100 Mile Club, 200 km, 300 km, 200 Mile Club (24kWh LEAF)

GRA said:

...a car with a battery that makes it essentially a 3 year throwaway.

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Further evidence that long-term ICE dependence may cause cognitive decline...?

Back on-topic, still no problem for me to make 100+ mile trips in my LEAF in my regular capacity tests, using only the ~88% (from "100%" to ~VLBW) of my total ("100%" to turtle) available capacity, when not restricted by low ambient and battery pack temperatures.

My ~four year old LEAF's first 100+ mile trip of the season was on 4/19/15 when I traveled 102.9 odometer miles, and (more accurately) ~103.4 miles, requiring ~6800 ft. total ascent and descent, as calculated by Google maps, ending at ~VLBW.

I'll eventually write up a more complete update to my last post here:

edatoakrun (page 75) Four more 100+ mile trips since my last posting last Spring on p 71.

That makes 22 total 100+ mile-on-an-"100%"-charge trips on my LEAF (not including the multiple 100+ mile trips utilizing net descent) the last eight made after losing capacity bar 12 last August...

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4/19/15 was my last 100+ mile trip with 11 battery bars, as I finally lost the 11th bar ~ 2 weeks ago, during a trip to the Bay area. No problems with range on that trip either, and I never even saw the VLBW.

So, barring unforeseen circumstances, my next 100+ mile drive will be the first from my 10 bar battery.

edatoakrun said:

GRA said:

...a car with a battery that makes it essentially a 3 year throwaway.

Click to expand...

Further evidence that long-term ICE dependence may cause cognitive decline...? <snip>

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More like the recognition by many former LEAF owners (plus those on their second one) that 3 years is all they can expect the car to meet the transport needs they bought it for, and that the remaining range is so low that the used value is non-existent for most people, as shown by the LEAF having the worst depreciation of any car currently sold in the U.S. (and by Nissan offering up to $5,000 cash for lease buyouts, so they don't have to take the car back).

My best drive, so far:



Corrected for tires, that is ~111 miles. It is charging now, and the dash said ~5.6miles/kWh. This was driving four full days this week: 4 commutes to work, and four trips taking my kids over to the school. Warm weather is very nice (though it was pretty chilly on some of the mornings). Today I drove in Eco - I started out this morning with 26 miles showing, which is exactly the round trip to work. Oddly, the number hit 9 miles, and then changed to 3 flashing dashes - not very helpful at the most important time. The picture didn't catch the dashes.

Edit: the charge was 23.0kWh, so the consumption was ~207.24Wh/mile, which is slightly higher than the 206.96 I had on the previous 100+ mile drive.

This is my seventh drive over 100 miles, between our e-Golf (4) and our Leaf (3).

Hurray! Thanks to warming weather, a challenging gap between chargers, and Tony's mileage chart, I pulled a 105 mile trip and ended with 13%SOC remaining. My fallback plan was to alter route at 50% point if needed. When I reached that point with 47%SOC, I decided to push through with further reduced speeds getting easier as the traffic decreased after 8PM. With much of the last half at 35MPH, she reports 6.4mi/kWh for the journey from Mason City IA, to Ames IA.

kikngas said:

Hurray! Thanks to warming weather, a challenging gap between chargers, and Tony's mileage chart, I pulled a 105 mile trip and ended with 13%SOC remaining. My fallback plan was to alter route at 50% point if needed. When I reached that point with 47%SOC, I decided to push through with further reduced speeds getting easier as the traffic decreased after 8PM. With much of the last half at 35MPH, she reports 6.4mi/kWh for the journey from Mason City IA, to Ames IA.

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You should have kept going for another 20 miles so you could have joined the 200km club. With 13% SOC you should have had plenty to complete the range. If it were me, I would have just continued until it was completely empty just to see how many miles I could get.

Good Job!!!

I'm going to wait for the MY16

evnow said:

I'm going to wait for the MY16

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No fair!

I think I've read all of the pertinent information, but still am not sure if the answer is here. The instance and question: Recently on a long highway trip about 180 km, with a 30 minute stop to top up to 90%, I made it home with a 300' climb about 3 km from home. I got home with no bars, no percent, three dashes and no turtle. Do the three dashes go to 2 dashes, then 1 dash before the turtle? How close was I to being stranded? How much range did I have left? Next time, I'll stop off at the CHAdeMO top up to 85%, then move to the L2 till I'm 100%. The CHAdeMO stopped at 85% with the temperature error message.

Scoutniagara said:

I think I've read all of the pertinent information, but still am not sure if the answer is here. The instance and question: Recently on a long highway trip about 180 km, with a 30 minute stop to top up to 90%, I made it home with a 300' climb about 3 km from home. I got home with no bars, no percent, three dashes and no turtle. Do the three dashes go to 2 dashes, then 1 dash before the turtle? How close was I to being stranded? How much range did I have left? Next time, I'll stop off at the CHAdeMO top up to 85%, then move to the L2 till I'm 100%. The CHAdeMO stopped at 85% with the temperature error message.

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No, the three dashes remain until the car turtles or shuts down.

A good way to estimate the range left is to reset a trip meter at Low Battery Warning (LBW: flashing GOM number). Then when you hit Very Low Battery Warning (VLBW: flashing ---) you have about half that distance left until turtle.

LBW happens at 49 Gids (about 3.9 kWh), VLBW happens at 24 Gids (about 1.9 kWh) and turtle should happen in the 4-7 Gid range (about 0.3 to 0.6 kWh); turtle varies with battery balancing and other characteristics.

I use 10 Gids as the lower limit of my comfort zone. So, LBW to VLBW is 2 kWh and VLBW to 10 Gids is a bit more than 1 kWh. If you are getting 6.5 km/kWh you ought to be able to go 13 km from LBW to VLBW and about 6.5 km from VLBW to 10-12 Gids, or a bit more to turtle. A climb up a hill, as you describe, will knock those numbers down somewhat.

If you want more detailed information about using the lower end of the battery you should consider an aftermarket meter, such as Leaf Spy. Then you will have more accurate information about "how much is left" and have increased comfort in using all of the battery.

dgpcolorado said:

Scoutniagara said:

I think I've read all of the pertinent information, but still am not sure if the answer is here. The instance and question: Recently on a long highway trip about 180 km, with a 30 minute stop to top up to 90%, I made it home with a 300' climb about 3 km from home. I got home with no bars, no percent, three dashes and no turtle. Do the three dashes go to 2 dashes, then 1 dash before the turtle? How close was I to being stranded? How much range did I have left? Next time, I'll stop off at the CHAdeMO top up to 85%, then move to the L2 till I'm 100%. The CHAdeMO stopped at 85% with the temperature error message.

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No, the three dashes remain until the car turtles or shuts down.

A good way to estimate the range left is to reset a trip meter at Low Battery Warning (LBW: flashing GOM number). Then when you hit Very Low Battery Warning (VLBW: flashing ---) you have about half that distance left until turtle.

LBW happens at 49 Gids (about 3.9 kWh), VLBW happens at 24 Gids (about 1.9 kWh) and turtle should happen in the 4-7 Gid range (about 0.3 to 0.6 kWh); turtle varies with battery balancing and other characteristics.

I use 10 Gids as the lower limit of my comfort zone. So, LBW to VLBW is 2 kWh and VLBW to 10 Gids is a bit more than 1 kWh. If you are getting 6.5 km/kWh you ought to be able to go 13 km from LBW to VLBW and about 6.5 km from VLBW to 10-12 Gids, or a bit more to turtle. A climb up a hill, as you describe, will knock those numbers down somewhat.

If you want more detailed information about using the lower end of the battery you should consider an aftermarket meter, such as Leaf Spy. Then you will have more accurate information about "how much is left" and have increased comfort in using all of the battery.

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You must have edited from miles/kWh to km/kWh from original post, anyway not to be off topic see my post from 1 year ago: LBW to turtle 42.5 km http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=17164 . I was not equipped with Leaf Spy at that time but the mileage is correct, the accumulated charge was read off the evse so I know now that it was less at the battery. My leaf is a 13 and Scoutniagara's looks like a 14, bottom end is larger I think in later models. Lithy is now 2 (and finally paid for) so I am due for another turtle run within a few weeks to check. Will post results on a separate thread at that time.

ElectricEddy said:

You must have edited from miles/kWh to km/kWh from original post, anyway not to be off topic see my post from 1 year ago: LBW to turtle 42.5 km http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=17164 . I was not equipped with Leaf Spy at that time but the mileage is correct, the accumulated charge was read off the evse so I know now that it was less at the battery. My leaf is a 13 and Scoutniagara's looks like a 14, bottom end is larger I think in later models. Lithy is now 2 (and finally paid for) so I am due for another turtle run within a few weeks to check. Will post results on a separate thread at that time.

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Yes, I did change the miles to km since the OP had used km. I am comfortable with either.

To the best of my knowledge, LBW and VLBW still come at 49 and 24 Gids, respectively, on the newer LEAFs. If anyone with a meter has different data, that would be useful to know. It is possible that even if the Gids are the same Nissan has changed the value of each one, although I would guess that it is unlikely. The nominal value of a Gid on older cars is 80 Wh, with about 75 Wh usable. If you are getting unexpectedly large ranges between LBW and turtle, it is possible that some of those values have changed. But it is worth noting that one often drives slowly when the battery is low and that drastically increases efficiency/range. 50 km/hr is very slow and at a 20ºC temperature would be expected to be upwards of 10.5 km/kWh. In warmer weather it would be even higher than that. By contrast, the rough 6.5 km/kWh I used would be at around 95 km/hr at 20º (or even faster in warmer temperatures).

The point I am trying to make is that your 42 km from LBW to turtle is quite reasonable without assuming any unusually large portion of the battery below LBW in newer LEAFs. All LEAFs have a lot of battery below LBW, presumably to prevent drivers from being stranded. The problem is when people get nervous about driving below LBW and, in effect, leave a lot of their range unused (and then complain about it!). That isn't a problem for you, since you have been experimenting with the lower part of the battery usage.

Some of us here highly recommend that all new LEAFers drive their cars to below VLBW to get comfortable with using the lower part of the battery charge.

It is worth pointing out that as the LEAF battery ages, the LBW and VLBW warnings remain at fixed charge levels. That means that an increasing percentage of the battery capacity is below LBW as the battery degrades. For those unwilling to go below LBW that means that their range seems to drop more quickly than it really has (sometimes leading to angry or dismayed posts about it here at MNL).

Scoutniagara said:

I think I've read all of the pertinent information, but still am not sure if the answer is here. The instance and question: Recently on a long highway trip about 180 km, with a 30 minute stop to top up to 90%, I made it home with a 300' climb about 3 km from home. I got home with no bars, no percent, three dashes and no turtle. Do the three dashes go to 2 dashes, then 1 dash before the turtle? How close was I to being stranded? How much range did I have left? Next time, I'll stop off at the CHAdeMO top up to 85%, then move to the L2 till I'm 100%. The CHAdeMO stopped at 85% with the temperature error message.

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I would assume you're using the Nissan Canada QC then climbing the Niagara escarpment near home? If so your drive is very close to mine. I work at the airport and live in Ancaster. I've noticed users saying the Nissan Canada machine is cutting out with the warning but it's worked fine for me the last 2 days. I'll give you a few recommendations. First if time is tight use the Mitsubishi unit around the corner, it's a 50 kW unit vs the 44 kW at Nissan. Plugshare says it's only M-F but it's been left on overnight/weekends many times but don't be surprised if it's turned off.

Only charge to about 90% then leave. Any charge after that is slower. You're better off driving and stopping at Burlington Nissan (24hr access, right off the highway) and using the L2 there. You'll have plenty of juice to make it and by the time you get there you can charge at the L2 at the full speed (3.3 or 6.6 depending on your model).

By making 2 stops that are the same length of 1 stop to 100% you will actually get more usable energy. You may even get more usable energy with less time stopped.

If my guess of your location/route scout"Niagara" is wrong the same still applies if you leave the QC at less than 90% and have another L2 close to your route later.

Finally had the patience to do the 120 miles (though not the true 124 mile / 200K). Spend the last 30 miles at 25 mph, else It was just carful driving, including 30 miles on the freeway at 58-62mph.


https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxoQsFOJW1j3MmhUU0gyckd1LWNxeGd1R1hmVnUxbFlFMmdV/view?usp=sharing

It is a little unnerving once the % SOC goes to dashes.

Almost certainly, you had 5 or more miles remaining when that picture was taken, so you should have gone for it.

How can "one" be so sure? You can see in the picture that there is one long battery capacity bar remaining, and that usually disappears at or near 1 kWh remaining. Driving at 25mph, you should be able to eke out 5 miles from one kWh. It's not so unnerving driving with dashes after you've done it a few times and know what to look for.

I suspect that most drivers trying to join these clubs have the LeafSpy app and I assume that you do not. The app (for smartphones) takes even more of the mystery out of how much juice remains in your battery after the dashes appear, so for this and many other reasons, LeafSpy is highly recommended.

Kudos on the 120, regardless!

ps. Technically, the one picture you provide doesn't "prove" anything; but then again, it's difficult for anyone here to really prove that they joined whatever club without sneaking a little juice in the mid-way through the journey. It's the LEAF-owners' honor system here, baby! :lol:

DougWantsALeaf said:

Finally had the patience to do the 120 miles (though not the true 124 mile / 200K). Spend the last 30 miles at 25 mph, else It was just carful driving, including 30 miles on the freeway at 58-62mph.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxoQsFOJW1j3MmhUU0gyckd1LWNxeGd1R1hmVnUxbFlFMmdV/view?usp=sharing

It is a little unnerving once the % SOC goes to dashes.

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I have leaf spy. I don't use it much anymore. When taking the lead in once, I forgot to remove the obdii port device, and the dealership claimed it was the source of the issue (12v battery light on consistently). Since I generally keep it out.

My new personal best:



Please note, I don't want to just keep driving to push it to the limit. This drive was FOUR days of commuting and a few errands, and I arrived home last night, and charged it.

Nice. What year leaf?

What are your max gids?

Mine is now about 250

Charged last night on L1 to 98% then unplugged. Somehow it went up to 100% by the time I started driving. Regardless, was able to get 104 miles on that charge today. 2015 S with QC. 7 months old with almost 6k miles.

Drowe 200km today, first time. Started and ended at the same location.
Starting GIDs 281(98,9%) and 97,3 SOC (recently i saw 284GIDs but not now when its warmer)

Outside temp 20 celcius. Battery start temp 21,1. At end 24,5

Energy economy 9,8kwh/100km (very near 9,9) after 200km.
GIDs at finish 6(2.1%) 0.4kwh remain. 5.1% SOC average mV 3,134(271diff)
Not turtle and all bubbles left, but very near.
Seems like the usable battery kwh is 20.
Have 17" wheels and the trip meter shows 3% less than my leaf with 16" wheels, so with 16" wheels the trip meter had read 206km?!

Well, I drove 100 miles on a charge again.

This time not planned. Left this afternoon on a 30 mile errand, and realized as I was driving away that I had about 28% left, and 70 miles since the last recharge. So I went for it.





Low battery warning about at the far end of the trip, and very low battery warning about a mile from home. Had to drive a few tenths extra to get the full 100 miles.