lizard" packs? Could be that the earlier one got a 2014 pack.

It is the lizard pack. It has the correct part number and the special brackets for the install. Whether any of us like it or not (believe me I don't) it is absolutely a lizard pack. Now... I haven't cracked it open to look at the modules.
 
Evoforce said:
It is the lizard pack. It has the correct part number and the special brackets for the install. Whether any of us like it or not (believe me I don't) it is absolutely a lizard pack. Now... I haven't cracked it open to look at the modules.
Lizard and non-lizard packs look exactly the same. '11-12 packs look different than '13+ 24 kWh packs which also look different than '16+ 30 kWh packs.
 
drees said:
Evoforce said:
It is the lizard pack. It has the correct part number and the special brackets for the install. Whether any of us like it or not (believe me I don't) it is absolutely a lizard pack. Now... I haven't cracked it open to look at the modules.
Lizard and non-lizard packs look exactly the same. '11-12 packs look different than '13+ 24 kWh packs which also look different than '16+ 30 kWh packs.

The cracking open the pack was meant to be tongue in cheek... :)
 
drees said:
Evoforce said:
It is the lizard pack. It has the correct part number and the special brackets for the install. Whether any of us like it or not (believe me I don't) it is absolutely a lizard pack. Now... I haven't cracked it open to look at the modules.
Lizard and non-lizard packs look exactly the same. '11-12 packs look different than '13+ 24 kWh packs which also look different than '16+ 30 kWh packs.
So having the brackets is meaningless, but is there any information that can be gleaned from the part number or would that be the same as well? How can we tell for sure that it's a lizard pack if the part number's the same, other than taking Nissan's word for it?
 
fooljoe said:
drees said:
Evoforce said:
It is the lizard pack. It has the correct part number and the special brackets for the install. Whether any of us like it or not (believe me I don't) it is absolutely a lizard pack. Now... I haven't cracked it open to look at the modules.
Lizard and non-lizard packs look exactly the same. '11-12 packs look different than '13+ 24 kWh packs which also look different than '16+ 30 kWh packs.
So having the brackets is meaningless, but is there any information that can be gleaned from the part number or would that be the same as well? How can we tell for sure that it's a lizard pack if the part number's the same, other than taking Nissan's word for it?

I can tell you that 14 months ago and the other car battery a month ago, Nissan said that the two respective batteries replaced were Lizard batteries. Both of them are part number 295B03NF9E. If Nissan has been lying about any or all of it, how would we know? I can tell everyone for certain that the supposedly more heat tolerant battery is not working in Arizona. So was it all a scam? I have taken them at their word. I don't think so... but if it were ever found out to be a scam there would be hell to pay.

Are the part numbers for 13-15 and 16 S the same part number with the exception of cold weather designation, I don't know. But we were assured that they both were of 2015 vintage, more "heat tolerant" batteries, regardless of anything else. So at least in hotter climates, 295B03NF9E manufactured for 2015 Leafs with "Heat Tolerance", lacks sufficient durability and is performing just like the 2011 battery.
 
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